IGN Discusses why Shenmue 3’s ending is a big disappointment

Hey.. I mean the article isn't wrong..
 
honestly, they are totally right this time, I am truely disappointed from Suzuki on this point
 
I have a different view on the ending. I think they've kind of missed the point a little. After really settling with it...I kind of like the fact that it is so anti climactic. And there's a reason why I feel this way....but maybe I'll save it for a forum post (or an article on my blog)

But yeah, the more I think about this game, the more I realise there is a bit of a genius to it...but as it tends to be with genius, it’s part brilliance and part frustration...I think I've kind of come around to really like the bummer ending this game has for reasons that I will go into at some point.

Yeah, the reveal of Niao Sun is disappointing...to say the least...it could have been done better. But as for the very ending...I actually kind of like the fact that it's a bit of a bummer ending. (I expected it to be a bummer ending anyways)

Arguably, the biggest plot development is when Ryo acquires the Phoenix Mirror at the end of the first Shenmue – it doesn’t really do anything, but is important for reasons that are still unclear. Shenmue 3 delves into the creation of the mirrors, along with the relationship between Ryo’s father and Lan Di’s father, Sunming Zhao. Those revelations have little to do with the larger conflict between Ryo and Lan Di, however, which is partly why the ending of Shenmue 3 is so disappointing – though that isn’t the only reason, to be sure.
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What? Are they kidding me? It has EVERYTHING to do with it. The problem is we're still waiting for answers as to what REALLY happened between Iwao and Sunming...but it has EVERYTHING to do with it. The creation of the mirrors has everything to do with it.

By the end of it, we do some find out some vital clues that really do bring into question what exactly happened...Ryo and Lan Di are the same. They're both short sighted and blinded by their hatred for the exact same reason. The unjust death of their father (or presumably unjust in the case of Sunming since we don't have full details.) It has everything to do with it.

Fair point of the Niao Sun aspect being kind of weak as a reveal though.
 
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I don’t have a problem with the ending. I do feel it was rushed though. In terms of circumstances I think the ending has a better cliffhanger than 1 or 2,

Lan Di betrayed, ryo no longer has the mirror, ryo not strong enough to fight lan Di yet. Ren, shenhua and ryo together for the story to go on as a trio.

It’s just executed badly.

If there was more time to get to know li Feng the niao sun twist would have better weight, all it needed was the fortified castle area to also be a proper sequence not 30 minutes.

If there is a fourth I do think people’s problems won’t be so bad.
 
Try Asking Sumiya San said:
If there was more time to get to know li Feng the niao sun twist would have better weight, all it needed was the fortified castle area to also be a proper sequence not 30 minutes.
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I've been thinking about this non stop since beating it...I think the thing about these games is that they are so focused on putting you in Ryo's shoes and having you see EVERYTHING from his perspective that sometimes other characters' development gets lost. Unless they're directly interacting with Ryo, you really don't get see them from their perspective.

For instance, would you have known that Joy knew Master Chen if you hadn't have talked to her? Never came up once in the main plot...but that connection was there and it was only brought up through direct conversation with her. Or how about Nozomi moving to Canada? That whole sub plot kinda goes buried if you don’t interact with her personally in the first game.

This whole world is seen through Ryo's eyes and is so concerned with putting the player in Ryo's shoes the entire way. It's why I say Ryo is somewhere in between silent protagonist and actual fleshed out protagonist. Hence why the conversations with Shenhua are so interesting - because it allows the player to shape their own version of Ryo with the answers they pick.

Like you can't exactly do a cut away to Lan Di and Niao Sun interacting because the entire series is seen primarily through Ryo's eyes. Yes, there are moments in II where we see Xiuying remember her brother, but it's within an interaction with Ryo...it's not something that is happening third party. I think that's the one time the series has cheated perspectives. Well maybe also the cut scene in this game with Niao Sun lighting the fires is another moment of cheating the perspective, but I really can’t think of any other moments like that in all three games besides the two I just mentioned. Maybe this is why the original character perspective system for III could have been interesting?

This is where I think the character development with Niao Sun got lost and why I think, in order for it to work, they needed to have Niao Sun interacting with Ryo directly...like maybe goading or manipulating him a little. But then again, considering how uninterested in women Ryo seems to be (with exception of Xiuying who he called beautiful — BAE Waifu confirmed! :D) maybe her charms wouldn't have any effect ;) :D .

The Niao Sun plot twist is really under developed and I think the key problem comes from the fact that we're so within Ryo's perspective throughout the entire game that we never got a chance to find out who she was since there was never a real strong narrative interaction between them.

As I've said elsewhere, story isn't this games problem. The story is structurally fine and what this chapter is trying to be is solid at best. It's the character development that got lost. The motivations for why this is all happening is what got lost here. We don't know why Niao Sun is doing what she is doing other than she's looking for power within the Chi You Men. And that I think is the problem with III. It's not the story, it's the characters motivations and development that got lost.
 
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danielmann861 said:
Yeah, the reveal of Niao Sun is disappointing...to say the least...it could have been done better. But as for the very ending...I actually kind of like the fact that it's a bit of a bummer ending. (I expected it to be a bummer ending anyways)
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I overall agree with you. I don't think the ending is as bad as it's made out to be, particularly as I've had nearly a week now to digest it and get over the initial disappointment. Niao Sun handling aside I like how Lan Di was dealt with and the Phoenix mirror angle is very interesting.

My only concern is if 3 came out in 2003/2004, it wouldn't have been so bad because people would think "well I guess we'll find out about X Y and Z" in 4. There would have been an expectation of 4. I think though that 3 has come out 18 years on and people were desperate for answers, along with the whole uncertainty of whether we'll ever see 4, 5, etc.

The pacing of the story is what I'm trying to get at, and whether 3 could afford a slow/lack of story development when the fate of the series is so uncertain.
 
sheeponfire said:
I overall agree with you. I don't think the ending is as bad as it's made out to be, particularly as I've had nearly a week now to digest it and get over the initial disappointment. Niao Sun handling aside I like how Lan Di was dealt with and the Phoenix mirror angle is very interesting.

My only concern is if 3 came out in 2003/2004, it wouldn't have been so bad because people would think "well I guess we'll find out about X Y and Z" in 4. There would have been an expectation of 4. I think though that 3 has come out 18 years on and people were desperate for answers, along with the whole uncertainty of whether we'll ever see 4, 5, etc.

The pacing of the story is what I'm trying to get at, and whether 3 could afford a slow/lack of story development when the fate of the series is so uncertain.
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No I hear you...and it is a very reasonable concern considering we waited 18 years for a game that was never guaranteed. I totally hear those people and share that fear going forward too.

On the one hand, I applaud Yu for sticking to his crazy grand vision. On the other, I look at him and think “this might be your last chance, Yu. Maybe take it while you have it?”

But I think I ultimately respect the fact that he is sticking to his guns. I’d rather an artist stick to their vision and not compromise.
 
it's a clickbait from IGN. I won't open it :)
 
There's nothing to do with "people waiting 18 for answers". Just don't. Nor wanting to Shenmue 3 to be the last one and wrap all the things up. I'ts about storytelling. Pretty much what Danielman861 said. The way they told the story, is a complete mess for me. I know one thing. For me, we're done with the series, for this major let down with Shen3. For others, it's not so bad and we gona get another game, with better storytteling and plot. I hope i'm wrong in this one.

The ign article hits the nail.
 
danielmann861 said:
I have a different view on the ending. I think they've kind of missed the point a little. After really settling with it...I kind of like the fact that it is so anti climactic. And there's a reason why I feel this way....but maybe I'll save it for a forum post (or an article on my blog)

But yeah, the more I think about this game, the more I realise there is a bit of a genius to it...but as it tends to be with genius, it’s part brilliance and part frustration...I think I've kind of come around to really like the bummer ending this game has for reasons that I will go into at some point.

Yeah, the reveal of Niao Sun is disappointing...to say the least...it could have been done better. But as for the very ending...I actually kind of like the fact that it's a bit of a bummer ending. (I expected it to be a bummer ending anyways)



What? Are they kidding me? It has EVERYTHING to do with it. The problem is we're still waiting for answers as to what REALLY happened between Iwao and Sunming...but it has EVERYTHING to do with it. The creation of the mirrors has everything to do with it.

By the end of it, we do some find out some vital clues that really do bring into question what exactly happened...Ryo and Lan Di are the same. They're both short sighted and blinded by their hatred for the exact same reason. The unjust death of their father (or presumably unjust in the case of Sunming since we don't have full details.) It has everything to do with it.

Fair point of the Niao Sun aspect being kind of weak as a reveal though.
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I dont trust IGN

If Shenmue 2 had been made now instead of 2001 and had the ending it had with Lan Di not even fighting Ryo but escaping in a helicopter, and the last few hours of you running through Guilin forests with Shenhua, along with them calmly talking at her house and ending with them searching for items in a cave, they'd be ripping it a new a hole just like they are here.
 
Crimson said:
it's a clickbait from IGN. I won't open it :)
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I agree with the premise of the article, but they do seem to be publishing these sort of click-baity articles once every couple of weeks. Obviously the purpose is to get riled up fans who were disappointed to comment, fans who want to defend the game to comment, "I told you so" gamers to comment, "STEAM 4EVA!!@!" gamers to comment, and so on. I mean, what's the point? You mentioned the weak story in your review, why does it need its own headline? Why is this MAJOR NEWS?

It also sucks that there are still people playing the game and players who might not get to start playing until xmas getting these negative thoughts in the back of their head about the ending before they get to play it. It's similar to how we want to keep our thoughts on the ending to S3 in the spoiler forum. In the non-spoiler forum a lot of people were mentioning that the last hour of the game was weak, so during my playthrough I was just waiting until "that" showed up. The same thing happened to me with Mass Effect 3 - I wasn't able to play the game until a few weeks after launch, but before then the negative wave went out about the ending, article headlines and all.
 
Tomato Convenience Store said:
I agree with the premise of the article, but they do seem to be publishing these sort of click-baity articles once every couple of weeks. Obviously the purpose is to get riled up fans who were disappointed to comment, fans who want to defend the game to comment, "I told you so" gamers to comment, "STEAM 4EVA!!@!" gamers to comment, and so on. I mean, what's the point? You mentioned the weak story in your review, why does it need its own headline? Why is this MAJOR NEWS?

It also sucks that there are still people playing the game and players who might not get to start playing until xmas getting these negative thoughts in the back of their head about the ending before they get to play it. It's similar to how we want to keep our thoughts on the ending to S3 in the spoiler forum. In the non-spoiler forum a lot of people were mentioning that the last hour of the game was weak, so during my playthrough I was just waiting until "that" showed up. The same thing happened to me with Mass Effect 3 - I wasn't able to play the game until a few weeks after launch, but before then the negative wave went out about the ending, article headlines and all.
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IGN: "hey gamers that may not have played the game or finished it yet, the ending sucks and here's why!" :rolleyes:
 
danielmann861 said:
By the end of it, we do some find out some vital clues that really do bring into question what exactly happened...Ryo and Lan Di are the same. They're both short sighted and blinded by their hatred for the exact same reason. The unjust death of their father (or presumably unjust in the case of Sunming since we don't have full details.)
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Yuanda Zhu is facepalming at this game.
He said all this in Shenmue 2 but Shenmue 3 insists on repeating it over and over again.
 
gladias9 said:
Yuanda Zhu is facepalming at this game.
He said all this in Shenmue 2 but Shenmue 3 insists on repeating it over and over again.
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Oh I must have missed the part where Yuanda Zhu said that Sunming was interested in protecting the mirrors and that he died of mysterious causes and that the Chi You Men took Lan Di (suggesting that maybe, just maybe Iwao didn't kill him at all and this is all orchestrated by the Chi You Men).

Oh no wait, Yuanda Zhu never any of that said...all Yuanda Zhu said was that the mirrors combined were a map and that Iwao and Sunming were friends and that Iwao supposedly killed Sunming.

We actually did find out something new from Yuan...albeit minimal information...we still found out something new in SIII. But I love that people pretend we still didn't learn anything new and we just got the info...we did get something new.

Sure, it's about as much as we found out from Yuanda Zhu but it was something new that Yuanda Zhu didn't say.
 
Oh, I just love bread crumbs.
I can nibble on them all day long and by the end it feels like I haven't even eaten anything at all.
 
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