IGN: Yu Suzuki Talks Shenmue 4, Air Twister, and 40 Years of Game Development

[Taarabt]

Most we have heard about Shenmue in years so it can only be a good thing it’s being mentioned at least

Would love a Shenmue 0

 

[Tosh]

Not that i want RGG Studio to make a Shenmue game,
but one thing that i think is kind of weird in these discussions
is how theres always this topic about the random and over the top Yakuza fights wouldnt fit the world of Shenmue.
But ... why do we even think about that?

Like if there would be a official cooperation between RGG Studio and Suzuki
that would mean that Suzuki would provide the story and to make sure that everyone in the team gets what its about.
Why would he agree to make a RGG Studio Yakuza game in the universe of Shenmue?
Why would Sega greenlight that idea?
With RGG Studio on board, this would be a official Sega game. Funded by Sega.
So why would Sega greenlight such a expensive project, only to make it another Yakuza game
and piss everyone off? Risk like 30-40 mil USD ... for what? That doesnt make sense.

So i'm 101% sure that this topic about random street fights for example wouldnt even be a thing
because the team knows that this is not Yakuza.
If the team doesnt include this stuff, then it wont exist in the game.
They have the same kind of developer team as any other studio,
with people working on the AI, cutscenes, design, whatever
and they will do whatever the project managers tell them to do.

So if nobody is telling them to include random street thugs that attack Ryo every 3 minutes,
then they wont include that. If they are being told to keep the story and cutscene tone serious,
then they will keep a serious tone.

"Restarting it" like Yakuza 0, doesnt mean that they are forced to include Yakuza elements in Shenmue.
Suzuki is simply talking about a nice, fresh and modern starting point for new players.
A way to get more people on board, to get more players to talk about Shenmue.
Something that Shenmue 3 didnt provide.

 

[Zoyous]

I just don't think Yu Suzuki is speaking in code or hinting this or that. When he said he didn't know why 110 Industries would be saying anything about Shenmue, that's just exactly what he meant. Essentially, 'they invited me to do an interview and that's what I did.' I just never got the apple and banana 'symbolism.' All along I think he's been pretty clear that IF he gets the chance to continue the series, he will. Not like, 'and guess what, we've been working on it all along' or secretly collaborating with this or that publisher. It just seems to me like if you're not looking for hidden meanings or sly clues, he's clearly saying that it's not currently in the works but if he gets the opportunity it will be.

 

[bcdcdude]

Great interview and lovely to know that he hasn't forgotten about Shenmue. Let's not forget that Suzuki is of an era where you had to be tight lipped (it's shocking how much gets leaked nowadays). As mentioned prior, the first indication that Shemue III could be a reality was THE DAY BEFORE it was announced!

Not sure how I feel about a Shenmue 0; Shenmue 4 must be the priority. However, I don't object to playable stuff in Shenmue 4 that predates Shenmue 1 - that would be exciting!

It's a pipe dream, but a great way to get new people on board who haven't played the games before would be to have Shenmue the Anime supplied with the game (Xbox Shenmue II did a similar thing with Shenmue the Movie on DVD)

It's also good to see websites pick up on this too; it keeps Shenmue in the public consciousness.

https://www.eurogamer.net/shenmue-creator-has-considered-yakuza-0-style-prequel-to-continue-series

The Next Shenmue Could Potentially Be a Prequel Story

Back in time

www.pushsquare.com

 

[thedemon1238]

The more time goes by, the more I think Shenmue 0 would be a mistake. I know all true fans are united under the idea of a 4th game. If they make Zero, it means it won't be for the fans. Just another attempt to expand the audience.

I'm not saying that seeing Yokosuka in an Unreal engine doesn't sound appealing, but that would be a side story. Ryo practices karate and goes to school. It makes no sense for anything major to happen in such game.

Yakuza 0 from what I've heard is a great game. Everyone love it both as a gameplay and as a story. The setting is different from the previous games - Japan in the 80s. Shenmue 0 in Yokusuka with Ryo will be no different. Maybe Shenmue 0 with Iwao training in Bailu village. However, such a game would give away many of Shenmue 3's secrets and again will not be very different.

The biggest question remains how they would do something interesting with Ryo in Yokusuka. Something to excite the mass audience. I'm not saying some school side story doesn't have potential. But what are the chances of it becoming a hit with all the limitations of the story and characters in the next games?

 

[spud1897]

Brief Reaction with more to come from us :)

 

[Sailor-San]

The more time goes by, the more I think Shenmue 0 would be a mistake. I know all true fans are united under the idea of a 4th game. If they make Zero, it means it won't be for the fans. Just another attempt to expand the audience.

I'm not saying that seeing Yokosuka in an Unreal engine doesn't sound appealing, but that would be a side story. Ryo practices karate and goes to school. It makes no sense for anything major to happen in such game.

Yakuza 0 from what I've heard is a great game. Everyone love it both as a gameplay and as a story. The setting is different from the previous games - Japan in the 80s. Shenmue 0 in Yokusuka with Ryo will be no different. Maybe Shenmue 0 with Iwao training in Bailu village. However, such a game would give away many of Shenmue 3's secrets and again will not be very different.

The biggest question remains how they would do something interesting with Ryo in Yokusuka. Something to excite the mass audience. I'm not saying some school side story doesn't have potential. But what are the chances of it becoming a hit with all the limitations of the story and characters in the next games?

Maybe Shenhua would be the main protagonist. And the ending of Shenmue 0 would be the prophecy you see at the beginning of Shenmue 1.

Of course they had to write it in a way that it becomes playable in chronological order and in releaseday order. It could be a great way to mirror the experience of both Ryo and Shenhua. Ryo looses his father by an intense brutal drastic palpable real murder and Shenhua both of her parents by a mysterious death. So like Ryo she is on her own and learning about a new way of dealing with the tragic loss of innocence and the diminishing of wonder and magic. But unlike Ryo her environment lets her to explore the magic and wonder of nature and ultimately of supernatural abilities in herself as she grows older. So it could be something like a ying yang kind of thing. Dobuita as a hard reality approach and Bailu Village as a more magical place.

And dreams/visions of Ryo would happen to Shenhua. As the visions appear we as players could play as Ryo in Dobuita and it could reveal different aspects they didn't tackle in Shenmue 1-3 (maybe foreshadowing of the murder of his father etc.), so it would engage players that are familiar with the whole lore and would get new players interested in Shenmue 1-3 without giving anything away. I don't know

 

[Seaman]

In fact, imagine this: He works on a new 3D fighter that is a spiritual successor to Virtua Fighter AND then he uses the knowledge and experience he gains from that project to implement that fighting system into an eventual Shenmue IV. That would be awesome.

In fact, he did worked in a spiritual succesor to VF long ago and the project was canned by Sega :') ... I can't recall the name for it but the gameplay idea was using the player body motions. Probably the technology wasn't ready for it back then *. With recents AI advances I've seen animations captured from webcam tracking and/or video footage and getting implemented into a 3D model with really nice results (Mixamo iirc).

You make a very good point at what could be Yu Suzuki procedure and hence the state of Shenmue IV as of today. He really conceives game development as toys which has to be made with different parts assembling into a whole fun experience. Aka the system before the material/presentation, in opposition to generalized modern industry "the material before the system". Many could argue this as a dated oldschool approach but certainly its his approach and resultes before in groundbreaking arcade games (the jettokōsutā arcades concept for example) and Shenmue itself (totally clear example of game made of different parts).

This would leave us with Shenmue IV not in active development like with a deadline, nor halted, but in a playfield experimental pet project.

I would really love to see a YS fighting game as a teaser for things to come.

*There is the chance that Sega cancelled the project due their idiosinchratic chaotic and uncomprensible way of doing things at times, that sometimes it works with a collateral damage cost and others just flop. "Yuji Naka, for our new platform Saturn you won't work at Sonic 4 but something about a flying jester." That resulted in nowadays classic, back then failure "Nights". "Yuji Naka, we are developing for Gamecube. Do something about a Billy Hatcher dude".

 

[Vivi-gamer]

Not going to lie, if I hear any official indication that they're working on a Prequel/Remake instead of Shenmue IV I will be pretty irate! We all just want the story to proceed and be done with - and well executed of course! So any diversions from that path will push my patience, I can handle Air Twister but anything more than that will be agony.

As for talk about making the past 3 games present for newcomers... We already have the Anime which has re-covered the territory and despite my opinion of the HD Port, the games are at least accessible on modern systems - Often on sale too! So I don't think the next Shenmue title needs to recall old material, if anything I feel quite the opposite. We all have conflicting opinions on Shenmue 3, I enjoyed the game for the most part but just wanted more story progression. So the prospect of a Shenmue IV needs to take the bull by the horns and run riot! Jump straight into a new location and get right into the story. If we ever get a Shenmue IV and I feel the same lack of plot progression I felt from playing Shenmue 3 I will be pretty disappointed.

 

[iknifaugood]

They already effectively made Shenmue 0: it's called Shenmue 1. The original plan for Shenmue was to release all the content for Shenmue 1 and 2 as one game on the Saturn, once the budget ballooned as development shifted to DC, they made the decision to split it into 2 games to better cover dev costs. This had the knock on effect of forcing the team to create convoluted ways to stretch out the length of the opening chapter to a fit a full game which is why so little of consequence happens in S1 and why the map is so small. Allowing the series to be defined as a weird Japanese life simulator is the single worst thing that happened to the series (and that's really saying something) and I see no reason how returning to that would be beneficial at all.

The only way a Shenmue 0 could possibly be of any interest would be if it told the story of a young Iwao but then that would render the main series redundant.

The biggest question remains how they would do something interesting with Ryo in Yokusuka. Something to excite the mass audience. I'm not saying some school side story doesn't have potential. But what are the chances of it becoming a hit with all the limitations of the story and characters in the next games?

The chances of it becoming a hit are about as good as Shenmue Online's were.

 

[JCJ]

Lots of mixed feelings after reading that interview.

On one hand, I think expecting a direct continuation of the story for the fans in a "regular" game borders on delusion at this point. While the fanbase certainly exists, it's simply not big enough to finance a game in the same "genre" than 1&2.

They simply have to give up the "genre"/production values or else have to give up the current fanbase. I would personally pick the first, and release some kind of conversational "indie-like" 2D game or something that continues the story and is rich in story and lore..Or even simply release the original scripts as a novel or something. But we've had plenty of indication Suzuki-san is more keen to the second approach.

And that's where the "prequel" idea could have a (very little) chance of working. Of course us the jaded fans that have waited for 20+ years would be beyond pissed, but for the general public there could be an interesting brand new game made from Iwao's adventures in 60's Yokosuka, Hong Kong, Guilin, Meng Cun...and Yokosuka. The team could even cram a good amount of fan service for longtime fans: I'd personally love to explore Dobuita, or Wise Men Quarter, or Kowloon again, but even earlier in time. Meet young Guixiang or Jianmin, etc.

Of course telling events that way could spoil some possible reveals for a hypothetical Shenmue 4 and beyond. But the chances for that game look so slim that I would gladly take the risk. In some way, it could even ease the development of those future games: maybe we wouldn't need Shenmue 4&5 to wrap up the whole story since part of it would have already been told in the prequel. (And, of course, they could rectify the huge mistake of not going deep enough in Shenmue 3's Bailu chapter with Iwao and even Shenhua's father backstories).

I don't know...I think Suzuki hasn't been "reading the room" correctly for a long time, but at the same time I'm glad he's talking again about Shenmue, and I will surely consume anything they release.

 

[iknifaugood]

I would personally pick the first, and release some kind of conversational "indie-like" 2D game or something that continues the story and is rich in story and lore..Or even simply release the original scripts as a novel or something. But we've had plenty of indication Suzuki-san is more keen to the second approach.

Suzuki certainly seems to insist that Shenmue needs to be this big expensive project. I have yet to hear compelling reasons as to why. It could very easily be made as a point and click adventure game, or a turn based RPG, a visual novel, or even a VR game if he thinks the audience isn't quite small enough. There is nothing inherent to Shenmue that necessitates these lavish production budgets.

there could be an interesting brand new game made from Iwao's adventures in 60's Yokosuka, Hong Kong, Guilin, Meng Cun...and Yokosuka.

There was an interesting idea for a game there...it was called Shenmue and, against all odds, we got a third game in that series which, for whatever reason, was about playing mini games and grinding for money.

Of course telling events that way could spoil some possible reveals for a hypothetical Shenmue 4 and beyond. But the chances for that game look so slim that I would gladly take the risk.

Assuming that it's seriously possible for Suzuki to get funding for a Shenmue 0 (and I think we can all agree that's a big assumption) I'm all the way with you. If he uses that as an opportunity to more or less fill in the backstory to Shenmue and tell the complete story of Iwao's adventures across China that would indeed be a nice swan song for the series. Of course, if he's going to do something that grand, why not just tell the whole story of Shenmue in 1 big game at that point? Doesn't he have that written down already? I just don't see how Shenmue 0 has more appeal than "The Shenmue Saga".

(And, of course, they could rectify the huge mistake of not going deep enough in Shenmue 3's Bailu chapter with Iwao and even Shenhua's father backstories).

I don't know...I think Suzuki hasn't been "reading the room" correctly for a long time, but at the same time I'm glad he's talking again about Shenmue, and I will surely consume anything they release.

Preach, brother.

 

[mrazizpizza]

Suzuki certainly seems to insist that Shenmue needs to be this big expensive project. I have yet to hear compelling reasons as to why. It could very easily be made as a point and click adventure game, or a turn based RPG, a visual novel, or even a VR game if he thinks the audience isn't quite small enough.

While transitioning Shenmue to a smaller scale adventure game or RPG is definitely the best, maybe even only way for the series to continue I think it’s also important to look at what type of game Suzuki would even be interested in creating. Shenmue’s core design philosophy always stemmed from translating old school Japanese adventure game design into a 3D space, this is true all the way from the original Old Man and The Peach Tree demo to the eventual Dreamcast release. I’d imagine for the original designer it would be a particular unfulfilling project to make a continuation revert back to just a typical adventure game, at odds with the original goal of the project. As for Shenmue 3 I would say mini games and money grinding were always significant parts of how these games were designed and to preset 1&2 as solely story based and 3 solely about those parts feels a bit disingenuous.

 

[iknifaugood]

I think it’s also important to look at what type of game Suzuki would even be interested in creating.

This is true, if he doesn't want to make Shenmue, he shouldn't. But I don't think he's creating something like Air Twister out of sheer interest.

Shenmue’s core design philosophy always stemmed from translating old school Japanese adventure game design into a 3D space

It's worth looking at how it achieved that and how successful it was. What would be "lost" in a move to 2D beyond aesthetics?

I’d imagine for the original designer it would be a particular unfulfilling project to make a continuation revert back to just a typical adventure game, at odds with the original goal of the project.

How would this be at odds with the original goal of the project if the original goal was to create an adventure game? Nintendo has shifted Mario, Zelda, and Metroid back and forth from 2D to 3D depending on the project.

mini games and money grinding were always significant parts of how these games were designed

Money is earned passively in Shenmue 1 and the forklift job is a mandatory story section that takes place over a set amount of time; the purpose is not to earn money. In S2, Ryo's bag is stolen and his lack of money is part of the story. You need money to meet Ren (the worst part of the game) and then to buy into the fights in Kowloon, after which Ryo gets to keep his substantial earnings (which have mysteriously disappeared in S3). In the original design, the save files would have continued between games so it's doubly strange that so many people consider it such a core part of the series.

As for minigames I don't know what to tell you, sometimes Shenmue uses minigames to simulate martial arts training but I wouldn't say they were significant parts of how the games were designed. Learning fighting game style moves is far more core to the experience of S1 and 2.

to preset 1&2 as solely story based and 3 solely about those parts feels a bit disingenuous.

I was being (mostly) sarcastic but it's pretty inarguable that S3 offers the least story in terms of both quality and quantity and has its gameplay most disconnected from it.

 

[mrazizpizza]

It's worth looking at how it achieved that and how successful it was. What would be "lost" in a move to 2D beyond aesthetics?

I do personally think there would be quite a bit to lose from translating to a 2D space. It’s hard to argue strongly one way or the other as we only have the example of one but I have doubts that regardless of how well designed it would be, fans would have such a strong connection to a location like Yokosuka as they do. With a large amount of Shenmue’s story focus around Ryo making a huge mistake and betraying his fathers wishes leaving his friends and family, having that strong connection definitely makes that point feel more poignant. That being said regardless of what you would or wouldn’t lose. Due to the series being born out of translating these adventure game ideas into a 3D space it’s very easy to see what would be lost for Suzuki from a design standpoint.

How would this be at odds with the original goal of the project if the original goal was to create an adventure game? Nintendo has shifted Mario, Zelda, and Metroid back and forth from 2D to 3D depending on the project.

Going the last point I’d argue it’s more about placing those ideas in a more realized world than just creating a adventure game. I’ll admit saying it was “at odds” was not a particularly good word choice on my part though I do think striping back to a standard adventure or RPG would lose enough from the original concept that I could easily understand Suzuki being entirely unsatisfied with that route.

Money is earned passively in Shenmue 1 and the forklift job is a mandatory story section that takes place over a set amount of time; the purpose is not to earn money. In S2, Ryo's bag is stolen and his lack of money is part of the story. You need money to meet Ren (the worst part of the game) and then to buy into the fights in Kowloon, after which Ryo gets to keep his substantial earnings (which have mysteriously disappeared in S3). In the original design, the save files would have continued between games so it's doubly strange that so many people consider it such a core part of the series.

In Shenmue 2 the game starts you out living on your own paying rent and while you can let the tap build up, through both this and the many money related activities the game clearly wants you to spend a significant amount of your time earning money . I’d say money earning is more than anything about the game telling the player to interact with the world and not to be so laser focused on the story (Which is also the story is telling Ryo). To that end I don’t think it’s an accident that as soon as the player is no longer expected to pay rent they have to air out the books, and as soon as that is no longer necessary you have to grind to meet Ren. Shenmue 1 is definitely a bit different and while you do have to work at the end as part of the story, I’d argue that the forced waiting times effectively serves the same purpose in the overall design.

As for minigames I don't know what to tell you, sometimes Shenmue uses minigames to simulate martial arts training but I wouldn't say they were significant parts of how the games were designed. Learning fighting game style moves is far more core to the experience of S1 and 2.

While minigames are definitely much more core to the design of 3 and that’s a valid critique of that game, I really do think that they are very well baked into the original ones as well. Not only are they consistently worked into the main story like airing out the books. There are also large amounts of them and the games really point you to interacting with them at every turn, even requiring you to when you have to gather up funds in 2.

I also want to make sure this isn’t coming off as too confrontational as that’s not how its intended and that can be really easy to read into stuff like this especially online. I think anyone on this site is gonna have some pretty strong opinions on this series and at least for myself it’s easy to unintentionally find myself writing a bit of a book about it lol.

 

[spud1897]

In terms of Air Twister he was talking about a similar type of game back in late 2020 and 2021. So he's always wanted to do something like it.

Around Shenmue 0 I would certainly buy it. There's a big risk attached to it though. Assume it is greenlit for a moment, they HAVE to create a successful game that sells well. If they don't then in my view any aspirations for Shenmue 4 in game form are massively in the shit. Would a publisher front up money again for a Shenmue 4 if 0 bombed? That's also assuming 0 came out first. You'd need a substantial budget and in turn sales. Even if you went for both games with a publisher you'd need in excess of the Shenmue 3 budget for both surely?

With Shenmue 4 (I want the full vision but seeing things from both sides) they could end things and then there's no issue. It would be done and that would be that.

I'm all for anything Shenmue but this carries risk but a potential great reward.

 

[Revan]

I'm not too keen on the idea of a Shenmue 0 releasing before the mainline series is finished either. Although, I think at this stage he is merely chewing over the possibility of that potential side story game, and he might begin experimenting with this series reaching into the past through playable backstory flashbacks in Shenmue 4.

He was pretty definitive in the recent 4Gamer interview that if he had to create another city exploration game, it would be for Shenmue 4, not a different project.

4Gamer:
　To put it simply, if you were to make a "city exploration type game,'' which one would you aim for, Shenmue IV or a completely new game?

Suzuki:
　If it were a game like that, it would definitely be Shenmue IV.

［インタビュー］鈴木 裕氏に聞く「Air Twister」開発の背景と，ゲーム制作に必要な発想術。誰もやらないことは，身近にたくさん転がっている

　11月10日に，ININ GamesからPCおよび家庭用ゲーム機向けの「Air Twister」が発売される。本作を手掛けたのは，「アウトラン」「バーチャファイター」「シェンムー」などで知られる鈴木 裕氏だ。制作の裏側や，独特な発想の源などについて，鈴木氏に聞いた。

www.4gamer.net

 

[Down by Law]

Yeah, we have to get 4 first. If that's the story finished, then i'd like to see a high quality Shenmue O as a completely stand alone game. If that game did well enough (think Yakuza Zero) then it could open the possibility of new gen Shenmue remakes which i'm sure we could all get behind.

 

[iknifaugood]

Around Shenmue 0 I would certainly buy it. There's a big risk attached to it though. Assume it is greenlit for a moment, they HAVE to create a successful game that sells well. If they don't then in my view any aspirations for Shenmue 4 in game form are massively in the shit. Would a publisher front up money again for a Shenmue 4 if 0 bombed?

Replace 0 with 3 and you have my exact thoughts.

You'd need a substantial budget and in turn sales.

This is the biggest sticking point. Why would anyone give Suzuki a substantial budget for more Shenmue at this point? What would be the benefit to Shenmue 0 over a new IP?

 

[iknifaugood]

Due to the series being born out of translating these adventure game ideas into a 3D space it’s very easy to see what would be lost for Suzuki from a design standpoint.

But what was translated? What do you do in Shenmue in 3D that you can't do in 2D aside from the aesthetics?

I do think striping back to a standard adventure or RPG would lose enough from the original concept that I could easily understand Suzuki being entirely unsatisfied with that route.

But what do you think would be lost?

I’d say money earning is more than anything about the game telling the player to interact with the world and not to be so laser focused on the story (Which is also the story is telling Ryo). To that end I don’t think it’s an accident that as soon as the player is no longer expected to pay rent they have to air out the books, and as soon as that is no longer necessary you have to grind to meet Ren. Shenmue 1 is definitely a bit different and while you do have to work at the end as part of the story, I’d argue that the forced waiting times effectively serves the same purpose in the overall design.

This is bang on. The design of Shenmue 1 necessitated side activities that essentially just "waste" the player's time (meaning they don't tie in to broader systems) which is basically just the arcade, training and I guess buying things. But this was from a time before smart phones. Zero people are going to be asked to wait for Charlie and meander around the game world in 2023; they're going to waste that time on their phone until the game lets them play again.

S2 added the wait feature but instead incorporated money into this equation (again, by justifying it through the story) so most of the side activities involve gambling of some sort.

All of this is to say that without NEEDING to wait in Shenmue 1 or NEEDING money in Shenmue 2, there is no reason to engage with all the side activities. And, since waiting has been removed, and I can only assume/hope that money gating is next on the chopping block, then it's worth considering what that design will look like on the other side.

While minigames are definitely much more core to the design of 3 and that’s a valid critique of that game, I really do think that they are very well baked into the original ones as well.

I totally expected the minigames in S3 to be tied to training the way that S1 was tied to waiting and S2 was tied to money. Crucially, the story of S3 never justifies this in the way that it does in S1 and 2 but the biggest issue is that Shenmue is essentially a "detective game". You talk to people for information, investigate areas for leads, and follow a linear breadcrumb trail. It's the breadcrumb trail that makes all the difference and that breadcrumb trail is the story. Without it, you just run around pressing A on things.

I also want to make sure this isn’t coming off as too confrontational as that’s not how its intended and that can be really easy to read into stuff like this especially online.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just endlessly curious why people like Shenmue and what they think it even is because, unlike most game series, there really isn't a consensus around it.

it’s easy to unintentionally find myself writing a bit of a book about it lol.