Maybe Shenhua would be the main protagonist. And the ending of Shenmue 0 would be the prophecy you see at the beginning of Shenmue 1.The more time goes by, the more I think Shenmue 0 would be a mistake. I know all true fans are united under the idea of a 4th game. If they make Zero, it means it won't be for the fans. Just another attempt to expand the audience.
I'm not saying that seeing Yokosuka in an Unreal engine doesn't sound appealing, but that would be a side story. Ryo practices karate and goes to school. It makes no sense for anything major to happen in such game.
Yakuza 0 from what I've heard is a great game. Everyone love it both as a gameplay and as a story. The setting is different from the previous games - Japan in the 80s. Shenmue 0 in Yokusuka with Ryo will be no different. Maybe Shenmue 0 with Iwao training in Bailu village. However, such a game would give away many of Shenmue 3's secrets and again will not be very different.
The biggest question remains how they would do something interesting with Ryo in Yokusuka. Something to excite the mass audience. I'm not saying some school side story doesn't have potential. But what are the chances of it becoming a hit with all the limitations of the story and characters in the next games?
In fact, he did worked in a spiritual succesor to VF long ago and the project was canned by Sega :') ... I can't recall the name for it but the gameplay idea was using the player body motions. Probably the technology wasn't ready for it back then *. With recents AI advances I've seen animations captured from webcam tracking and/or video footage and getting implemented into a 3D model with really nice results (Mixamo iirc).In fact, imagine this: He works on a new 3D fighter that is a spiritual successor to Virtua Fighter AND then he uses the knowledge and experience he gains from that project to implement that fighting system into an eventual Shenmue IV. That would be awesome.
The chances of it becoming a hit are about as good as Shenmue Online's were.The biggest question remains how they would do something interesting with Ryo in Yokusuka. Something to excite the mass audience. I'm not saying some school side story doesn't have potential. But what are the chances of it becoming a hit with all the limitations of the story and characters in the next games?
Suzuki certainly seems to insist that Shenmue needs to be this big expensive project. I have yet to hear compelling reasons as to why. It could very easily be made as a point and click adventure game, or a turn based RPG, a visual novel, or even a VR game if he thinks the audience isn't quite small enough. There is nothing inherent to Shenmue that necessitates these lavish production budgets.I would personally pick the first, and release some kind of conversational "indie-like" 2D game or something that continues the story and is rich in story and lore..Or even simply release the original scripts as a novel or something. But we've had plenty of indication Suzuki-san is more keen to the second approach.
There was an interesting idea for a game there...it was called Shenmue and, against all odds, we got a third game in that series which, for whatever reason, was about playing mini games and grinding for money.there could be an interesting brand new game made from Iwao's adventures in 60's Yokosuka, Hong Kong, Guilin, Meng Cun...and Yokosuka.
Assuming that it's seriously possible for Suzuki to get funding for a Shenmue 0 (and I think we can all agree that's a big assumption) I'm all the way with you. If he uses that as an opportunity to more or less fill in the backstory to Shenmue and tell the complete story of Iwao's adventures across China that would indeed be a nice swan song for the series. Of course, if he's going to do something that grand, why not just tell the whole story of Shenmue in 1 big game at that point? Doesn't he have that written down already? I just don't see how Shenmue 0 has more appeal than "The Shenmue Saga".Of course telling events that way could spoil some possible reveals for a hypothetical Shenmue 4 and beyond. But the chances for that game look so slim that I would gladly take the risk.
(And, of course, they could rectify the huge mistake of not going deep enough in Shenmue 3's Bailu chapter with Iwao and even Shenhua's father backstories).
Preach, brother.I don't know...I think Suzuki hasn't been "reading the room" correctly for a long time, but at the same time I'm glad he's talking again about Shenmue, and I will surely consume anything they release.
While transitioning Shenmue to a smaller scale adventure game or RPG is definitely the best, maybe even only way for the series to continue I think it’s also important to look at what type of game Suzuki would even be interested in creating. Shenmue’s core design philosophy always stemmed from translating old school Japanese adventure game design into a 3D space, this is true all the way from the original Old Man and The Peach Tree demo to the eventual Dreamcast release. I’d imagine for the original designer it would be a particular unfulfilling project to make a continuation revert back to just a typical adventure game, at odds with the original goal of the project. As for Shenmue 3 I would say mini games and money grinding were always significant parts of how these games were designed and to preset 1&2 as solely story based and 3 solely about those parts feels a bit disingenuous.Suzuki certainly seems to insist that Shenmue needs to be this big expensive project. I have yet to hear compelling reasons as to why. It could very easily be made as a point and click adventure game, or a turn based RPG, a visual novel, or even a VR game if he thinks the audience isn't quite small enough.
This is true, if he doesn't want to make Shenmue, he shouldn't. But I don't think he's creating something like Air Twister out of sheer interest.I think it’s also important to look at what type of game Suzuki would even be interested in creating.
It's worth looking at how it achieved that and how successful it was. What would be "lost" in a move to 2D beyond aesthetics?Shenmue’s core design philosophy always stemmed from translating old school Japanese adventure game design into a 3D space
How would this be at odds with the original goal of the project if the original goal was to create an adventure game? Nintendo has shifted Mario, Zelda, and Metroid back and forth from 2D to 3D depending on the project.I’d imagine for the original designer it would be a particular unfulfilling project to make a continuation revert back to just a typical adventure game, at odds with the original goal of the project.
Money is earned passively in Shenmue 1 and the forklift job is a mandatory story section that takes place over a set amount of time; the purpose is not to earn money. In S2, Ryo's bag is stolen and his lack of money is part of the story. You need money to meet Ren (the worst part of the game) and then to buy into the fights in Kowloon, after which Ryo gets to keep his substantial earnings (which have mysteriously disappeared in S3). In the original design, the save files would have continued between games so it's doubly strange that so many people consider it such a core part of the series.mini games and money grinding were always significant parts of how these games were designed
I was being (mostly) sarcastic but it's pretty inarguable that S3 offers the least story in terms of both quality and quantity and has its gameplay most disconnected from it.to preset 1&2 as solely story based and 3 solely about those parts feels a bit disingenuous.
I do personally think there would be quite a bit to lose from translating to a 2D space. It’s hard to argue strongly one way or the other as we only have the example of one but I have doubts that regardless of how well designed it would be, fans would have such a strong connection to a location like Yokosuka as they do. With a large amount of Shenmue’s story focus around Ryo making a huge mistake and betraying his fathers wishes leaving his friends and family, having that strong connection definitely makes that point feel more poignant. That being said regardless of what you would or wouldn’t lose. Due to the series being born out of translating these adventure game ideas into a 3D space it’s very easy to see what would be lost for Suzuki from a design standpoint.It's worth looking at how it achieved that and how successful it was. What would be "lost" in a move to 2D beyond aesthetics?
Going the last point I’d argue it’s more about placing those ideas in a more realized world than just creating a adventure game. I’ll admit saying it was “at odds” was not a particularly good word choice on my part though I do think striping back to a standard adventure or RPG would lose enough from the original concept that I could easily understand Suzuki being entirely unsatisfied with that route.How would this be at odds with the original goal of the project if the original goal was to create an adventure game? Nintendo has shifted Mario, Zelda, and Metroid back and forth from 2D to 3D depending on the project.
In Shenmue 2 the game starts you out living on your own paying rent and while you can let the tap build up, through both this and the many money related activities the game clearly wants you to spend a significant amount of your time earning money . I’d say money earning is more than anything about the game telling the player to interact with the world and not to be so laser focused on the story (Which is also the story is telling Ryo). To that end I don’t think it’s an accident that as soon as the player is no longer expected to pay rent they have to air out the books, and as soon as that is no longer necessary you have to grind to meet Ren. Shenmue 1 is definitely a bit different and while you do have to work at the end as part of the story, I’d argue that the forced waiting times effectively serves the same purpose in the overall design.Money is earned passively in Shenmue 1 and the forklift job is a mandatory story section that takes place over a set amount of time; the purpose is not to earn money. In S2, Ryo's bag is stolen and his lack of money is part of the story. You need money to meet Ren (the worst part of the game) and then to buy into the fights in Kowloon, after which Ryo gets to keep his substantial earnings (which have mysteriously disappeared in S3). In the original design, the save files would have continued between games so it's doubly strange that so many people consider it such a core part of the series.
While minigames are definitely much more core to the design of 3 and that’s a valid critique of that game, I really do think that they are very well baked into the original ones as well. Not only are they consistently worked into the main story like airing out the books. There are also large amounts of them and the games really point you to interacting with them at every turn, even requiring you to when you have to gather up funds in 2.As for minigames I don't know what to tell you, sometimes Shenmue uses minigames to simulate martial arts training but I wouldn't say they were significant parts of how the games were designed. Learning fighting game style moves is far more core to the experience of S1 and 2.
4Gamer:
To put it simply, if you were to make a "city exploration type game,'' which one would you aim for, Shenmue IV or a completely new game?
Suzuki:
If it were a game like that, it would definitely be Shenmue IV.
[インタビュー]鈴木 裕氏に聞く「Air Twister」開発の背景と,ゲーム制作に必要な発想術。誰もやらないことは,身近にたくさん転がっている
11月10日に,ININ GamesからPCおよび家庭用ゲーム機向けの「Air Twister」が発売される。本作を手掛けたのは,「アウトラン」「バーチャファイター」「シェンムー」などで知られる鈴木 裕氏だ。制作の裏側や,独特な発想の源などについて,鈴木氏に聞いた。www.4gamer.net
Replace 0 with 3 and you have my exact thoughts.Around Shenmue 0 I would certainly buy it. There's a big risk attached to it though. Assume it is greenlit for a moment, they HAVE to create a successful game that sells well. If they don't then in my view any aspirations for Shenmue 4 in game form are massively in the shit. Would a publisher front up money again for a Shenmue 4 if 0 bombed?
This is the biggest sticking point. Why would anyone give Suzuki a substantial budget for more Shenmue at this point? What would be the benefit to Shenmue 0 over a new IP?You'd need a substantial budget and in turn sales.
But what was translated? What do you do in Shenmue in 3D that you can't do in 2D aside from the aesthetics?Due to the series being born out of translating these adventure game ideas into a 3D space it’s very easy to see what would be lost for Suzuki from a design standpoint.
But what do you think would be lost?I do think striping back to a standard adventure or RPG would lose enough from the original concept that I could easily understand Suzuki being entirely unsatisfied with that route.
This is bang on. The design of Shenmue 1 necessitated side activities that essentially just "waste" the player's time (meaning they don't tie in to broader systems) which is basically just the arcade, training and I guess buying things. But this was from a time before smart phones. Zero people are going to be asked to wait for Charlie and meander around the game world in 2023; they're going to waste that time on their phone until the game lets them play again.I’d say money earning is more than anything about the game telling the player to interact with the world and not to be so laser focused on the story (Which is also the story is telling Ryo). To that end I don’t think it’s an accident that as soon as the player is no longer expected to pay rent they have to air out the books, and as soon as that is no longer necessary you have to grind to meet Ren. Shenmue 1 is definitely a bit different and while you do have to work at the end as part of the story, I’d argue that the forced waiting times effectively serves the same purpose in the overall design.
I totally expected the minigames in S3 to be tied to training the way that S1 was tied to waiting and S2 was tied to money. Crucially, the story of S3 never justifies this in the way that it does in S1 and 2 but the biggest issue is that Shenmue is essentially a "detective game". You talk to people for information, investigate areas for leads, and follow a linear breadcrumb trail. It's the breadcrumb trail that makes all the difference and that breadcrumb trail is the story. Without it, you just run around pressing A on things.While minigames are definitely much more core to the design of 3 and that’s a valid critique of that game, I really do think that they are very well baked into the original ones as well.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just endlessly curious why people like Shenmue and what they think it even is because, unlike most game series, there really isn't a consensus around it.I also want to make sure this isn’t coming off as too confrontational as that’s not how its intended and that can be really easy to read into stuff like this especially online.
it’s easy to unintentionally find myself writing a bit of a book about it lol.