Impressions on the plot and the ending (only read if you finished the game)

Yeah I'm ducking and covering whilst playing with fire from spoilers here, but I got the vibe of disappointment from the vague glimpses i saw. Without actually spoiling stuff on a scale 1-10 how would you rate it?

Shenmue 2 is like a 10/10
Shenmue 1 is like a 7.5/10
And as I have always said Shenmue 3 is likely going to average like 4-5/10

From what I have seen of the game my personal enjoyment will probably be around. 6.5-7/10 but with a reviewer hat on, the score gets lowered to a 5 at most.

Its a good shenmue game but I havent seen everything though, maybe it will suprise me. :)
 
I don't know if it was case of not enough budget, ran out of time or cut content. To me it's clear the last section was not fully realized and that sours me to the experience of what is otherwise a very competent Shenmue game.
Took the words right out of my mouth, dude.
The oddly placed side quest just under the castle, the painfully short and weak enemies you breeze right through, Chai contributing absolutely nothing, those dudes in Lan Di's room that just went down in one QTE, that one Jeet Kune Do guy that gets thrown away so easily by Ren, Hsu and Shiling just bopping guys on the head comically (I could take 1 or two instances but oh my god did those drag on and take away the immersion for me), and of course the rushed ending.

The worst part is that it's almost there. It could have been something great but it just didn't work for multiple reasons. I really, honestly do hope this game is successful and that we get Shenmue 4 in the near future, with a much higher budget and less of a headache.

I know I'm coming off as a debbie downer or negative nancy or whatever the hell you wanna call it. It is still very impressive that YS Net were able to accomplish so much, considering how small the budget was for this kind of game and make it actually feel like a Shenmue game, and for that alone, it is very commendable with what the final product is. But with the ending, along with the number of other issues with the game (for example the food and stamina system is completely unnecessary as it is right now, at the very least it shouldn't have been all in one health bar), the game just didn't stick the landing.
 
A few days later is anyone else still aggravated by this?

But wait there's one more fight with what I can only assume based on their appearance and ethnicities is a group of backers. Why in gods name were they placed here?! Remember this is the penultimate room before facing Lan Di. From none of information I've gleamed does Red Snakes or Chi You Men recruit other ethnicities. I thought most of the backer content was introduced tastefully while still respecting the 'reality' of Shenmue. This did not and tonally was a complete misstep. I feel even fans that donated to this level wouldn't want their integration to pull players out of the story but sadly it did

I want to know if anyone else was bothered by implementation of backer content in such a pivotal moment?
 
I was more confused than annoyed, especially when I saw that one of them wore glasses and that the whole design, in addition to the ethnicities, was really different to all the other characters. I didn’t remember that the kickstarter included backers being imported into the game so you mentioning it was quite an enlightenment for me.

It probably would have been better to use them as store clerks or something similar but maybe Yu thought it wouldn‘t do them justice. Definitely a weird decision but it is fitting in some way in regards to the whole castle segment, being so rushed and all.
 
A few days later is anyone else still aggravated by this?



I want to know if anyone else was bothered by implementation of backer content in such a pivotal moment?
Well sad to say I wasn't annoyed because the entire final segment just was all over the place from the very beginning. going there and realizing it was no longer a town, The random NPC/side quest/pawn shop all for a medicine bottle, the scenes with big guy and broom girl, No siege mini segment...They should have saved those backers as high level street fights for money/tokens though I think. Seeing them just made me go "Yeah, why not" because there was so much wrong with the final segment imo that nothing phased me. Lan-Di's "guards" being a bunch of jokes bothered me much more.
 
While we are at it, anyone annoyed how the launch trailer basically spelt out conclusion with the fight with Mr. Muscles? It’s like if they had showed counter elbow assault against Don Nui in one of the trailers for Shenmue 2.

Don’t get me wrong as a dedicated fan that poured over the trailers and material I instantly recognized locations i.e. the abandoned temple, I knew the Mr. Sun character would eventually appear there to teach me a move. Once I learnt body check (how awesome is that move by the way.) I thought back to the trailer and thought Mr. Muscles would overcome it or I would have to use new move or strategy.

I didn’t remember that the kickstarter included backers being imported into the game so you mentioning it was quite an enlightenment for me

Yeah I saw a few backers walking around Niaowu as NPC’s and it honestly it didn’t bother me too much. I think the fact they were integrated before such a pivotal moment in the game just made them stick out like more of a sore thumb. Plus in universe it doesn’t fit the organization.

They should have saved those backers as high level street fights for money/tokens though I think.

Absolutely. I’m sure someone will pull the original KS reward tier as I vaguely recall the reward was being a bad guy or maybe even member of Chi You Men. In either case they should have been side quest as foreign gang or group.

Lan-Di's "guards" being a bunch of jokes bothered me much more.

Sadly you are completely right. Imagine string of fights up to the calibre of Master Baihu leading to confrontation of Lan Di! With some adjustments I actually think there’s elements to make a dramatic conclusion it’s sad they weren’t able to live up to promise of first two areas.
 
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So now that I've had a few days to ruminate on the story and characters of Shenmue 3 I wanted to post some some of my thoughts and questions.

I think fundamentally looking back at the story the real issue I had wasn't that large overacting mysterious were not tied up in the game i.e. Did Iwao killed Zhao Sunming? What are Shenhua's 'powers', the meaning of the mirrors (Although we get more detail on that).

I felt the game suffered from lack of stakes, characters that felt much more shallow than previous entries, odd pacing and repetition. It would be an understatement the haphazard last area due to it's length, lack of challenge and rushed elements left a bad taste in my mouth. So while some of this may sound overtly critical, reading impressions as new players have started playing this has reminded me how much I loved a lot of parts of Bailu and Niaowu.

So in no particular order;

- This will be a revolving complaint but did anyone feel Grandmaster Feng was severely under cooked as a character? I mean here you have someone that knew about both Iwao and Zhao Sunming. In addition was familar with Lan Di and his real identity. Yet to my knowledge had a very brief role and never really gets questioned in terms of what he knows, outside saying he's sure Iwao wasn't capable of murder

- I'm struggling to understand the timeline and chain of events in Bailu of the thugs. Obviously they were sent to gather the stone masons and look for the mirror. I admit the details could be fuzzy but when exactly was Yuan's kidnapped? I'm assuming it was shortly after he wrote the letter to Shenhua but was this after the rest of the stonemasons got attacked? I mean they turned Hermits nest into their base while they held Yanxin (Yuan's apprentice), and according to Shenhua continued to look for the mirrors. Were they also planning on handing him over to the Red Snakes?

- I've said this earlier but I feel like Chai's inclusion in this game was purely for fan service reasons. His involvement is confusing at best but nothing really benefited from his inclusion

- I absolutely loved the whole training section and character of Mr. Sun (In my opinion one of the games high point). Hearing NPC characters talk about how miserly he is, the relationships he's lost because of him skipping out on bills. It's endless and it's all fantastic. Then when you meet him as he teaches you Rooster Steps, commanding you to chase and pick up chickens. All while feeding his alcohol and food needs. I also thought it was a cool moment how much more self reflective and aware Ryo was that he speculated some of the menial tasks he was asked to do would ultimately help him learn Bodycheck

- Some of my favorite moments in the game was talking to Shenhua in the evening. I thought similar to Disk 4 in Guilin it did a lot to flesh out and humanize Ryo. That element is curtailed in Niaowu and honestly Shenua integration felt like an almost after thought and I was surprised how minimal her role was. I remember seeing her character just standing stationary outside the entrance of Blossom Road. Based on all the balcony chats I had with her it's clear they used the character to provide hints and tips for elements in Niaowu but in terms of narrative she is sort of just there

- Another element that felt completely under cooked was the Red Snakes themselves. I mean for a big chunk of Niaowu you essentially encounter just two members of the gang. Yet you are told of them destroying stores, temples among other places but rarely see any of this destruction take place. I mean they honestly felt like a phantom group, where as in previous games they were slowly built up and you encountered different elements and characters of said group (Think of Mad Angels or even the Heavens gang). Then when you think about the Yellowheads in comparison, they just don't stack up. Particularly when you see them get comically dispatched by your sidekicks in the Old Castle finale.

- I felt the story really dropped any sense of stakes and danger. I mean I've heard Shenmue overarching story is meant to emulate those of Wuxia stories and I've certainly watched my fair share of kung fu films. I understand it's a trope of the genre to be beaten up and essentially told your skills aren't up to par. Yet in previous games although it's not shown, death is insinuated in the case of Mark's brother and the Yellowheads certainly were out to kill you. Yet here as it happens twice in Bailu and then Niaowu you are soundly beaten and essentially are allowed to survive and leave. It kind of took away any dramatic tension there could be

- I feel that brings me to one of biggest issue I had with the game and that's essentially repetition of story beats. The way you overcome thug boss in Bailu is essentially the same with Mr. Muscles even down to performing the same move (I understand one is a reverse). Unlike the former where you had this amazing training sequence with Sun, Grandmaster Bei again is another character than gets very little development and learning this counter just doesn't feel earned

- By Li Feng's second scene I knew something was up with her and based on the Shenmue premiere video of Niao Sun I speculated it was her in disguise. What disappoints me was there was really no pay off. What she does behind the scene may be explored in future games but again because it's done off screen the revelation losses a lot of its impact

- The scene as Ryo strolls towards the harbour ready to take boat to the Old Castle and is surprisingly joined by his compatriots could have been this really powerful scene. Yet the underdevelopment of these characters again reduced what should have been this really triumphant event. Don't get me wrong I don't profess to exhausting every dialogue tree or have seen every side quest but to my knowledge your interaction with Mr. Hsu and Shiling (Shrine maiden) is relatively minimum. You can spar with Mr. Hsu and I completed a pretty basic side quest for her returning a scroll. I would love to know if there's more detailed interactions or events possible because as it stands both characters get the bare minimum of development

- Ren’s part in Shenmue 3 feels inconsistent to say the least. I have a lot to say about him so maybe I will leave it for another post

- I’ve already posted pretty lengthy breakdown about the Old Castle so I’m not going to repeat what I said. I did find it peculiar that after saving Shenhua that her and Ryo don’t share a scene thanking or even acknowledging just what went down. I mean after all those lengthy conversations in Bailu you think a little moment shared together would be cathartic but again whole end feels rushed.

So unanswered questions that immediately come to mind

- What exactly did Shenhua do to the thug in Bailu by herself? Hypnosis, mind control or something that doesn’t have a supernatural/magical connotation?

- The scroll you get in tower in Bailu the last image includes mountain cliff, where we are told the hidden treasure is likely buried. The last scene with Yuan he says Chi You Men have taken over temple there, I assume that’s where Ryo and company are traveling right at the end?

- We are told Dragon is emperor and Phoenix is empress. I find it interesting Lan Di has the Dragon mirror and Niao Sun has Phoenix mirror. Is that a coincidence?

- Niao Sun handed mirror to member of Chi You Men. Was he taking it somehere? To Tentei?

All in all I enjoyed the game I just wished the story wasn’t as under developed as it was. Love to hear what others thought too.
 
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Agree with most of the comments in here. The lack of stakes/danger, shallow character development, and minimal addition to the lore, are definitely bummers. I was willing to forgive the under developed supporting cast when Shenhua was at least getting fleshed out in Bailu, but it's super disappointing how inconsequential she is once they get to Chobu. I'm not even sure why she would continue adventuring with Ryo after her father was rescued besides the prophecy telling her to do so at the end of the game.

I can go on and on, BUT i do want to say that unlike something like The Last Jedi which personally destroyed all excitement i had for episode 9, i dont think any of shenmue 3's narrative shortcomings are irredeemable in potential sequels if we're lucky enough to get them. There was always a potential scenario where this game was a genuine disaster both narratively and from a gameplay POV. Some of you might be feeling that it is that bad, but personally i think it's a competent game that just isn't up to the high storytelling standards of the series. Onwards to Shenmue 4!
 
I'm not even sure why she would continue adventuring with Ryo after her father was rescued besides the prophecy telling her to do so at the end of the game.

Yes, it would have been nice on boat trip to cliff temple if Shenhua and Ryo shared a little scene to give us some closure on their adventure so far and why she’s continuing to follow Ryo, outside of blindly following prophecy as you mentioned.

I don’t think any of shenmue 3's narrative shortcomings are irredeemable in potential sequels if we're lucky enough to get them.

Absolutely not. I was actually thinking about this today and as disappointed as I was with story in no way did any of the characterizations of Ryo or anyone else betray their Dreamcast incarnations. If anything I wanted more story and characterizations but the way the game ends leave so much to be explored, I just hope they have time and ability to execute on that more in planned sequels.
 
Definitely story of Shenmue 3 is a let down in many ways.
We have heard that the volume of 3 is going to be larger than the second game, but as we know not at all in terms of story. To me, everything except for Body Check training felt rushed and with no details, and in the end all of the questions from beginning of the game are unanswered (we only get slight detail about Lan Di's past).
Sometimes to me it felt like side events or optional content was more fleshed out than the main story.

As few people already mentioned it:
The scene with Shenhua and the tied thug was meant to be a comedic scene, so she does not have any powers. It is simply one of those "silly" scenes where a cute little girl has her own dangerous side and scares a big buff dude.
Same with Ren, at first he looks at her and smirks but she gives "the look" and he becomes scared - this is the power of Japanese humor.
 
I found the overall game a mix baged somestuff done well somestuff done bad.
The end though was very unsatisfying.

It felt rushed and all over the place when I confirmed to go to the Castle, It felt out of place when the Shrine Maiden and Hu show up but none of the depth of character development had been made to feel them warranted compared to the Yellow Head take down in SII and how that was handled. The weird "go upstairs and get my items back" sudden quest drop felt awkward and out of place. Even more when people said that the castle was dangerous to go to before that, because of all the thugs. Even Ren felt kinda tact on compared to what was established in Shenmue 2, and his characterization different.

I'd rather the whole part with Lan Di, and the castle wasn't in the game since it all feels very anti-climatic for all of the reasons @code I name previously stated. By the end of Shenmue 2 I felt that Ryo had grown a fair-bit as a martial artist, but Shenmue 3 end just felt out of place, like he was about to get a little bit of development then it goes back to Square one again and I'm confused has WTF even is going on now.

The very end doesn't even explain why Shenhua is still with them since all she wanted was to get her father back.
Lan Di might have died in the fire yet Ryo and Ren still feel a need to go after a ChiYouMen base because if I'm getting this right he thinks Lan Di might be at it?! And even though the mirror is now gone Ren is like "Treasure"...

The weird thing is up that point I felt the game was okay nothing amazing but a good enough Shenmue game with the money they had.(Even with my personal dislike of the combat and how old moves were handled.) But damn the end part was really off and soured me... The game barely answered many of the things already established that people wanted answers to in this game. Yu had a chance to drop some of the bombs about Ziming/Xiuying Hong, reveal some of the truth to Sunming Zhao mystery death or even more of the Yuanda Zhu connection to Zhao/Iwao.

Still I do like you can restart the game and carry the stuff on to a new play from the start again. But it really didn't leave me feeling any stakes for a Shenmue 4...
 
I agree, even if one says fuck all that story elements.... they at least could have told us more about WHAT THE SHENMUE TREE IS becauase it gives the game its name!!!
The tree is in Bailu village and we get no explanation as to what this tree is.

It's like either

1. The story has been changed/cut so much that these story elements are gone now

2. The shenmue story in it self was never that good and complex all along and we didn't notice because of good storytelling of shen 1 and 2
 
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I felt the game suffered from lack of stakes, characters that felt much more shallow than previous entries, odd pacing and repetition.

Absolutely. There was no point in this game that I felt like anything could happen to these characters like I did In the majority of the Kowloon arc for example in Shenmue 2. Part of that comes from the way that the villains were handled in this installment imo. Not to mention the Red Snakes are not menacing AT ALL! The Mad Angels and Yellow Head gang felt like gangs to take seriously by comparison.

Even Chai was treated as a small obstacle not posing any real threat in this one. I have no idea why they even brought him back in this one. Not to mention the fact that its meant for Ryo to lose to every "major" villain in this story to the point you just go "whatever". The way it is handled in this installment was kind of animeish and formulaic unlike the mandotory losses in previous games. Kid gets whooped, villains let him go for no real reason, he trains to learn a new move that someone claims he is not ready to learn, Learns move after some training, completely mops the floor with previous opponent that destroyed him. Them letting Ryo (and Ren) go without consequence was so annoying.

Edit: @code l name I responded to that point before reading your complete post. Seems like you are typing everything I felt/ am feeling myself. I actually like the game but these are things that I wish were handled better and things I KNOW could have been handled better.

I really wish other NPC's got extensive dialogue that fleshed them out like Shenhua got. At least the characters that came with you to the castle. Ryo's conversations with Shenhua is the most character we have gotten out of him in the entire series.
 
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Pleased with Shenmue 3 on balance. I think they went for the Shenmue depth in terms of learning moves, part time jobs, mini games etc and took that to a new level, but the consequence of that was the storyline and QTEs. For me that was taking much of what I love about Shenmue 3 out of the game. I still enjoyed it but thought that element was very underdeveloped.

Combat and QTEs was awful, much preferred the S1 & S2 model.

BUT it is a relatively cheap game I'd imagine compared to the originals and how much game development must cost these days.
 
I think one of the biggest disappointments is spending literally all day (real day, not SIII day) building up my characters kung fu and raising cash (only through bloody gambling) yet the ending sequence is over within an hour.
 
I was really hoping we'd meet Ziming in this.

I also find it hilarious that Ryo get his ass kicked, nearly killed and a day later is still like "I WILL avenge my father!"
 
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I can't imagine the final section going down like this if Yu Suzuki had more budget. It felt extremely rushed and even Niaowu showed budget constraints.
So many questions unanswered and after experiencing S1 and especially S2's Yellow head siege you would expect it to be pretty tough infiltrating Lan Di's castle but nope it was a joke. His henchmen going down with one shot was very underwhelming. You can tell a lot of things got cut big time.

Overall I still like the game. Wish we would of had more character development and story more fleshed out but the final act was cut to shreds. I guess that's the price for having a small budget. I hope we get Shenmue 4
 
How many of the kickstarter goals are actually in the game? No Baisha, no character perspective system, no Three Kingdoms style siege game...
 
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