New Interview with Yu Suzuki - Brought to you by Shenmue Dojo and Phantom River Stone

Would you rather play a design-reconsidered Shenmue series that contains the entire story (so, I guess to S7 as per Suzuki) or the trimmed story version (up to S5) that Suzuki seems to be holding out for?
Which one is unabashedly “Shenmue”? That one.

Tbh, I’m not really opposed to YS going back and just redrafting his plans for ‘The Old Man and the (Giant) Peach,’ or even taking a swing at some of the later plans for VFRPG, if that were something he really wanted to do. If it’s Shenmue IV, I just want a FREE game, with all the baggage that comes with it. That’s what I play Shenmue for: To get neck deep in a confluence of about two decades of arcade and home console game features. The story alone is just going to be better in a novel format; It’s a better medium for that.

If there’s one thing that makes me somewhat hopeful, it’s that he probably has some level of confidence that he still has a chance to make Shenmue IV his way. If not, I feel like we probably would have seen a novel at this point. Time will tell.

I remember seeing the footage you're talking about but to my knowledge that's all that was ever shown of it, which only cements my suspicion that it was cut relatively early. If it progressed to anything approaching final art stages, it would definitely have been featured in a trailer or screenshots.
Never mind. I’m not really interested in litigating this. I thought you were implying that Baisha wasn’t in scope for the project when they set out to make it, but it seems you were just saying they wouldn’t have been only working on Baisha after finishing Bailu and Niaowu.
 
Which one is unabashedly “Shenmue”? That one.
Shenmue means something different to pretty much everyone who plays it.
If it’s Shenmue IV, I just want a FREE game, with all the baggage that comes with it. That’s what I play Shenmue for: To get neck deep in a confluence of about two decades of arcade and home console game features.
There's definitely some magic to the bridge between arcade and home console that S1 primarily explored; I'm just not sure how much the rest of the series would have plumbed the depths apart from the ouroboros of it being ostensibly the origin story for an arcade fighting game character. One of my favorite touches in S3 were the old timey arcade games.
The story alone is just going to be better in a novel format; It’s a better medium for that.
I used to disagree with this sentiment more. I still think Shenmue's story has the potential to work best as a game.
I thought you were implying that Baisha wasn’t in scope for the project when they set out to make it, but it seems you were just saying they wouldn’t have been only working on Baisha after finishing Bailu and Niaowu.
Right. I think they set out the scope of the entire game pre-KS and Baisha was probably one of those things that was always problematic (likely why it was a stretch goal in the first place) and so it was probably cut relatively early. I'm curious as to why Suzuki thought it was so important though, especially since his claims of Suzhou being the next area appear to confirm that Baisha has been 100% cancelled.
 
I didn't read through all the pages so I don't know if someone mentioned this earlier.
Does 5 years for Shenmue 4 seem like a very long time?
I'm a programmer, though not a game developer, but I have some knowledge of game engines.

5 years for Shenmue 4 seems like a long time considering we already have Shenmue 3 in Unreal Engine.
Surely, there is code reuse. Even further 5 years for Shenmue 5, but only 6 years total if they are worked on in parallel.
Maybe 3 years each then lol. I get that there are synergies by doing both at the same time.

I'm also aware the kick starter took way longer than estimated... but 5 years to develop seems like an over estimate to me.
Is he looking to start from scratch again? Only interested in AAA quality?

I don't know maybe all the modeling takes time. Maybe he didn't like the results of his AI experiments that could have saved him time.

Lastly, sounds like he actually did work on Baisha and maybe some other parts with the pitch demo. He's got a head start.
Maybe just takes longer with less staff I guess.
 
The hashtag might need looking at as it seems to be a push for shenmue 4 and 5 so it might need to reflect that.

Always thought abandoning #SaveShenmue was slightly off--I've flirted with posting the old hashtag once in awhile. Sure, getting HD and lll kickstarter were enormous wins, but the series won't be truly saved until finished in Shenmue 5.

Should we do both LetsGetShenmue and SaveShenmue simultaneous? Perhaps drop the series number and do the post-a-thons on both 4th and 5th days of the month? Go even more ambitious with doing 1st day of month with Ch1 content, 2nd day with content from ll, 3rd day so on and so forth...?
 
I think we should keep the social media taglines the same, if we start to include Shenmue V I can see how a lot of people outside our eager community could scoff at that. Focusing on one step at a time seems more feasible so putting all our attention to Shenmue IV & The Second Season of the anime seems right to me.
 
SUZHOU
Truly a beautiful location. This would be stunning in shenmue's world. Especially when yu is a perfectionist in that respect. Shenmue 3's locations were so colourful and vibrant. One of its best points. :)
 
5 years for Shenmue 4 seems like a long time considering we already have Shenmue 3 in Unreal Engine.
If it were possible to reuse the engine in a budget/timeframe that was amicable, it would already be done by now. The reality is that the team that worked on S3 has likely been disbanded so any new team is going to have to familiarize themselves with the engine, which can sometimes be more costly than just setting it up yourself depending on the goals. Aside from the combat and maybe some of the minigames, Shenmue isn't that difficult to program; it's time consuming and expensive because it's virtually all story, scripted sequences, cutscenes, giant open environments etc.
Is he looking to start from scratch again? Only interested in AAA quality?
He's probably looking at starting from scratch no matter what at this point. AAA quality is totally off the table though it would be nice to get some clarification on this point.
Even further 5 years for Shenmue 5, but only 6 years total if they are worked on in parallel.
Maybe 3 years each then lol. I get that there are synergies by doing both at the same time.
How could they be worked on in parallel? The team would finish the content in one game before starting another unless there was zero work left to be done in a certain department, which is almost never the case even after a game ships these days.

There are tiers to how difficult/time consuming it needs to be. Even using the existing S3 engine, reusing all the NPCs and character models etc. You're still talking about building massive 3D hub worlds with minigames, story and dialogue that needs to be written/translated/voice acted for all the scenarios and NPCs, QTE sequences and cutscenes that need to be storyboarded directed etc. New animations for all these sequences and combat. It's still a crazy amount of work requiring a decent-sized team and that's basically just to play a Shenmue 3 reskin two more times. This is also assuming he has at least a high-level plan of exactly what's going to be in each area, which may or may not be the case.
 
Yu Suzuki said that he had been on a trip to Suzhou 3 or 4 times and never to Guilin. Considering how he creates the locations he hasn't been, I can only imagine the detail they will try to make Suzhou. Imagine the train journey before that too. :) Shenmue 4 has the potential to be an amazing adventure. :)

It's worth fighting a little more and see what happens this year.
 
I'm not so sure about the development times we're managing, even those given by Yu Suzuki himself, given that AI tools are cutting times by half in many areas.
And its only getting better every year.
Isn't just that you can already get an existing Shenmue asset and get improved meshes and textures (with lots of variations), we're at the point of being able to input a reference image and get a new 3D model. And like vfXander points: while good geometry is important for modern good looking visuals, lightning and shading have more weight for the overall result (and thats on Unreal Engine end).

Honestly, I have nothing solid to support it but my believe is that Suzuki is playing safe for his sake. And that while he probably based part or the most of his AI research in gameplay implementations, I can't believe his engineering side hasn't made him fiddle with AI aiming for production (tailored to his taste). Any of us can already get opensource tools and train the algorithms in order to output Shenmue related content. The results will vary depending basically in the adjust made to the tool code (in this area YS skills doesn't play alone, as he stated that he will meet with AI experts) and the quality and quantity of datasets used to train the model (YS owns even the never-seen stuff to that purpose).

So maybe we're at 5 years for Shenmue 4 from now, next year that date adjust at 2.5 and the next just 1 year for release.
 
That's a sophist-relativist approach! 😠😡
It's true though. Some people like Shenmue for the epic story, some people like it for the mundane gameplay, some people like the cheesy voice acting, some people like the attention to detail, some people like the NPCs etc. Any one thing that makes up Shenmue is considered core to the series by someone. It's worth asking, seriously, what would a Shenmue 4 (or 5) even be like to play? Shenmue doesn't really have a formula and to the extent that it does (ie: Ryo leisurely enters a new location, deals with the local gang loosely affiliated with the CYM, learns some martial arts and makes some new friends before narrowly missing Lan Di) is obviously not sustainable for 2-4 more sequels. So many things about Shenmue are at odds with each other.
 
Thanks for your polite reply as always. Let me start clarifying that whenever I use the angry emoji its not like Im really angry, even annoyed (more on the contrary). The idea of philosophists engaging in rude discussion is something i've always found funny.
Like in arts, Van Gogh and Gaugain sumo-wrestling (fgs, this derail of mine is bad).
Excuse me if it gave you the wrong impression.
I partially agree with your stance (here and at many other of your posts).

The main thing I agree its that whatever Shenmue formula is, its not sustainable for 4 more games. It needs closure. Differing about 2 being inappropiate but its in my post history that imo (unpopular) the best would be wrapping up in ONE big firework. Could be episodical but one game afterall.

In terms of feelings towards Shenmue, certainly is what anyone playing it feels it is. But when it comes as defining the core of gameplay, there's some parameters that can't be argued. I can't come and say "Shenmue is a visual novel".
The main game loop is adventure, 3D visual presentation, advancing through conversations with different NPCs, interacting with elements from the scenario... Then there's multiple Game segments with different mechanics like the sokoban, fighting (1 on 1 or battle), racing, etc. But those segments doesn't substitute the main loop. If anyone states that Shenmue is a racing game with fighting and rpg elements, that person is just incorrect.

Take for example one of my (and yours surely) favourite game ever: classic FFVII. There was exploration, battle, vehicular combat, breeding game, snowboarding, strategy... But the core that define it is rpg. No one can say that it was a shooter because the submarine part is the favourite.
And if we ask: as FFVII shares many elements with Shenmue, does it has Shenmue vibes? The answer stills being no, because those element aren't interacted in a remotely similar way (not between them, nor with the player).

If Shenmue 4 gets a visual and gameplay downgrade all the way to Syberia, we and almost everyone will be saying that Shenmue 4 is a downgrade and that it feels like Syberia.
Same the other way around, a Syberia episode aiming for Shenmue 3 scope would get listed among games with Shenmue heavy vibes.

Shenmue 4 or 5 will be played in a way that a line of coherence can be traced from S1, 2 and 3.

Excuse my english! It gets worse when Im trying to explain anything different that my name, address and basic stuff.
 
RALLY CALL!

#Shenmue 4 has publisher/partner interest!

Join us on the 4th of June to TWEET AS ONE to show the world Shenmue should be finished!

We step up together or risk losing all the hard work we have done so far!

On 4th June at 8pm BST, 9pm CET, 3pm EST, 12pm PST, 4am JST, we join together to tweet as one voice to get #LetsGetShenmue4 trending.

We will send the following message:

To continue #Shenmue @YSNET_Inc need a partner.

Who is going to step up and help?

#LetsGetShenmue4

@SEGA, @SEGA_OFFICIAL, @Playstation, @yosp, @BIGMODEgames, @EpicPublishing, @LimitedRunJosh, @devolverdigital, @TencentGames, @ryanpayton, @CedricBiscay


Video Download link Folder (Please do not share until the Tweet time!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CvXeLsgVbE6hGfewC0omE80xY63LL4fX?usp=drive_link

 
I'm not so sure about the development times we're managing, even those given by Yu Suzuki himself, given that AI tools are cutting times by half in many areas.
And its only getting better every year.
Isn't just that you can already get an existing Shenmue asset and get improved meshes and textures (with lots of variations), we're at the point of being able to input a reference image and get a new 3D model. And like vfXander points: while good geometry is important for modern good looking visuals, lightning and shading have more weight for the overall result (and thats on Unreal Engine end).

Honestly, I have nothing solid to support it but my believe is that Suzuki is playing safe for his sake. And that while he probably based part or the most of his AI research in gameplay implementations, I can't believe his engineering side hasn't made him fiddle with AI aiming for production (tailored to his taste). Any of us can already get opensource tools and train the algorithms in order to output Shenmue related content. The results will vary depending basically in the adjust made to the tool code (in this area YS skills doesn't play alone, as he stated that he will meet with AI experts) and the quality and quantity of datasets used to train the model (YS owns even the never-seen stuff to that purpose).

So maybe we're at 5 years for Shenmue 4 from now, next year that date adjust at 2.5 and the next just 1 year for release.
I haven't mentioned AI because, for game development, is still in its infancy and if you want to reach a good level, it might take a while. But you are absolutely right saying that's getting better every year, and so are game dev tools in general.

As for models, a lot can be done with simple photogrammetry, especially if Nanite is used. A couple of trustworthy scan artist on location for a few days could save months and months of modeling and texturing. And, likely, you can find most of those models already anyway. There's still work to be done to create the environment (although there's also Procedural Generated Content that's a huge boost, especially when you need to change the level design), but a lot of steps are drastically reduced for much faster iterations.
 
Maybe he just meant we won’t see the full Xiuying/Ziming arc completed, doesn’t necessarily mean Ziming won’t be in the story at all.

Still, whichever way, he’s clearly determined not to rush through it - that’s good news.
100%

Ziming will be touched upon, but he specifically said the Xiuying/Ziming relationship would be relegated to side content, not him on the whole.

This was a wonderful read and I was (literally) on the edge of my seat and got giddy at a few answers.

Has anyone invested thousands into GME? With the price going up quite a bit, now may be a time to cash in 😉
 
What kind of lunch did Yu Suzuki treat you guys to?

Would have been cool if he wined and dined you guys at Kitcho in Kyoto and casually dropped thousands of $$ to keep up the appearance of the studio being flush with cash.

No doubt that should be his strategy if he’s courting potential partners.
 
Anyone think 4-5 will conclude the Lan Di revenge arc and the rest of the story Yu mentions writing in book form will be the destruction of the Chiyoumen?
 
What kind of lunch did Yu Suzuki treat you guys to?

Would have been cool if he wined and dined you guys at Kitcho in Kyoto and casually dropped thousands of $$ to keep up the appearance of the studio being flush with cash.

No doubt that should be his strategy if he’s courting potential partners.
Probably this
1715836488178.png
 
Back