"No throws" speculation (how will it work?)

Reading “no throws” was one of the most deflating things I’ve read in a while. We’ll see how they fill the void, but it’s kind of hard to speculate with limited info/footage.

I’ll be expecting a pretty shallow fighting system. I’ve kind of stopped expecting Shenmue 3 to be the Shenmue game I’ve dreamed of. At the same time though, this game’s existence is a dream in itself. As long as it gets the job done, I’m good. I’ll start to let my imagination run wild once Shenmue 4 (with a bigger budget) gets announced due to the critical/commercial success of Shenmue 3.
 
Throwing moves were never high up on the list of things I love about Shenmue tbh.
 
Yokosuka said:
why not let Ryo Hazuki to develop his own mix of Chinese and Japanese culture to become the ultimate martial artist ever?
Now, the free battles are going to be very one-dimensional whatever the value gotten from remade animations and moveset extension.
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I believe and have faith in YSnet retconning the no-throws into storyline. Ryo already has been mixing his juijitsu throws into Kung Fu strikes and kicks, especially in Hong Kong. Shenmue IV (and hopefully V) will bring back throws when Ryo masters a lot of new techniques from the friendly masters in the Guilin. They might not appreciate his throws, therefor force him/us to focus only on Chinese martial arts.

How is ~100 returing moves shallow or one dimensional?? Plenty of variety in the other moves. Throws are cool to watch and give a sense of accomplishment and are on a higher level of gameplay skill, but must admit no matter how hard I try, they're never moves I choose to use first and foremost; surely I'm in the majority there? Not saying it isn't disappointing--it is--though definitely a cut I can stomach for greater good of Shenmue III.

Assuming the throws learned in game, such as Shozo's Shadow Step or at least Guixiang's Hind Blow will remain, simply for being apart of the storylines as well as having real command inputs and passably being strike attacks. Presumably, hopefully, only the throws which were dependent upon just pressing B at the exact correct timing/position are gone.

Best case scenario: at least the back B/back-back B+forward B/forward-forward B and two throws referenced above will be included. The holds where you can kick backwards, Guang's Wild Throw or aforementioned situational lucky throws won't. Middle ground: only Shadow Strike and Hind Blow. Worst case, none of them, which even then won't be too terrible, albiet missed slightly.
 
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On my most recent playthrough, I've focused alot of my time building up every move possible. Throwing Fuku-San all around the Dojo has been quite entertaining.

Although disappointing to read, it's not the end of the world. I'm hoping they can implement them into cutscenes/QTE's.

Sacrifices had to be made, we'll get over it.
 
xatruio said:
I believe and have faith in YSnet retconning the no-throws into storyline. Ryo already has been mixing his juijitsu throws into Kung Fu strikes and kicks, especially in Hong Kong. Shenmue IV (and hopefully V) will bring back throws when Ryo masters a lot of new techniques from the friendly masters in the Guilin. They might not appreciate his throws, therefor force him/us to focus only on Chinese martial arts.

How is ~100 returing moves shallow or one dimensional?? Plenty of variety in the other moves. Throws are cool to watch and give a sense of accomplishment and are on a higher level of gameplay skill, but must admit no matter how hard I try, they're never moves I choose to use first and foremost; surely I'm in the majority there? Not saying it isn't disappointing--it is--though definitely a cut I can stomach for greater good of Shenmue III.

Assuming the throws learned in game, such as Shozo's Shadow Step or at least Guixiang's Hind Blow will remain, simply for being apart of the storylines as well as having real command inputs and passably being strike attacks. Presumably, hopefully, only the throws which were dependent upon just pressing B at the exact correct timing/position are gone.

Best case scenario: at least the back B/back-back B+forward B/forward-forward B and two throws referenced above will be included. The holds where you can kick backwards, Guang's Wild Throw or aforementioned situational lucky throws won't. Middle ground: only Shadow Strike and Hind Blow. Worst case, none of them, which even then won't be too terrible, albiet missed slightly.
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You hit the nail on the head. It’s all about how it’s presented in the context of Ryo’s martial arts training and enlightenment. More than moves, we may be missing many pieces of the greater picture...
 
At first I rarely did throw moves, like most back when they first played the games, just button mashed. But as time went on and Shenmue became my favourite franchise of all time, I dived deeper into the combat system and use the throw moves way more frequently. Tiger Storm, Cross Charge and Machine Gun Fist were the most awesome powerful moves that made you feel like a boss once you really mastered them.

That being said what most of you is saying about it not being a deal breaker and it's something most will get over, I agree it's not a deal breaker and I'm not massively upset about it, in-fact the more time that goes by the more I accept it and someone made a great point about how the feel of the story and the immersion of the world could be so good, and sold so well that we'll be immersed and love the combat anyway.

But what I'm asking is what does it mean? Yu's statement was very vague, my expectation is that Yu managed to recreate every single move and animation from the old games except throw moves? But I find that hard to believe because I'm sure NOT ALL the throw moves would be hard to animate? What's the difference between Cross Charge and Elbow Assault? They are both concussive strikes animation wise? So why not just include the ones he could? Why omitt every single throw move? Is it a case of he couldn't add like 5 throw moves or something so he decided to remove the whole system? I hear you guys saying that it would be super expensive but how? He motioned captured punches and kicks but not throws? I believe Yu but I don't think cost was a factor I think maybe it was just more hard to animate in the new engine. I'd understand if some moves were removed but the whole set of throw moves? Weird. Anyway I just hope he found a way to incorporate some of the more strike based throw moves in there somehow. Like Machine Gun Fist isn't much different than Lau Chan's triple punch kick from Virtua FIghter 3 onwards (Master Baihu does this move too)
2qxcglx.gif
1q4C.gif

The left is a grab while the right is punch and kicks, I don't need the canned animation of the opponent taking the punches, that can be altered as long as we have machine gun fist. So I hope Yu at least thought of that for some of the more grapple-less throw moves, If the grappling animations was even the problem to begin with.

And yes if he hasn't, I will survive.
 
xatruio said:
I believe and have faith in YSnet retconning the no-throws into storyline. Ryo already has been mixing his juijitsu throws into Kung Fu strikes and kicks, especially in Hong Kong. Shenmue IV (and hopefully V) will bring back throws when Ryo masters a lot of new techniques from the friendly masters in the Guilin. They might not appreciate his throws, therefor force him/us to focus only on Chinese martial arts.

How is ~100 returing moves shallow or one dimensional?? Plenty of variety in the other moves. Throws are cool to watch and give a sense of accomplishment and are on a higher level of gameplay skill, but must admit no matter how hard I try, they're never moves I choose to use first and foremost; surely I'm in the majority there? Not saying it isn't disappointing--it is--though definitely a cut I can stomach for greater good of Shenmue III.

Assuming the throws learned in game, such as Shozo's Shadow Step or at least Guixiang's Hind Blow will remain, simply for being apart of the storylines as well as having real command inputs and passably being strike attacks. Presumably, hopefully, only the throws which were dependent upon just pressing B at the exact correct timing/position are gone.

Best case scenario: at least the back B/back-back B+forward B/forward-forward B and two throws referenced above will be included. The holds where you can kick backwards, Guang's Wild Throw or aforementioned situational lucky throws won't. Middle ground: only Shadow Strike and Hind Blow. Worst case, none of them, which even then won't be too terrible, albiet missed slightly.
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THIS is what I'm talking about, it's difficult to ascertain what Yu exactly means by "throw moves".
 
Good Baihu example there, too. Surely some of the "throw" B button moves which are actually strikes--two I brought up and the GIF above--could be included.
 
While I was a fan of doing throw moves because they were the most fun to watch, it was weird, I never knew how to execute them on bosses.
I'm happy about the different difficulties (also would be great if they are for "adventure mode also", like having to do extra steps talking to different people).
While the old system was ok, it was mostly a parry counterattack system (with some kinda broken moves).
I hope they can tweak this to be more challenging.
 
I can't see them having cut ALL of the throws. Maybe he just means the actual throwing of the opponent moves. Clearly, moves like Demon's Triangle are important to the story, so I don't see them being cut. Or moves that Ryo learns from other martial artists, like Hind Blow, Wild Throw, Cross Charge, Shadow Step, or Shadow Blade. But who knows.

I don't think it is likely, but does anyone think that maybe he just meant there will be no throws for the demo that they cut for MAGIC? They have said in separate places that all of the moves from the first two games will be included. Maybe no new throws?
 
24Nathan said:
I can't see them having cut ALL of the throws. Maybe he just means the actual throwing of the opponent moves. Clearly, moves like Demon's Triangle are important to the story, so I don't see them being cut. Or moves that Ryo learns from other martial artists, like Hind Blow, Wild Throw, Cross Charge, Shadow Step, or Shadow Blade. But who knows.

I don't think it is likely, but does anyone think that maybe he just meant there will be no throws for the demo that they cut for MAGIC? They have said in separate places that all of the moves from the first two games will be included. Maybe no new throws?
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That's why I made this topic, it's just way too vague of a statement for something this important, I know most of us have come to terms with it now but it was an important revelation. I'm in the same boat Nathan, I'm feeling Yu might have been taken out of context a bit, same with the "no supernatural elements" and even the "some NPC's wont speak" thing I bet there's way more to those statements and they are not as final as we think.
 
Wasn't the statement from the moment when Yu Suzuki showed the press trailer?

I hope that what he meant was that the trailer couldn't feature throw moves yet as they have to improve the animations and functionality of these.

Would be a cold glass of water? Absolutely.
Would the third entry lose it's soul? No way.
 
Yea, hard to know for sure about anything really until we’re playing Shenmue III live on our own. Context is king and any concern could be a pawn ie misunderstanding...
 
Nemesis said:
Wasn't the statement from the moment when Yu Suzuki showed the press trailer?

I hope that what he meant was that the trailer couldn't feature throw moves yet as they have to improve the animations and functionality of these.

Would be a cold glass of water? Absolutely.
Would the third entry lose it's soul? No way.
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It was and the IGN report mentioned it as well. The safe assumption is the throw button command has gone. However I'd (on a personal level) expect to see some of those throw type moves in the game but with different inputs.
 
There were definitely no throw button in the demo. Either this is a QTE feature or YSnet decided to remove the mechanic after the ESRB definition.
 
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