PC Gamer Interview with D3T about bringing Shenmue 1 & 2 to PC/back to life.

[Billkwando]

I see what you are saying spud, I just think that waiting 3 months until the japanese release date to form a conclusive opinion about this after its already been out in other territories is asking way too much and unrealistic. its the time frame in which everything has happened and the warning signs we have seen so far and everything thats going to happen between now and then that has me worried, if what we have seen so far is any indication. We know the original games are the greatest games of all time, and nothing will ever change their perfection but that article just seems like its trying to hide all the skeletons in the closet from this "much to be desired" launch so far via PR non sense.

I liked this post.....and then I got to the conspiracy accusations at the end and unliked it. As Ryo would say, "So close!".

 

[Billkwando]

Great interview. I wondered about those moon phases and the physics behind Lucky Hit before. An interesting fact is that they tried to add What's Shenmue and the Passport disc but couldn't find the source code. And as I suspected before, some issues were likely due to business decisions instead of developers not caring. It would have been great if Sega assisted more with translations of developer notes, more manpower, etc.

It also seems that my guess regarding emulation and audio was correct (after @Kodama had wondered if claims that it wasn't emulated were valid).

I do find it unbelievable that SEGA couldn't get them ONE bilingual support person at least. I've hand translated stuff extensively, not knowing Japanese, with web tools (not Google Translate), and it's brutal. I can't even imagine.

and a truckload of other Maximum the Hormone and Hirakawachi 1-chome videos.

Japanese is hard, and if I had to do it with nothing but Google Translate, I would say Japanese is pretty much impossible.

 

[Billkwando]

Bit ironic Bill. That's precisely why it shouldn't have been released yet.

LOL fair enough. I've said it before in other threads, but basically "Better early than never". The more a project goes overdue and overbudget, the closer it gets to just getting cancelled.

I'd rather have a game that's messed up and gets fixed later, than nothing. Which is what we've had for the past 15 years or so.


Edit: Didn't mean to triple post....just replying as I see stuff. If a mod is bothered by it and wants to merge them somehow, be my guest. :)

 

[Guangyan Wang]

So they had since late 2015 to figure out a way to release Shenmue 2 without horrible music. I don’t understand how they screwed that up: they had the Xbox source code! They may have worked hard on it but that doesn’t excuse such a mishap.

I’m not a petty hater: Shenmue 2 is my favorite game and I was looking forward to playing it in HD and I can’t because it’s an aural mess. Should I just meekly accept it and pat them on the back and say “you did the best you could” because it was so hard to develop?

Is that how precious we are around dt3 that to state that they have released inferior versions to the originals is to be deemed an overreacting extremist? What a sad state of affairs. And don’t show me steam high ratings: we all know that is based on people’s good will towards the originals and not on the quality of the ports.

 

[xettex]

Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but couldn't dt3 have recorded the original music straight from a Dreamcast/Xbox as mp3's and used these mp3's in the HD version instead of what they actually attempted?

 

[punkmanced]

I'd rather have a game that's messed up and gets fixed later, than nothing. Which is what we've had for the past 15 years or so.

Right, but I doubt that would've been the case here. You still would have gotten these games a few months later, in a much more completed state, with little to no backlash/ headache.

The issue isn't "broken game or nothing", it's "rushed and broken VS delayed and fixed".
(...Assuming the fixes are possible)

 

[Zoyous]

Is that how precious we are around dt3 that to state that they have released inferior versions to the originals is to be deemed an overreacting extremist? What a sad state of affairs. And don’t show me steam high ratings: we all know that is based on people’s good will towards the originals and not on the quality of the ports.

No, there are valid criticisms to be made. But there's a way they can be made with tact and eloquence, with a reasonable assumption that it will actually be somewhat effective (e.g., the Issues & Bugs thread). If you choose to use hyperbole, then you can expect that it will be taken only as seriously as someone typing in all-caps. For example, using a phrase like "we all know" followed by an unverified assertion that conveniently aligns with your own opinion.

There's also the matter of how many times do you insist on repeating the same points? Is the general community here expected to accept that the forums will be bogged down with a handful of users' repetitions of the same editorial nature until after every issue has been patched - not to mention the user(s) vowing to remain upset even after everything is patched? If someone brings up a positive review or a tweet, are we to expect that the users who are bent out of shape will continue to repeat how upset they are? What's the point? You think it will get the work done faster, or cause Sony and Microsoft to speed up their patch approvals process?

 

[Jibby]

lol, crazy to think that when I brought that up I was accused of making "misguided conspiracy theories about it being emulation for the sole purpose of artificially manufacturing more outrage"... and by a mod of all people...

Genuine question: what's me being a mod got to do with it? You didn't see me handing out and warnings or bans for you saying that, so it really isn't that relevant is it? Or do you just want a reason to feel attacked?

Also as a sidenote, there is zero confirmation of emulation in the article.

 

[Kodama]

Genuine question: what's me being a mod got to do with it? You didn't see me handing out and warnings or bans for you saying that, so it really isn't that relevant is it? It wouldn't be any different if I wasn't a moderator.

Genuine answer: Because qualifications for moderators usually require one to be level headed, objective, and not prone to making inflammatory posts. Trying to paint me as a manipulative villain simply for daring to criticize(or in this case, just question...correctly) our favorite game isn't something we expect our mods to do...

But please this is off topic if you want to talk it out let's do it via a more appropriate social topic...

 

[Guangyan Wang]

No, there are valid criticisms to be made. But there's a way they can be made with tact and eloquence, with a reasonable assumption that it will actually be somewhat effective (e.g., the Issues & Bugs thread). If you choose to use hyperbole, then you can expect that it will be taken only as seriously as someone typing in all-caps. For example, using a phrase like "we all know" followed by an unverified assertion that conveniently aligns with your own opinion.

There's also the matter of how many times do you insist on repeating the same points? Is the general community here expected to accept that the forums will be bogged down with a handful of users' repetitions of the same editorial nature until after every issue has been patched - not to mention the user(s) vowing to remain upset even after everything is patched? If someone brings up a positive review or a tweet, are we to expect that the users who are bent out of shape will continue to repeat how upset they are? What's the point? You think it will get the work done faster, or cause Sony and Microsoft to speed up their patch approvals process?

Thank you for insulting my posting style: I have actually tried to be fair and have posted bugs in that thread. The same point must be made if they are still not fixed. I will say no more. Fine enjoy your inept port if it makes you feel so superior to those upset with it. I will meekly go back to my Dreamcast and let the Sega/dt3 love-in continue undisturbed.

 

[Bambi]

An interesting fact is that they tried to add What's Shenmue and the Passport disc but couldn't find the source code.

It's incredible that a company the size of Sega were so bad at archiving this stuff. Didn't they lose the source code for Panzer Dragon Saga in its entirety?

Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but couldn't dt3 have recorded the original music straight from a Dreamcast/Xbox as mp3's and used these mp3's in the HD version instead of what they actually attempted?

If all else fails this may be the approach they need to take with a couple of the more troublesome tracks.

 

[GYO6161]

If they lost the source code of the passport i think its pretty safe to say anything revolving the Saturn version is sadly gone too. They might still have some images/videos but im not hopeful on anything playable or tangible.

 

[Jibby]

Genuine answer: Because qualifications for moderators usually require one to be level headed, objective, and not prone to making inflammatory posts.

And my response was all of those things. I'm pretty sure challenging baseless speculation/borderline conspiracy theories is indeed level headed. That kind of stuff doesn't have a place on this forum. We allowed speculation on stuff like the Dark1X tweets because they actually had a reputable backing, however your post had no such thing.

But please this is off topic if you want to talk it out let's do it via a more appropriate social topic...

You're the one that brought me up. As mentioned before, my door is always open for a PM if you've got any complaints.

 

[sporkaganza]

Doesn't it get boring for people to repeat the same 5 talking points for three weeks? Apparently not

 

[pilman]

If they lost the source code of the passport i think its pretty safe to say anything revolving the Saturn version is sadly gone too. They might still have some images/videos but im not hopeful on anything playable or tangible.

During the period Sammy bought into SEGA shares and between the time of the death of the Dreamcast, I would imagine there was some sort of downsizing and cost cutting, not unusual by any means. I was working for a company that was bought out and over time cost cutting occurred to an extent that backup servers either had failed and it wasn't worth the cost of recovering data, or due to legacy equipment and the cost of data recovery it simply wasn't worth it. In many cases infrastructure and the costs to repair would have outweighed the benefit to customers. If you recall, SEGA lost something as minor as the shenmue.com website so it wouldn't really surprise me.

 

[B-Man]

Wow. Just wow. I assumed that they rushed the development of these ports, but the truth is far worse than that. They've been working on this for almost three years and this is what they ended up with? I'm not even worried about the patches anymore. It doesn't matter because these games will never be fixed. The foundation is just too flimsy. The only only way to fix these would be to start over.

Why did Sega ever stop using M2? They are a Japanese developer that were universally praised for their outstanding work on the 3DS which involved both porting and emulating Sega games. They are also responsible for developing the WiiWare title Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth, which I thought was excellent and every bit as good as most actual classic Castlevania games.

D3T obviously tried their best but they were simply unqualified for the job. They literally couldn't even read the source code comments or any of Shenmue I's game logic. They also seemed to have quite a bit of trouble grasping the way the Dreamcast hardware worked. And it sounds like Sega offered no support for any of this. Just threw an enormous archive of data at them and told them to get to work.

At the same time, it's quite interesting to read about just how detailed some aspects of these games were. Things like the moon and even the Lucky Hit logic. They could have faked these things and no one playing the game would have known the difference. It's a testament to Yu Suzuki's dedication to creating a living, breathing virtual world and goes to show why these games are so special. It's also pretty amazing that they were able to achieve all of this on 20 year old technology. Suzuki-san truly is a madman and a genius.

 

[高野和泉]

I thought Yu is using OG assets as reference points and unreleased assets from S1 & S2 to help with development of S3??? How did Sega turn that stuff over to Ysnet for S3 if they lost em all? Or maybe I'm missing something here? Are we talking portions or Wholesale?

 

[spud1897]

I thought Yu is using OG assets as reference points and unreleased assets from S1 & S2 to help with development of S3??? How did Sega turn that stuff over to Ysnet for S3 if they lost em all? Or maybe I'm missing something here? Are we talking portions or Wholesale?

He's using music for sure but beyond that who knows. I imagine portions of the stuff has gone missing so they gave him and d3t what they had.

 

[GYO6161]

I thought Yu is using OG assets as reference points and unreleased assets from S1 & S2 to help with development of S3??? How did Sega turn that stuff over to Ysnet for S3 if they lost em all? Or maybe I'm missing something here? Are we talking portions or Wholesale?

Thats a good point. Maybe the still got things like textures, character models, audio and music but not the actual complete source code?

 

[高野和泉]

He's using music for sure but beyond that who knows. I imagine portions of the stuff has gone missing so they gave him and d3t what they had.

Thats a good point. Maybe the still got things like textures, character models, audio and music but not the actual complete source code?

Not to mention sum of that stuff were offer as Kickstarter rewards for certain tiers. [I.e the Busts models used for scanning]