Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Another random thought...

I know Yu stated that Shenmue 3 will take advantage of motion capture techology, which I view as quite inferior to keyframe animations, but when I watch the Shenmue 3 extended Gamescom trailer, it looks to be that YSNet is either hand animating or perhaps using the world’s best mocap studio because the animations display with such fluidity and weightiness. Even the 2015 E3 trailer possessed greater animation fluidity than AAA mocap blockbusters like Detroit: Become Human.

But then again I think back to the first 3 Splinter Cell’s and I remember distinctively Ubisoft Montreal studio directors stating that all animations were hand drawn because of the superiority over mocap.

Can any animators chime in on these observations?

 
Not an animator, but before you get ahead of yourself it's worth remembering Shenmue and Virtua Fighter both were pioneers in extensively making use of motion capture systems.

Also I'm not sure what staff on the first three Splinter Cells have to say on the matter is very relevant anymore. Technology has moved along considerably with new low-latency rigs, and in most cases motion capture has been widely adopted by the industry on all levels.

The way I believe it works is that motion capture systems are the baseline, which are then tweaked by hand. I believe a lot of the technology being developed now with what Epic are doing with their digital human stuff in UE4, is to improve the quality of that baseline animation. We're not really at the point where animation can be captured without any additional work.

So yes, animators work to improve beyond what was captured by the rigs.
 
But compare even a couple games like Days Gone vs the hand animated games like Inside or The Last Guardian. The animated games have far more fluidity of motion.
 
ShenmueTree said:
I think both will show up. I just cant imagine Ren in the game without Joy, I have always considered them a duo.
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I hope not. I consider Joy a complete waste of a character. I think it’s less that Ren and Joy are a duo and more that Joy just happens to hang out with the Heavens. There’s no evidence the rest of the Heavens have followed Ren to the Guilin region. They’re likely helping lead the gang back in Aberdeen.

WildManofBorneo said:
Another random thought...

I know Yu stated that Shenmue 3 will take advantage of motion capture techology, which I view as quite inferior to keyframe animations, but when I watch the Shenmue 3 extended Gamescom trailer, it looks to be that YSNet is either hand animating or perhaps using the world’s best mocap studio because the animations display with such fluidity and weightiness. Even the 2015 E3 trailer possessed greater animation fluidity than AAA mocap blockbusters like Detroit: Become Human.

But then again I think back to the first 3 Splinter Cell’s and I remember distinctively Ubisoft Montreal studio directors stating that all animations were hand drawn because of the superiority over mocap.

Can any animators chime in on these observations?

Click to expand...

Shenmue used motion capture. Shenmue III will also be using motion capture. Go through one of the earlier Shenmue III Kickstarter vids and you’ll see Ryo’s Japanese voice actor showing what the process was like. Complaining about motion capture in the relation of Shenmue doesn’t make any sense. They’ve always been heavy with it.
 
Space Lion said:
I hope not. I consider Joy a complete waste of a character. I think it’s less that Ren and Joy are a duo and more that Joy just happens to hang out with the Heavens. There’s no evidence the rest of the Heavens have followed Ren to the Guilin region. They’re likely helping lead the gang back in Aberdeen.



Shenmue used motion capture. Shenmue III will also be using motion capture. Go through one of the earlier Shenmue III Kickstarter vids and you’ll see Ryo’s Japanese voice actor showing what the process was like. Complaining about motion capture in the relation of Shenmue doesn’t make any sense. They’ve always been heavy with it.
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Quoting a post I made back in December:

ShenGCH said:
Joy is a foil, not a sidekick. She starts off as something of a Paris Hilton-esque daddy's little girl with free reign to do whatever she wants without repurcussions, but develops into something much stronger, principled, and grounded over the course of the game.
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Thoughts?

We at least know Joy is going to be one of the characters Ryo will be able to talk to on the phone. I don't really see any reason for her to appear in the game outside of that, myself.
 
Joy and Wong have a very clear "goodbye" scene, so it's unlikely they'll appear in a future chapter.
 
Space Lion said:
I hope not. I consider Joy a complete waste of a character. I think it’s less that Ren and Joy are a duo and more that Joy just happens to hang out with the Heavens. There’s no evidence the rest of the Heavens have followed Ren to the Guilin region. They’re likely helping lead the gang back in Aberdeen.



Shenmue used motion capture. Shenmue III will also be using motion capture. Go through one of the earlier Shenmue III Kickstarter vids and you’ll see Ryo’s Japanese voice actor showing what the process was like. Complaining about motion capture in the relation of Shenmue doesn’t make any sense. They’ve always been heavy with it.
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I was not talking about romantically when I said I think they are a duo, I meant that I think of them as people who hang around each other a lot due to their interests and personality but now that I think about it there is no reason they shouldnt have hooked up before. Theyre both very attractive and bad ass. And by hook up, I mean hook up. No relationship. Just casual fun.
 
ShenmueTree said:
I was not talking about romantically when I said I think they are a duo, I meant that I think of them as people who hang around each other a lot due to their interests and personality but now that I think about it there is no reason they shouldnt have hooked up before. Theyre both very attractive and bad ass. And by hook up, I mean hook up. No relationship. Just casual fun.
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Come to think of it, the way Ren straddles her bike in Kowloon... Hmm...
 
ShenGCH said:
Quoting a post I made back in December:


Thoughts?

We at least know Joy is going to be one of the characters Ryo will be able to talk to on the phone. I don't really see any reason for her to appear in the game outside of that, myself.
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How does Joy transition into anything resembling a good character? By the end of the game she's kidnapped and hangs around Kowloon getting mad at Ryo for being aloof drinking tea at the cafe. She's by far and wide the weakest character in the game and with a game that has Ren, Shenhua, Xiuying, Fangmei, or even Wong she's lacking. I do not understand the fan love for her. To me she's the definition of vapid eye candy and I would be perfectly fine if she never appears in the saga again.

ShenmueTree said:
I was not talking about romantically when I said I think they are a duo, I meant that I think of them as people who hang around each other a lot due to their interests and personality but now that I think about it there is no reason they shouldnt have hooked up before. Theyre both very attractive and bad ass. And by hook up, I mean hook up. No relationship. Just casual fun.
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I never said anything about romance. Ren and Joy rarely ever interact with each other so them being considered a duo doesn't really click in my head. Joy shows up during the Aberdeen/Wan Chai section of II so much without once mentioning Ren. Now Wong? He's definitely a part of the gang. Joy just wants Ryo's nuts.

I'm curious where you got that they're a duo because I don't see anything within the game to even allude to that.
 
WildManofBorneo said:
But compare even a couple games like Days Gone vs the hand animated games like Inside or The Last Guardian. The animated games have far more fluidity of motion.
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I'm not sure exactly what this has to do with Shenmue III though.

They're using motion capture rigs and touching up by hand, just as with the previous games.

EDIT: I think probably, despite the shit some of the animation has gotten in the WIP looks we've had, Ys Net does have some talented animators on staff. The martial arts in particular have stood out as being pretty exceptional for the most part, and seem to have gotten a fair bit of attention up-front.

The fisherman master deflecting Ryo's blows in the extended Gamescom 2017 video is really something else.
 
I've been wondering. In the Edge article it stated that all the moves from Shenmue 1 and 2 will be included in 3. I have to wonder, does that mean they're using old motion captured data from the original games? To my understanding, they did motion capture a lot in Shenmue 1 and 2 so I wonder if it's using the old motion capture data at all...or if they completely redid everything from scratch.
 
I'm all for returning characters, when it makes sense.

Ren is chasing treasure.

Gui Zhang said he'd catch up.

Xiuying's brother is a leader of the Chi You Men.

Joy is a cool character, but if you start making excuses for characters to appear just because they're cool then the plot loses all meaning.
 
danielmann861 said:
I've been wondering. In the Edge article it stated that all the moves from Shenmue 1 and 2 will be included in 3. I have to wonder, does that mean they're using old motion captured data from the original games? To my understanding, they did motion capture a lot in Shenmue 1 and 2 so I wonder if it's using the old motion capture data at all...or if they completely redid everything from scratch.
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They did mention that the moves had been smoothed out somewhat in that aritcle so I suspect they used the old assests as a basis for this. It's cool they are coming back.
 
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