Random Shenmue III Thoughts

Everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that YSNet has existed for more than 13 years at this point, yet other than S3, has very little to show for it. We know that they weren’t working on S3 between 2008 and 2015 and survived just fine during that period (likely as a skeleton team who hired in additional contractors as and when needed), so the fact that the company still has a registered address should come as little surprise.

As well as the company having survived just fine prior to S3, we also know that the Epic deal helped DS to make their money back. It therefore stands to reason that YSNet has been receiving royalties from the Embracer group since day one, and likely at a rate much higher than the standard 10-20% due to them having put up around half of the budget themselves. This should be more than enough to cover rent and the salaries of a handful of people; more so if they’re also getting a cut of all of the recent LRG sets (which one has to suspect they are).
 
Does anyone know if the odds on the capsule toys change with difficulty settings? I swear I spent 1500 yuan trying to get one capsule toy today. Does anyone know if the odds change with the difficulty on all gambling games?
 
Everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that YSNet has existed for more than 13 years at this point, yet other than S3, has very little to show for it. We know that they weren’t working on S3 between 2008 and 2015 and survived just fine during that period (likely as a skeleton team who hired in additional contractors as and when needed), so the fact that the company still has a registered address should come as little surprise.

As well as the company having survived just fine prior to S3, we also know that the Epic deal helped DS to make their money back. It therefore stands to reason that YSNet has been receiving royalties from the Embracer group since day one, and likely at a rate much higher than the standard 10-20% due to them having put up around half of the budget themselves. This should be more than enough to cover rent and the salaries of a handful of people; more so if they’re also getting a cut of all of the recent LRG sets (which one has to suspect they are).
I'm pretty convinced they have something going on. My understanding is that they've got around 30-40 staff currently on the books as well so something other than S3 is paying the bills.
 
Well I finally finished my 2nd play through. I think I liked it even better second time around to be honest.

- I think the fighting is better than people give it credit for. Yeah, it’s not the VF engine, but I still have fun with it even with the lack of throws and true counters. The jabs work wonders in whiff punishing. Some of the punish moves on block are great when they hit. I still find the guard meter to be irksome but I get why it’s there. Otherwise it really would be easy to just block and punish everything. The guard meter at least promotes movement and dodging but still, gets irksome with multiple opponents hitting you all at once. This time I played on hardest and while the story fights weren’t too bad on Nightmare, I struggled with the Rose Garden and had to dip it back to normal as we got to the multi opponents.

But still, playing on Nightmare gave me new appreciation for the fighting system. The foundations are there. It’s nowhere near as button mushy as people make it out to be. For what it is, I had fun with it and appreciated it more this time around. I found assigning the four button strings to the Auto slots worked a charm for me. I had no problem with manually hitting the 2 and 3 button strings, but in terms of response time I found it was quick to have the button strings set to the trigger. That method worked best for me on Nightmare I felt.

- Story woes didn’t bother me as much this time around. I still think Niao Sun could have been developed better (or at least that twist could have been handled better) but at the same time, she is kind of manipulating a few moments in Niaowu as she always shows up watching over you in key moments I noticed. Even in game as I was hunting down 5000 yuan, I noticed she’s never not far from you in the world itself. Or maybe that was pure coincidence?

I also finally did the DLC Chawan side quest which I never did before. Bit bummed the final boss was just Mr Muscles again. Would have been more interesting had it been anyone else instead. Just felt a bit redundant fighting Mr Muscles and beating him before facing off against him in the finale and finally overcoming him there. That was a disappointment but still.

- I still kind of want to platinum it some day but that damn herb trophy eludes me. I’m pretty sure I can get the rest of the trophies through save scumming money (capsules and move scrolls) but yeah, I don’t know what I’m missing with the herb trophy. I feel like I got everything and the bloody thing still won’t pop.

All in all, it still remains one of my favourite games of last generation. No joke. I really like Shenmue 3 and I just can’t get angry about it in the same way others do. I understand the complaints and still see those warts even 2nd time through. But I’m still so taken with what the game gets right that the warts don’t bother me. This game still has the spirit of Shenmue all over it. They got it mostly right even on a fraction of a budget and that is still more than enough for me.
 
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I also finally did the DLC Chawan side quest which I never did before. Bit bummed the final boss was just Mr Muscles again. Would have been more interesting had it been anyone else instead. Just felt a bit redundant fighting Mr Muscles and beating him before facing off against him in the finale and finally overcoming him there. That was a disappointment but still.
Just wanted to point out that it was Mr. Muscles Mk 1 in the Chawan Sign DLC and and Mr. Muscles Mk 2 at the end of the game. Easy mistake to make though given how generic they both are!
 
I’m probably gonna write something on my blog about this in general, but I will say something maybe controversial. For all the talk about how Shenmue 3 doesn’t progress the plot, I actually think it’s the biggest progression we’ve had so far in this story. That being the mirrors ending up in the enemies hands. For the first time, the stakes are actually higher than ever and to me that’s the biggest progression we‘ve had thus far.

I still think the problem most have with 3 is the lack of resolve more so than anything else. I think people get the two mixed up. No progression would mean the story sits at a stand still and literally hasn’t moved. But thats certainly not the case come the end of 3. The lack of answers to those burning questions is the real frustration with 3 and is certainly understandable as I too felt those frustrations. It doesn’t excuse the character development on the side characters being weak. But still…there is progression in 3 for Ryo and his quest.

But going back and playing again, I appreciated it more this time. Shenmue 3’s final question to the player is simply “are you sure you know the truth?” It does feel like it’s leading into the next chapter being all about the Chi You Men. While we may have been theorising this for years, for Ryo he has remained steadfast that Lan Di is the bad guy. But 3’s ending does throw the question in the air in terms of cannon with that simple reveal that Lan Di’s father was actually protecting the mirrors. And it does seem to briefly weigh on Ryo’s mind on the boat. Ryo’s final act in exchanging the mirror for Shenhua’s life may be considered dumb by some, but I think it’s noble and a sign he is still human capable of valuing life. It actually made the nightly conversations with Shenhua mean something. Anyways, I’ll probably write more on my blog as I feel it could be a good blog post.

But yeah, there is a lot in Shenmue 3 I still like more than I don’t
 
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Shenmue III progress the plot but it is in a slow way similar to the first game, i enjoy slow pace games/stories, I just think it would have been cool more scenes, for example a flashback with Iwao and Sunming Zhao in Bailu Village, showing their friendship would have been nice for the story.

More character development for the side characters in Niaowu, and if Baisha was in the game i feel that the game would have been even better, one time Yu Suzuki even said... "Baisha will show off what Shenmue III is all about" but Baisha was cut out of the game so it is what it is...


i just wished for a little bit more but i agree that Shenmue III progress the plot. In a few words Shenmue III for me is living a calm and simple life in Bailu Village like a second home for Ryo and strengthening the bond with Shenhua, the conversations with her are part of the story in my opinion, Shenhua now is important for Ryo, and is a part in the story where Ryo focus a lot on training.

Like i said other times... Shenmue III = The calm, simple and peaceful time in Ryo’s journey, and i love that Shenmue III is this way, i love Shenmue III and i feel that Shenmue IV will be an intense Chi You Men arc with a lot of fights, revelations and much more.

I really enjoy that now Ryo is with Shenhua and Ren, now is a trio. Shenmue IV have the potential to be an intense and emotional game, i really feel that this is what will happen.

When Yu Suzuki complete this beautiful saga i feel that i will appreciate even more the story.
 
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I’m probably gonna write something on my blog about this in general, but I will say something maybe controversial. For all the talk about how Shenmue 3 doesn’t progress the plot, I actually think it’s the biggest progression we’ve had so far in this story. That being the mirrors ending up in the enemies hands. For the first time, the stakes are actually higher than ever and to me that’s the biggest progression we‘ve had thus far.
Don't think it's controversial at all, and I completely agree. From the first time I completed Shenmue III, I've thought that on paper the ending is pretty good because it represents a radical shakeup of the series status quo and provides an interesting premise for the next game. It just falters on presentation and lacks the narrative punctuation that would have built it up into a truly satisfying ending.

Honestly? There was probably a hasty rewrite after the decision was made to drop Baisha.
 
Yeah I think you could see the elements there; introduction and double crossing from Niao-Sun, Shenhua life being in peril and Ryo deciding to give up mirror for her safety and battle for control of Chiyomen.

However the execution and how it’s delivered leaves a lot to be desired. I know the ending was cobbled together but I think the narrative and characterization in general suffered in the game. My hope is with systems in place they can really improve on this in a sequel, although with constant budget considerations I have a tough time believing they can match set-pieces and scope we saw with original games.
 
Yeah I think you could see the elements there; introduction and double crossing from Niao-Sun, Shenhua life being in peril and Ryo deciding to give up mirror for her safety and battle for control of Chiyomen.

However the execution and how it’s delivered leaves a lot to be desired. I know the ending was cobbled together but I think the narrative and characterization in general suffered in the game. My hope is with systems in place they can really improve on this in a sequel, although with constant budget considerations I have a tough time believing they can match set-pieces and scope we saw with original games.
Yeah look I understand that. Some of those complaints still stand for me. But I think I came to the realization that this is the way Yu likes delivering his story. One bread crumb at a time; for better or worse. In Shenmue II, Yuanda tells us that Lan Di is Sunming Zhao's son. That and what the mirrors do when combined is the big revelation in SII. In Shenmue III, we get the added detail that Sunming Zhao was actually protecting the mirrors throwing everything further into question. If you look at the formula of Shenmue, it has been delivering one small revelation after another like breadcrumbs.

Shenmue III really is the getting to know Shenhua chapter. To me, everything else is of less importance as the game focuses more so on building that relationship. In some ways, maybe they shot their load too early with that in the long walk at the end of Shenmue II though? In fact, I do wonder if they perhaps shot their load too early on a lot of things. I mean even Shenmue 1 has hints of the mirrors being a map, so I do often wonder if they shot their load too early with a lot of little details.

I think I've come to the realization that Yu likes delivering small details as breadcrumbs as he slowly tells his story and in some way I was more okay with that this time around. I mean sure, I would LOVE greater revelations. But again, it is very formula and I don't see much difference from the other games in the way it delivers the formula.

That's another complaint I've heard that I don't entirely agree with. There are some nice set pieces in SIII. I think that sparring session with Master Bai out on the boat is as good as anything Shenmue II had to offer. In terms of cinematics, I guess. I also think some of the moments with Master Sun in Bailu are really nice. While they never quite reach the levels of Xiuying's mentorship, I still think there are some really nice serene moments with him in the Bamboo forest.

I don't know, I just keep going back to this thought that a lot of the issues people had with it, I don't really share. <shrugs>

That's not to say it's perfect...but I think its far better than most give it credit for. The thing that still comes through the most for me with SIII is that the game has a ton of heart. I do think they cared about trying to make the best Shenmue game they could for the budget they had. I love the way they made that world feel connected. Everything has purpose in its economy. The focus on living that daily routine is still its greatest strength for me.

But that is also its weakness. That it was perhaps overextending its reach a little too much and not always delivering where people felt it needed to deliver. I think its ambitions were far greater than that small team could realistically deliver. Its ambition to deliver the full scale Shenmue experience is both its strength and weakness at the same time.

I don't know why but it just saddens me to see the reaction it had where even some in the community outright dismissed it and nitpicked it to death. All I see is a game made by people who actually gave a shit in trying to deliver the best Shenmue experience they possibly could.

And I suppose that was enough for me.
 
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This is why I've begun to see Shenmue III as more a sequel to the first game than the second. It has an intimacy and pace more like the original, but it also makes some similar mistakes.
 
This is why I've begun to see Shenmue III as more a sequel to the first game than the second. It has an intimacy and pace more like the original, but it also makes some similar mistakes.
I think it tries to do the best of both worlds to some degree.
 
Interviewer: From a scale of 1 to 10 how much do you love Shenmue III?
Yu Suzuki: Hm... probably 7.5. 5, 4, 5, 6


It is clear to me that Yu Suzuki wanted to do more with the game, it is clear to me that Yu Suzuki had to compromise some things, this is sad but with the budget available Yu Suzuki and the team did everything they could to deliver a nice game, a nice Shenmue experience, and Shenmue III is a beautiful experience to me, this was enough for me, i'm not saying the game is perfect but i love Shenmue III.

The ending was rushed and could have been done in a better way but i love the things that happened in the ending, is a build up for intense things to come in Shenmue IV. Ryo losing the mirror, Niao Sun betraying Lan Di and showing more about what type of character she is, what she is capable of doing.

Ryo showing that he improved, it was not enought to defeat Lan Di but he showed that he improved when he defeated the other characters, when he defeated Longqi Ge and the other characters, even Lan Di said that Ryo improved a little, i love that Ryo is improving little by little, Ryo is not ready yet to defeat Lan Di in a fight, it was the first real fight.

Ren saving Ryo. In my opinion Ren cares about Ryo, and i feel that Ren will probably learn that the real treasure in life is friendship, and i think Ryo will fully learn this as well.

In my opinion something will happen and Ryo will understand all the Iwao's words and Xiuying's words about friendship and revenge, Ryo will learn this in the easy way or the hard way? i don't know, i feel that Ren will have big development as well, maybe Ren will die.

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The revelations in the end with Yushen Yuan

And now Ryo is with Shenhua and Ren, so much potential for an intense and emotional Shenmue IV.

I love this, one of the reasons is that it is a build up to exciting things that will probably happen in Shenmue IV.
 
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I say Shenmue III "progresses" the plot no differently from the first two games. At the end of Shenmue 1, you really know nothing other than having to go to Hong Kong...and you go to Hong Kong... Then in Shenmue II, Zhu Yuanda isn't seen until the end of the third disc (for the DC version that is), and though his role is small but still significant. And what he offers to the plot is no different than Shen Hua's father. Of course, we meet Shen Hua in disc 4, but we only get to know her on a basic basis and that was enough at that time.

I still say how Shenmue III uses its supporting cast could be better. With the temple maiden, I think you could've had a relationship with her in the same way you do with Fang Mei in Shenmue II. I think Ren's re-introduction could've been handled better, too. I felt he was just shoehorned in. Most of the Shenmue III supporting cast out of Shen Hua and Ren are "just there." I felt they could've been used more when they team up at the end could be more meaningful.
 
I also felt that III had a similar progression to I. At least in Bailu village, that is...

Niaowu however felt more like they tried to do Aberdeen or Kowloon without the budget of Shenmue II. Still, it will probably work as a build up for the next game since this one left Cliff Temple (and Baisha) out.

We finally learned where the mirrors can be used (likely the Temple in the mountains/Cliff Temple according to those cutscenes) and Ryo lost the Phoenix Mirror, so I'll agree with the previous posts saying the stakes are actually higher than they ever were.

I seriously hope the next game introduce the rest of the Chi You Men leaders early (finally no more dealing with small fries, maybe). Which makes me wonder if the rest of the game will be about Ryo learning the rest of the Bajiquan Techniques with some sort of time skip in the end to leave it to Shenmue V.

Throw moves must come back so we can use Body Check/Reverse Body Check we learned in Shenmue III! (my main criticism about the game).

Overall Ys Net had the heart in the right place while developing III. Despite some shortcomings, I really liked the game, guess IV is one of my most antecipated games for now.
 
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I say beyond Bajiquan, he'll learn all kinds of styles. He may learn Praying Mantis, Wing Chun, Sanshou, Jeet Kune Do, and maybe Pankration, Wrestling, and Muay Thai. I think that'd be cool.
 
so regarding the bad ending of s3, where does it take place? does it take place in ryo's dreams and when lan di kills him he just dies from a heart attack in his sleep?
 
My one question with S3's combat; was there actual guard break moves or was is it just the AI cheating you? I noticed some strings would just obliterate your guard meter but I couldn't tell if some moves had guard break properties or if it was just eh AI cheating you making life more difficult.
 
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In some ways, maybe they shot their load too early with that in the long walk at the end of Shenmue II though? In fact, I do wonder if they perhaps shot their load too early on a lot of things. I mean even Shenmue 1 has hints of the mirrors being a map, so I do often wonder if they shot their load too early with a lot of little details.
I mean, that is definitely a lot of load blowing! No wonder they haven’t announced Shenmue 4 yet, the poor folks at YS Net are struggling with Persistent Genital Arousal Disorder. :oops:
 
I mean, that is definitely a lot of load blowing! No wonder they haven’t announced Shenmue 4 yet, the poor folks at YS Net are struggling with Persistent Genital Arousal Disorder. :oops:
I was wondering if anyone would comment on that :D (I was aware while writing it)
 
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