Random Shenmue III Thoughts

[orient]

Exactly.

It's amazing how far we've come. Back on Dreamcast most of the characters couldn't even blink, let alone move their eyebrows, had ears made of about 4 triangles, and had crab claws for hands...and it was the most amazing thing we'd ever seen. Now we have people complaining about Lan Di's hair being too soft and puffy ?

 

[9dragons]

It is great the fans are so confident about the game. But we never should forget the humble roots of Shenmue 3. Only 4 years ago Shenmue 3 seemed impossible and now we are about to get it.

As I have stated many times already I am happy with the result and have not the energy to complain about the graphics. I like the art style and that is all that matters. I do not care about animations and other minor things that might not be perfect fort todays standards.


Good animations does not mean a good game. Other factors like the story, music and over all atmosphere are way more important than that. And in this regard Yus Net seems to deliver. So no reason to complain there.

And I am also not even sure that most haters are real fans. They are just complaining because they think it is funny although it is not.

Unlike the dojo, were the critics say reasonable things the youtube/facebook guys just say nonsense.

Looks like a ps2 game (whenever I hear this i really wonder if Sony secretly released a ps2 pro and nobody knew about it) or looks dated

These comments are just ridiculous . There is no place for such comments in the gaming landscape. The gaming landscape is vast. A game does not need to have cutting edge technology to have a place in the gaming lineup of 2019.

People like their 2d indy games with 16 bit era consoles graphics as much as they like their cutting edge 3d stuff.

Shenmue 3 also has a place in the gaming landscape and is not dated.

 

[reminisce]

They are better than what a lot of people are actually claiming.

The environnements are great looking, the shaders, lighting, volumetric effects are great (and no, they're not "stock UE4"). Even the characters are decent looking and even have some extra care brought to them:
Clothes physics, ear physic for Shenhua (something I havent seen in any other game), hair physics for characters (Ryo's hair move subtly during cutscenes), subsurface scattering to make the skin look more smooth, yet despite being stylised, being detailled enough to have skin grain.

Sure, the game would look better with better animations (which is kinda stiff so far. Not only the faces, which can vary to decent to bad for the animations but also the bodies which feel rigid at times). But you have to make sacrifices somewhere. A game like Yakuza decided to push for great visuals for environnement and main characters, the cost is subpar npcs (maybe worse than Shenmue 3 ?), no dub for sidequests and the same map and environnements since a decade.
I'm sure Shenmue 3 would look as great if we stayed in Yokosuka in Shenmue 2,3,4 maybe 5.

Shenmue III may already look better...

 

[orient]

Shenmue III may already look better...

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The thing about graphics is a lot of people conflate realism and quality. Due to the industries' obsession with realism since the late '90s, anything attempting to strive for realism is immediately seen as better and more advanced, because gamers have been trained for decades to believe that.

Of course, people are wising up nowadays thanks to the proliferation of indie games, but there's still a huge segment of people out there who just want realistic-looking cities to shoot and fight their way through.

 

[GhostTrick]

Shenmue III may already look better...

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Well to be fair, I think you're comparing an upscaled screenshot of Yakuza 5 here vs a publisher screenshot of Shenmue 3

But in any case, Yakuza is also making a shiton of tradeoffs and this is where Shenmue doesn't. Keeping Kamurocho (which is a tiny map) as the same map for 7 games... And even another serie (Judge Eyes) is one of these huge tradeoff they've been doing.

 

[Spaghetti]

Well to be fair, I think you're comparing an upscaled screenshot of Yakuza 5 here vs a publisher screenshot of Shenmue 3

Pretty sure that's actually Yakuza 6.

Either way it's certainly a controversial comparison but... I see it. Shenmue III pulls it's weight for a game with a far smaller budget and less of a backlog of resources to stand on.

Not sure the daylight shots stack up to Yakuza 6 quite so well, but Shenmue III's daytime lighting changes throughout the day in real time, whereas the lighting is static and "baked in" with Yakuza - and so can be more "authored" for aesthetics.

 

[9dragons]

I also believe that many people have forgotten how far the graphics development has come. As a avid retro and modern gamer I can see the how much the tech has eveloped in the last 20 years and i am still impressed by it. I just wish that game design would have evolved as well. You could do so many things in story telling with the new tech but most devs do not do it. So I seriously believe that in story telling and game design/atmosphere most old games do a better job than modern games. But that is beyond the point.

People really should try to be more humble and appreciate how far we have come.

But back to S3. I really think it looks good. I cannot get the hate it gets for its design. It looks really good for limited budget game.

The colors looks great and Shenmue 3 also seem to have a unique atmosphere that is different from many other games. Not a big surprise for me as a Shenmue fan but these unique atmosphere could also help to attract new players.

 

[GhostTrick]

Pretty sure that's actually Yakuza 6.

Either way it's certainly a controversial comparison but... I see it. Shenmue III pulls it's weight for a game with a far smaller budget and less of a backlog of resources to stand on.

Not sure the daylight shots stack up to Yakuza 6 quite so well, but Shenmue III's daytime lighting changes throughout the day in real time, whereas the lighting is static and "baked in" with Yakuza - and so can be more "authored" for aesthetics.

It seems like it's Yakuza 6 indeed but it was a bad screengrab from a bad quality video.
In any case there's no denying that on a technical standpoint, Yakuza 6 looks better overall. But then again, it comes at the cost of reusing the same map over and over. And while Yakuza 6 is the game in the serie that had dubbed NPCs even for sidequest, this isn't the norm.in that serie, even for Kiwami 2.

Tl;dr: A budget can only take you so far. Shenmue 3 prioritized new assets, new places, more npcs and dubs, Yakuza prioritised cutscenes and character models.

 

[Spaghetti]

It seems like it's Yakuza 6 indeed but it was a bad screengrab from a bad quality video.

Yeah. I was originally viewing on my phone so the resolution difference didn't look as noticeable.

For a fairer comparison I've dug out a 1080p screen for Yakuza 6 that's fairly comparable to one of the new Shenmue screens.

Compared to:

I still think that all things considered, Shenmue III holds its own.

If anything it certainly highlights the differences between each series visually, because there's a lot going on in that Yakuza screen to make the environment more flashy (wet pavement, a lens flare effect on the distance street lights, steam coming from...?). Whereas Shenmue III is distinctively more earthy in part thanks to its more rural setting, but also because there are secondary systems that affect the aesthetics of the environment - like the real time weather system which may or may not have rain causing a similar wet pavement look on any given day.

Funnily enough, a filmmaking trick I know to make urban outdoor scenes look better at night, is to wet the pavement with a huge amount of water, then spread it across your shooting space with a broom. The water catches the light (either ambient/practical, or from your own lighting rig), and makes the scene look more "textured".

That's kind of how I feel about Yakuza visuals vs Shenmue visuals. Yakuza deals in very well constructed film sets, Shenmue attempts to create living, breathing worlds.

 

[GhostTrick]

Yeah. I was originally viewing on my phone so the resolution difference didn't look as noticeable.

For a fairer comparison I've dug out a 1080p screen for Yakuza 6 that's fairly comparable to one of the new Shenmue screens.

Compared to:

I still think that all things considered, Shenmue III holds its own.

If anything it certainly highlights the differences between each series visually, because there's a lot going on in that Yakuza screen to make the environment more flashy (wet pavement, a lens flare effect on the distance street lights, steam coming from...?). Whereas Shenmue III is distinctively more earthy in part thanks to its more rural setting, but also because there are secondary systems that affect the aesthetics of the environment - like the real time weather system which may or may not have rain causing a similar wet pavement look on any given day.

Funnily enough, a filmmaking trick I know to make urban outdoor scenes look better at night, is to wet the pavement with a huge amount of water, then spread it across your shooting space with a broom. The water catches the light (either ambient/practical, or from your own lighting rig), and makes the scene look more "textured".

That's kind of how I feel about Yakuza visuals vs Shenmue visuals. Yakuza deals in very well constructed film sets, Shenmue attempts to create living, breathing worlds.

On top of that, I feel like it's important to highlight this again:
Yakuza has been using the same game area since Yakuza 1. Which has been refined over, over and over. Heck it's even the same area in Judge Eyes.

 

[ShenSun]

On a more lighter note. Happy Easter everyone. Check this out

""There are 7 “Easter Eggs” in this Shenmue III fan edited screenshot! Some are super easy to spot, others are way more challenging! Can you find them all? ""

@Shenmueforever

 

[orient]

Wet floor + neon signs is basically easy mode for making a game look good, but there's no denying the latest Yakuza games look great, even during the day and in dry conditions.

The Yakuza art style is more realistic than Shenmue III's. They have a more natural lighting model and the characters are literally meant to look like real people. Shenmue III is more stylised, closer to an animated movie.

 

[Spaghetti]

The Yakuza art style is more realistic than Shenmue III's. They have a more natural lighting model and the characters are literally meant to look like real people. Shenmue III is more stylised, closer to an animated movie.

Totally. It's not even up for interpretation either, the Yakuza series has been face scanning Japanese actors for several entries now - which should show exactly where their aesthetic decisions lie.

I'm not sure if I could ever quite get used to a photogrammetry-based Shenmue. At least not without an entry like Shenmue III that could act like a bridge between the Dreamcast games and a potential Shenmue IV; if they decided to go in that direction for future entries.

 

[9dragons]

I personally hope they never make a Shenmue Game with photo realistic game models. It won't be Shenmue anymore. A Shenmue like game with photo realism would be nice though. But that is nothing for Shenmue.

 

[orient]

I wonder if there will be PS4 Pro support, considering the optimisation is not insignificant for a small team. It's probably more of a Deep Silver call.

 

[SledgeNE]

This is almost with funfair-attractions: When a funfair attraction have no VR than it is Out for young people. Very good Ghosttrains are almost all sold just because young people don't want to see that classic attractions with fantastic handmade decorations. This makes me sad for funfairs in the future.

 

[Zoyous]

On top of that, I feel like it's important to highlight this again:
Yakuza has been using the same game area since Yakuza 1. Which has been refined over, over and over. Heck it's even the same area in Judge Eyes.

Is it really important to highlight it again? You've said this five times in a row. The problem is, it isn't really true no matter how many times you repeat it. The setting is the same but they've re-created Kamurocho in various ways each time. Altering the street level layout, adding rooftops and subterranean areas, making exteriors and interiors more seamless. Plus you are conveniently omitting all of the other cities they create for each game. Yakuza is an example of a series that's done right, building and expanding on each previous iteration. It makes sense for its story to continue to have it be based in Kamurocho, and it would make no sense to keep radically redesigning it for each subsequent game. But it's wrong to characterize them as simply "copy and pasting" the same map from game to game.

 

[GhostTrick]

Is it really important to highlight it again? You've said this five times in a row. The problem is, it isn't really true no matter how many times you repeat it. The setting is the same but they've re-created Kamurocho in various ways each time. Altering the street level layout, adding rooftops and subterranean areas, making exteriors and interiors more seamless. Plus you are conveniently omitting all of the other cities they create for each game. Yakuza is an example of a series that's done right, building and expanding on each previous iteration. It makes sense for its story to continue to have it be based in Kamurocho, and it would make no sense to keep radically redesigning it for each subsequent game. But it's wrong to characterize them as simply "copy and pasting" the same map from game to game.

I said they've been refining it over and over.

 

[Jibby]

Been experimenting with adding subtle animation to some of the recent Shenmue III screens. Pretty satisfied with the result so I may see about doing some more:

 

[ShenGCH]

Been experimenting with adding subtle animation to some of the recent Shenmue III screens. Pretty satisfied with the result so I may see about doing some more:

If this is anything like what we are going to get in the game itself, Yu Suzuki will have accomplished his goal of depicting the humidity and 'smell' of the visuals via the new art style.

I would love to see more, dude!