Response To SuperEyePatchWolf Shenmue 3 Review

orient said:
It seems that way, but I honestly believe it isn't the overarching plot that sticks with people most -- it's the characters, the locations, the atmosphere, and the sense of mystery. It's the world you're able to live in. To me, that's what Shenmue is all about. Do I think Shenmue III was a success in regards to all of these criteria? No, especially in the character department, but I can understand why they prioritized things like a semi-open-world, an economy, and side activities overfilling the game with story beat after story beat because living in the world is essential to the Shenmue experience. We could argue all day over what the "correct" balance is -- many would say there isn't enough main story in the first game, and as fans, we may act like Shenmue II is an action-packed story-filled blockbuster, but I've watched LPers who found it just as slow and meandering as the first game -- but I'm not about to go down that rabbit hole again.


While I agree with the general sentiment, try telling that to Shenmue fans from two years ago, many of whom were expecting nothing short of the full Shenmue experience, and were ready to disavow the game completely if it didn't deliver that. Now imagine the immense pressure Yu and his team would've been under knowing that, and knowing people have been waiting 18 years for something that feels like Shenmue, with 70,000 already paid up and waiting. It's very easy to understand why they took the road they did with Shenmue III.
Click to expand...

I would contend that most of the elements you listed that attract you to Shenmue are tenets of a well-written story. For example, the atmosphere can easily be synonymous with the tone, or memorable characters due to their impact on the narrative. Some locations are more fondly remembered over others due to their amount of detail or where they fit into the plot. An engaging mystery is one that is well-written. Also, let's be honest, Shenmue isn't the first story to do the proverbial Kung Fu coming of age adventure. However, what made it distinct was its writing.

You raise a fair point about the pressure Suzuki was under for developing Shenmue III. Given how most fans see how faithful Shenmue III is to the originals, I will concede this point. I'll only point out that Suzuki could have given us the full experience without as many sacrifices.

For example, I don't need a Smart Ball or a Lucky Hit stand around every corner. I don't need multiple shops that offer false choices to the player. An easy way to resolve this would be to create a centralized hub for most of the minigames and shopping while including a few extras off the beaten path similar to Shenmue II. That way you get the best of both worlds.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20 after all.
 
Last edited:
Godokunodan said:
Its a matter of perspective. Most gamers are perfectionists. Even if there weren't instant fail states in the current QTEs, most real ambitious gamers would reload their game save and try to get a perfect on the QTEs. Suzuki made the QTEs in the perfectionist state because that's what his hardcore gamer fans demanded. Most of the people complaining about Shenmue 3 are casual gamers, passive gamers that are ok with mediocrity, failing half a QTE and expecting a reward. Look , you fail half a QTE, you do not pass "Go" you do not " Collect 100 dollars" . Yu Suzuki made some of the old She's with fail states because he was trying to cater to casuals more back then. That and he had a $70 million dollar budget, so he could afford to put a million QTEs in the game, making some of them throw-away. In Shenmue 3 Suzuki had to make every QTE count because there were so few of them. You don't even get a QTE until the end of Bailu section of the game.
Click to expand...
That's completely bogus. Yu Suzuki constantly talks about wanting to make his games accessible and easy for anyone to play. You're actually starting to trigger my troll alarm with some of your posts...

Its not, people are just impatient self entitled consumers that want 90 hours of story for $60. Not happening . in the PS5 generation the price of games will go up to $70 , so the bitching will continue and intensify. .
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:
 
mjqjazzbar said:
That's completely bogus. Yu Suzuki constantly talks about wanting to make his games accessible and easy for anyone to play. You're actually starting to trigger my troll alarm with some of your posts...
Click to expand...

I really wasn’t going to respond to his reply. Bogus is putting it politely.

Honestly I love how some posters seem to have insight into Suzuki’s vision or intent yet they often contradict numerous public statements he’s made in multiple interviews over the years.
 
I rarely post on here or any community but felt a need to respond to this video. I also posted this to OP's video comments:

The SEPW guy is a drama queen. Pretty sure hes just doing it for the money. He makes over $3300 per video according to his Patreon and nearly all his videos are about corralling fans of once-beloved franchises from the 90s-2000s into a misery or a nostalgia party or just using the millennial fanbase to get a rise. Basically he’s lapping up peoples funds by rousing their childhood memories.

That said, keep in mind how many of the people commenting on his video say they never even played Shenmue, but somehow they are convinced of his views' correctness and are actually expressing anger or sadness about how the game turned out or performed. They are so sure this game was a huge failure and its over, Suzuki is done, Shenmue is done etc. Oh what could have been.

Keep in mind though that this exact narrative played out in the Dreamcast days after the release of both games even back then. Its not hard to remember that if you weren't a highly Japan-focused gamer, then it was actually mainstream to bash the game in the West. Largely mixed to negative mainstream critical reception in the West, and sales that nowhere recouped the costs of development - and arguably even leading to Sega’s demise as a console developer and publisher at the end of the Dreamcast’s lifespan.

This history is not forgotten on us Sega fans.
That being said, I see the overwhelming positive reaction to his video; the pity-party and commiseration aspects of it, to all be part and parcel of his business model and not especially meaningful at all. Repeating the obvious and dramatizing it does wonders for your bank account if your business is selling nostalgia to 30-somethings, either negative or positive.
 
Interesting response, I'm glad it's not a completely blind defense of S3; his opinion is probably much more in line with how most people who beat the game felt. I only disagree with 2 things:

1. Ryo being able to hit Lan Di would not necessarily have meant that he had surpassed his father's skill level; Iwao was 15 years older than Lan Di and past his prime when he was killed so who's to say how a 30-something Iwao would've fared? I don't think Ryo should have been able to hit Lan Di at this point in the story, especially not with the fucking body check, but I disagree with his logic in this example. If anything, I wish Lan Di had really beaten the shit out of Ryo and had Ryo questioning his quest for revenge at the end.

2. He claims that Ryo and the player learn more about the mirror's purpose and have a new lead to the CYM's whereabouts; we learn that the mirrors are the key to a treasure in S2; we learn nothing more about their purpose in S3. If anything, S3 confuses us on their purpose as Yuanda Zhu tells Ryo that both mirrors form a map but in S3, Elder Yeh says that the map in Bailu Village is the treasure map. Also, every Shenmue game ends with someone pointing Ryo to Lan Di's next location so I would hardly count that as a point in the story's favor...

I agree with most of his ideas on how to improve S4, especially the professional script writer and I also agree that damn near everyone who waited for S3 and hated it will likely play S4... hopefully he's right about the payoff.
 
ShenSun said:
A good portion of the criticisms for Shenmue 3 are fair. I still prefer it over Shenmue 1 though.

Shenmue 2 is still the gold standard and I think Shenmue 4 will be the new king in the future. Shenmue 3 has built a very good foundation.
Click to expand...


No way is it better than Shenmue 1. Literally no way.Shenmue 1=better story, better fighting, better atmosphere, better gameplay, more story progression, better music.
 
I don't even know why you'd be here if you think Shenmue 3 is better than Shenmue 1 or 2.

Shenmue 3 isn't the kind of game that grabs hold of people's imaginations for 20 years. Literally nothing of interest happens in it.
 
Thomasina said:
I don't even know why you'd be here if you think Shenmue 3 is better than Shenmue 1 or 2.
Click to expand...
I don't even know how this thought could sound reasonable to anyone.
It goes: Shenmue II > Shenmue III > Shenmue
Shenmue II is my favorite game ever, and the other two are among my favorites. Why wouldn't I be here? Sorry if I've run afoul of your personal tastes. (I'm not actually sorry, though. Not even a little bit.)
 
Rydeen said:
I don't even know how this thought could sound reasonable to anyone.
It goes: Shenmue II > Shenmue III > Shenmue
Shenmue II is my favorite game ever, and the other two are among my favorites. Why wouldn't I be here? Sorry if I've run afoul of your personal tastes. (I'm not actually sorry, though. Not even a little bit.)
Click to expand...
Why though?

Shenmue 1 started it all. It introduces us to the whole story.

Was anyone really waiting for a fishing mini-game all their life and S3 is the game that finally delivered it? I just can't fathom why someone would be a long time Shenmue fan and think S3 is better than either of the first 2 games. Does not compute.
 
Thomasina said:
I just can't fathom why someone would be a long time Shenmue fan and think S3 is better than either of the first 2 games. Does not compute.
Click to expand...
If you can't comprehend why some people prefer 3 to 1/2 (or hold it in the same regard) after almost 9 months of people discussing it and sharing their views, then best to give up while you're ahead.
 
Thomasina said:
I don't even know why you'd be here if you think Shenmue 3 is better than Shenmue 1 or 2.

Shenmue 3 isn't the kind of game that grabs hold of people's imaginations for 20 years. Literally nothing of interest happens in it.
Click to expand...
Easily. It's all down to personal taste. For me Shenmue 3 isn't better than 2 at all, I'd say its (probably) on a par with the first game but only just.

Anyway it's a Shenmue fansite who cares what order you like the games. People are here because they like the series/games and while opinions differ the broad theme remains the same.
 
Thomasina said:
Why though?
Click to expand...
I don't especially care about elements that improve accessibility, and don't really have much bearing on whether a story is actually good or not, like brisk pacing and narrative crescendo. I care about subtle and nuanced details, themes, messages, and how a work supports these things through its narrative (the marks of proper literature).

Some of the most poignant moments in the series involve Ryo reconnecting with his late father through the Shenmue tree at the springs, the ema written for Ryo's mother, and receiving the scroll that Iwao left with the abbot in Niaowu. These things don't need dialogue, or inner monologue. They speak for themselves. These sorts of events were really the highlights of the first game, as well. The point of good fiction is to actually think, and infer details about how a character responds to events, along with how that fits into overarching themes and messages. If I'm honest, I don't really care about fighting thugs, and chasing down kidnappers. Those are just narrative hooks that attempt to hold audiences ever shrinking attention spans. The problem I see these days is that the majority of stories focus exclusively on these narrative hooks, and have nothing to actually say. If a work of fiction has nothing to say, then I generally feel that it's not worth my time.

Fortunately, the Shenmue series always has a lot to say, and does so in unique and novel ways with its gameplay. Also I find Shenmue III to be a bit more fun and varied in activities, compared to the first game, while having a slightly more unique and interesting world.


Zoltor said:
Really? I can see the argument for it being better then 1, but I can't figure out any way, to come out with 3 being better then 2.
Click to expand...
Yeah, well, it could be recency bias, but it's really a matter of how each game resonates with a particular individual, which is likely a normally random distribution. There are bound to be people who fit into the lower density portions of the distribution. and I see it as a fair determination since I don't feel there's a massive disparity in quality between the three games.
 
Thomasina said:
Shenmue 3 isn't the kind of game that grabs hold of people's imaginations for 20 years. Literally nothing of interest happens in it.
Click to expand...

Thomasina said:
Was anyone really waiting for a fishing mini-game all their life and S3 is the game that finally delivered it?
Click to expand...

Ee4Wgx-UEAEdAvg.jpg

Yep, nothing major happened in Shenmue 3 besides fishing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top