s3 setting the best kickstarter & stretch goal standard?

[高野和泉]

So I've been doing a compare and contrast case study between various popular gaming project to SIII on kick-starter and I noticed this detail.
-Everybody starts the same with a base pitch. Most project then move onto make pie in the sky promises or things they think their backers might want that they can implement if they hit more stretch goals. The Ambitious growth of the project is conjured on the spot.
-Yu suzuki puts forth stretch goal proposal of what he wants to do...and if we help him reach them it'll symbolically work out in our favor. The stretch goals are his prioritized ambitions & not pie in the sky promises or things he thinks we might wanna see in S3. We control the ink to his Ambitions he already penciled out on paper.
-Suzuki analyzed the cost,resources,& workload logistics quite well before putting his foot down on any hard decisions. Hence we've never seen a "bad" mismanaged update on production side of things like most recent popular ones. [I.E: Bloodstain/MM9/Kingdom Come/etc...] Only justifiable outrages we've had are from marketing side of stuff...which can't fault on him since he doesn't control that stuff.
-Any criticism outside of that aiming at the production side falls back on the ignorance of those critics.[Models/animations/Dev's priority/unrealistic expectations/etc...]
-Getting a publisher contrary to Kick starter unspoken "No publisher" mantra is a wiser choice than sticking to this crowdfunding (Soft)principle. Proven it's worth in the payout of new ambitious ideas and excavating the lost contents of chapter two in the end.

In conclusion...I think we've found the right forumla to creating a "Masterpiece" work of art & path to beloved game IP(not spiritual successors) resurfacing through crowdfunding. When all is said and done...I think the Shenmue team/community will be the most highlighted ones in the history books of legendary gaming revivals.

Idk if this is becuase SEGA put Yu through the wringer or just inherent property of industry genuises...but I'm personally glad everything is working out in the end with this hype train not de-railing or crash and burn(tho the media and haters might differ).

BONUS: In the pitch video Suzuki quotes "The Full-ON Shenmue experience..." implying that he knows what he already wants. We're just helping him get to the finish line of a shared dream he wants to realized. Probably also explains why we have not been approached for any input/ideas outside of secondary issues at all.

Spoiler

TL;DR version: Dam we have one of the best gaming community and an absolute beast of a developer attached it. And the most mature fan to developer relationship-wise all things considered.

 

[spud1897]

Interesting points you raise there.

Certainly I think Shenmue 3 can act as a blueprint for kickstarters going forward if the game is of a decent quality (I'm sure it will be) and sells well. From a development point of view he's handled things well, though some people would argue in a manner from a time gone by, not that it matters at all if the game at the end is great. Expectations from the development process until recently have been quite tempered which sets us up to be blown away.

So in short if the game is a success then yes other IP's could come back using Kickstarter. The issue for them is whether they would have the momentum that Shenmue 3 did. That's an uknown factor in all of this.

 

[Ryo2040]

Sorry for the OT, but I would love if the makers of Ecco the Dolphin would give it another shot on kickstarter (they tried it with the big blue some years ago and failed)

 

[danielmann861]

I don't mean to be the negative guy but I'm waiting for the final product before making final judgement.

We just haven't seen enough to really know how it's all going. Gameplay wise I mean. What we've seen is pretty minuscule and a lot of repeat; a lot of the cave; some scenic shots and a couple of shots that are refreshed and repeated. It looks good and gets better with everything we have seen but I still need more before making final judgement as to whether its a true Kickstarter success story or not.

At best, we get the Shenmue experience we've been waiting years for. At worst, we're left disappointed by a broken mess of a game that feels rushed (I don't think this will be the case, but who knows?)

I will say one thing, it's been good to have none of the dramas that plagued Mighty No. 9 plague this game. For the most part, it seems things have progressed smoothly and the fact that they so confidentially threw a date out is still impressive to me. I mean Bloodstained still doesn't even have a date yet. Mighty No 9 was a mess by comparison. Just a mess of internet drama and not to mention the final product being almost a complete flop that left most of its audience disappointed. By the way, did they ever come out and officially cancel the 3DS and Vita versions of Mighty No. 9? Or did they go complexly silent on that?

-- Mighty No.9 is a perfect example of how terrible a Kickstarted game can go.
-- Kingdom Come Deliverance turned out pretty well and did pretty well for itself...even if it was a bit buggy at launch, but hey, those types of games are always buggy due to the size of them.

I'm hoping Shenmue III is more along the lines of Kingdom Come, but again, I'll wait until the final product is released for full judgement.

But so far, it does seem like things have gone pretty well for them. And I hope the game makes its August 27th release date (although, I'm still expecting a delay....just because its so very rare for any modern day game to make their target dates without delay)

 

[Zoyous]

I'd say the Wasteland sequels are the gold standard of well-managed Kickstarter games. I'm not sure why they get forgotten as crowdfunded games - possibly because they were completely drama-free and delivered exactly what they set out to.

 

[NotInTheShenmood]

Big disagree. The Kickstarter has been far from perfect. There was a lot of controversy at the start with rewards and who would get them, the slacker backer was confusing, they haven't been transparent about external funding or involvement with the other parties(Sony, Shibuya Productions, think there are others too), and now I think the worst offense is the total radio silence for the past like 2 years now. Updates have been a rarity.

The game is almost 5 months away and we still haven't seen gameplay and the 2 trailers we have are jokes. I'm not saying we need to know everything about the game but any game that was this close to launch we would have tons of info. This game is not Red Dead Redemption 2, they are not Rockstar, they can't afford to be blowing it like this. I know we're getting a gameplay trailer next month but is a silly trailer really enough, we need to be seeing like real time demos at this point and footage of people playing.

Also where is the backer demo? I'm going to be upset if thats not out soon, I paid for it and if we only get it a couple weeks before release thats just not worth it to me. I want it at least a few months early.

 

[danielmann861]

On the one hand, I'd rather have them in complete silence actually working on the game instead of dealing out resources to show it off at every trade show or what not. E3 alone is a pain in the ass for most developers as it takes time and resources away to build a sample of code to show off to the public. So on the one hand, I would rather they devote all resources to actually building the game instead of pulling a Kojima and showing me a trailer every trade show that just continues to kill my anticipation for whatever it is he is making with Death Stranding.

But on the other hand, given that we are about six months out from "launch", I think the time is nearing where they're gonna have to go full deep dive and actually show it off. Hopefully it's at Magic next month. I need to see more than just another trailer of Ryo and Shenhua in the cave. Maybe something like an updated version of that extended trailer they once showed at Magic that they never officially released (the one with all the quick time events and stuff)...or just show me Yu actually playing it on stage.

Next month should hopefully be the time to start to showing it off. Show me the game running, otherwise I'm going to continue to doubt that the game is even coming out August. I need to see the game running in a playable form before I truly believe that date will happen.

 

[NotInTheShenmood]

On the one hand, I'd rather have them in complete silence actually working on the game instead of dealing out resources to show it off at every trade show or what not. E3 alone is a pain in the ass for most developers as it takes time and resources away to build a sample of code to show off to the public. So on the one hand, I would rather they devote all resources to actually building the game.

I don't get why people say this. It doesn't take any man hours or work to put out screenshots or record gameplay clips. Takes like 2 seconds. Putting together an elaborate trailer or something would take a little time but just straight up showing the game doesn't take any effort.

 

[spud1897]

On the one hand, I'd rather have them in complete silence actually working on the game instead of dealing out resources to show it off at every trade show or what not. E3 alone is a pain in the ass for most developers as it takes time and resources away to build a sample of code to show off to the public. So on the one hand, I would rather they devote all resources to actually building the game instead of pulling a Kojima and showing me a trailer every trade show that just continues to kill my anticipation for whatever it is he is making with Death Stranding.

But on the other hand, given that we are about six months out from "launch", I think the time is nearing where they're gonna have to go full deep dive and actually show it off. Hopefully it's at Magic next month. I need to see more than just another trailer of Ryo and Shenhua in the cave. Maybe something like an updated version of that extended trailer they once showed at Magic that they never officially released (the one with all the quick time events and stuff)...or just show me Yu actually playing it on stage.

Next month should hopefully be the time to start to showing it off. Show me the game running, otherwise I'm going to continue to doubt that the game is even coming out August. I need to see the game running in a playable form before I truly believe that date will happen.

It's a very difficult balance to strike given the fact the game was Kickstarted. However as you say with only 6 months left they have to start pulling the trigger on showing extensive gameplay etc. For the record I think they will do otherwise they have really made a PR mess with nailing down a release date a full year ahead.

If nothing was shown then I'd share your veiw over August being doubtful but I'm sure they will hit it.

 

[Valascaziel]

It is the most successful Kickstarter of all time in gaming, but the overall run of it has been subpar.

That isn't YsNet's fault. Awesome Japan was horrid in the beginning and, in my own personal opinion, damaged the Kickstarter from reaching even greater heights than it did.

Their initial updates were shallow, unprofessional, vague, or sometimes nonexistent. Same with their communication.

If they'd gotten their act together quicker, we probably would've reached upwards of $7.5 or $8 million before everything ended with the Slacker Backer. The lack of professionalism, as Bloodstained had, perchance scared away some donors.


The stretch goals were reasonable and we reached a good majority of them. That being said, the intervention of Deep Silver injected more funds and enabled Yu to "create the game he envisioned".

For that to be the case, in my eyes, all unattained stretch goals had to be funded by that cash injection.

However, we have yet to be officially told anything High Ground Battle System and above is now all in. That would have made a large boost in positivity.

 

[9dragons]

I can understand that some People mind the lack of Information but I do not really care about it to be honest. It is just like gaming was in the pre Internet age. Although the Internet is a great Thing and I do not want to be with out it to be honest, the Internet also killed the Magic of gaming in some ways. Publishers are forced to show everything in advance to keep the crowd entertained. Another reason for this Information Overkill is to prevent leakers from leaking stuff in advance.

Luckily S3 is a rather small Project and leaking stuff seems not to be a very common Problem in japanese buisness culture but I might be wrong.

Let's wait and see what March will bring.

I also think we should wait after the Release of S3 before we can really judge if the Kickstarter was a sucess or not. It is to early to judge it.

If the game is decent it will be a sucess because it showed that with enough Passion you can bring everything back to the market. Even if no AAA developer in the world has been interested in the series for about 20 series.

If it fails it will hurt the Reputation of Kickstarter and will kill Shenmue as a brand. if it is a buggy mess, People will say that they Mainstream media had a good reason to leave Shenmue behind because it just sucks and has no place in the modern gaming landscape.

Let's hope that the game will be good.

 

[Reprise]

It is just like gaming was in the pre Internet age.

I think that's a but unfair, I remember religiously following the developments of the original Shenmue years before its release in magazines and it feels like there was a wealth of information available compared to with Shenmue 3. Maybe I'm mistaken and not remembering right, but there was certainly tons of screenshots and gameplay being shown off.

 

[9dragons]

Of course there were magazines that covered Shenmue but the quality was different. The expectations of the people were different. These days people want to see everything on youtube with detailed technical analysis of the shown footage from people like digital foundry.

If the game is not ready to shown it should not be covered although there were the technical means to do so. Unfinished footage gets roasted quite easily today. So it is better that they wait until they can show something substantial.

 

[spud1897]

If the game is not ready to shown it should not be covered although there were the technical means to do so. Unfinished footage gets roasted quite easily today. So it is better that they wait until they can show something substantial.

The reaction to the 2017 Gamescom trailer showed exactly this point.

 

[reminisce]

I may be an outlier, but I find my faith still growing with every update. We've come a long way...

 

[spud1897]

I may be an outlier, but I find my faith growing with every update. We've come a long way...

I'd say looking at the comments over the forums you're amongst the majority and I agree we've seen constant improvement even if they've likely held stuff back.

The potential is there for a really good push and to make this a signature Kickstarter in terms of the initial start and the completion. Yes there have been errors along the way but the game itself is what matters at the end of all of this.

 

[Spaghetti]

People expect too much with Kickstarter updates, honestly. This is across the board and something I've noticed on numerous projects.

They want slick, highly produced updates with lots of important info... and they want them regularly. When you consider a.) that kind of slick production costs money, and b.) you're likely entering a 2, 3, maybe even 4 year production cycle, it's just not workable to meet everybody's expectations of what to show.

I think a lot of people who back video game projects aren't prepared for the slow, iterative process that needs some level of secrecy to avoid being branded as being full of "FALSE PROMISES", let alone not being willing to accept imperfections that get ironed out as development goes on. Everybody wants to see behind the curtain, until they realise what a butcher's shop game development really is.

That's not even considering the entitlement factor. Some backers want it all, and they want it now. They don't care if you have a marketing plan, they paid their minimum of $30 and think they're an "investor". You can have a new trailer set to premiere in three weeks, and they'll still attack the game in the comments section of an update with new screens*, because you dared not to release a 10+ minute trailer, dozens more screenshots, and a demo on that given day just because you'd scheduled an update.

*quite literally what happened with the most recent Shenmue III update

Kickstarter is great for partly removing the green-lighting process from risk-adverse publisher hands, but from a community interaction standpoint it is truly the fucking pits. I am somewhat disheartened to learn that Ys Net takes much of what they see in the comments section seriously, because the amount of bile must be demoralising to the core.

Luckily, this community is amazing when it comes to supporting Yu & co, with gifts and tokens of appreciation, and coming out in force to meet him on public engagements. I would hope that makes the slog of game development worth it, and gives them the fire to keep going.