Sega from 2015 to today: Have they "re-established the Sega brand?"

They weren't good enough. That's why they failed.
It's as simple as that.

They were completely responsible for all their failures.(And unfortunately they had far more bad decisions than good ones in that era.)

It was also the bad decisions of Sega that lead to Shenmue 1 going overbudget and endangering the future of that franchise.Since Sega forced the developers to scrap that game 2 times.(Sega even forced theto make it for that upgraded version of Saturn which got cancelled.)
 
They weren't good enough. That's why they failed.
It's as simple as that.

They were completely responsible for all their failures.(And unfortunately they had far more bad decisions than good ones in that era.)

It was also the bad decisions of Sega that lead to Shenmue 1 going overbudget and endangering the future of that franchise.Since Sega forced the developers to scrap that game 2 times.(Sega even forced theto make it for that upgraded version of Saturn which got cancelled.)

Game wise, it had nothing to do with not being good enough. It was hardware decisions and to some extent, marketing errors, that ultimately cost them.

Shenmue was given a blank cheque as Sega believed it would be their answer to take on Final Fantasy on the Playstation. Similar to Panzer Dragoon Saga on the Saturn. I wouldn't replace what we got for anything.

And while I agree that some of the board decisions left a lot to be desired, many of their games were on their own level and many still are.
 
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They weren't good enough. That's why they failed.
It's as simple as that.

They were completely responsible for all their failures.(And unfortunately they had far more bad decisions than good ones in that era.)

It was also the bad decisions of Sega that lead to Shenmue 1 going overbudget and endangering the future of that franchise.Since Sega forced the developers to scrap that game 2 times.(Sega even forced theto make it for that upgraded version of Saturn which got cancelled.)

I think there's a difference between quality of games and poor business decisions, though. The rift between Sega of Japan and Sega of America pretty much botched 2 console releases (32x and Saturn) while also pissing off consumers, retailers, and developers. That carried into the Dreamcast, where companies like EA publicly stated that they wouldn't support the platform before it was even released.

You can't really survive on first party titles alone. Even N64 and Gamecube didn't really sell gangbusters (30+ Million and 20+ Million), despite a lot of historically great titles and having the closest thing to "Disney IP" in the video game world. I think most people look back on the Saturn and Dreamcast libraries very fondly. I would probably argue that yes, they could have focused more on RPGs in the West (especially in the Saturns case), and perhaps more extended length action-adventure games like Zelda, but the Dreamcast library had a lot of different genres covered pretty well.
 
No, not really.
There are very few SEGA internal endeavours that were up to the task. I'd say maybe Yakuza which is basically always what it was and Valkyria Chronicles 4, which was what people asked for a follow up of the original Valkyria Chronicles.

But for the rest ? I dont count Atlus because even if they're owned by SEGA, they're still working by their own.

They tried to bring back some IPs internally like Sakura Wars, it was too far away from what people wanted.

They left some other IP dies: Still no Virtua Fighter nor Skies of Arcadia.

Sonic is worse and worse. Their only successful attempt at a Sonic game was Mania, which wasn't done by them.

Other IPs were licensed for better or worse. But in any case, it wasn't handled by them. Wonderboy and Streets of Rage were good, Panzer Dragoon was bad. Shenmue III was in-between. The remaster was good but then again, it was SEGA Europe which had to find a way to make it happen at a cheap cost.

While they're doing good financially, as a brand I cant see them as anything else than that company making Yakuza games and owning Atlus. When it comes to their own output, it's not there yet.
 
IMO Sega has not reestablished themselves in the gaming market. Sega has done some impressive things as of late but there is so much more they could do. Some people have already pointed this out but Sega still has a ton of 1st party IPs they could release and sell.

I personally would like to see Sega get behind Shenmue 4 in some capacity. At the very least let Yu use Sega's likeness(arcades, skins, logos, capsule toys). Something that could be very impressive is for Yu Suzuki and Sega to develop another Virtual Fighter and port that fight engine over to the Shenmue series.

IMO I don't think Sega will ever reestablish themselves because they'll never put serious money behind serious projects. Honestly I get it Sega is not in a position to take financial risks. The fan side of me is sad but the logic side understands.
 
Why should they make VF 6 when VF 5 was a failure?
Even in the end, they made VF 5 FS for PS3 and Xbox 360 to shut up the VF fans that spammed their twitter asking for it. (Which that was also a failure.)

Capcom(Which internet loves this day) doesn't even bother to make Onimusha 5, Dino Crisis 4, God Hand 2, Okami 2, or Megaman Legends 3. And you guys expect Sega to make VF 6?

Also, it doesn't help that they have to spend really big for it in order to compete with Tekken 7.(A game which neither DOA 6 nor Soul Calibur 6 managed to even compete with.)
 
Virtua Fighter 5 FS seemed to do OK in Japan: http://segabits.com/blog/2012/06/13...own-has-exceeded-sales-within-the-first-week/

Also according to VGChartz VF5 (Original) did over 1 million sales on PS3 without Xbox sales being known. I know sometimes their numbers can be off

Take into account final showdown did (apparently) 300k sales and I don't think you can call it a failure from a sales perspective.Screenshot_20200720-102743_Chrome.jpg

Now whether this was enough for Sega, who knows and it might not be a roaring success when compared to other fighters but it is well rated and sold reasonably well. Definitely not a failure
 
While they're doing good financially, as a brand I cant see them as anything else than that company making Yakuza games and owning Atlus. When it comes to their own output, it's not there yet.

IMO I don't think Sega will ever reestablish themselves because they'll never put serious money behind serious projects. Honestly I get it Sega is not in a position to take financial risks. The fan side of me is sad but the logic side understands.

I agree - If you look at the output of what they developed themselves (if we're not including Atlus), then it's just "ok" with Valkyria Chonicles and the Yakuza Series. I don't think it's likely that any installment in those series will ever sell much more than a million units each, perhaps 2 million max. I would argue that there should still be partial credit for anything they publish, because generally they'll still be looking at those games at regular intervals for feedback and milestone approvals. Plus they'd still have to make the decision to start development on those games to begin with. However, that's still a far cry from the Sega of the 80s and 90s.

FWIW, this seems to be the longest amount of time between any 3D Sonic release. Sonic Forces came out in 2017 and there's been no announcement other than "we are making a 3D Sonic", so hopefully they're taking their time to re-evaluate what they need to do to make a hit Sonic game again. Hopefully they see the opportunity they have with the Sonic movies. If they could release a great Sonic game around the time the next Sonic movie comes out, it could bring back the franchise in a pretty big way.

A small point regarding Atlus - I do wonder if being owned by Sega gave them a higher development and marketing budget for Persona 5, which could have allowed them to make a more ambitious game.

But yeah, all in all I think it's been a pretty solid 5 year stretch, even if a good chunk of that success comes as a publisher and from licensing out their IP to other devs. But I would love to see them make some more great games developed in-house, and hopefully this 5 year stretch is a good stepping stone for that to happen. It's probably a little unfair to expect "the old Sega", but it would be great to see some more flashes here and there.
 
Why should they make VF 6 when VF 5 was a failure?
Even in the end, they made VF 5 FS for PS3 and Xbox 360 to shut up the VF fans that spammed their twitter asking for it. (Which that was also a failure.)

Capcom(Which internet loves this day) doesn't even bother to make Onimusha 5, Dino Crisis 4, God Hand 2, Okami 2, or Megaman Legends 3. And you guys expect Sega to make VF 6?

Also, it doesn't help that they have to spend really big for it in order to compete with Tekken 7.(A game which neither DOA 6 nor Soul Calibur 6 managed to even compete with.)

There's absolutely no reason why they can't outsource VF6 to another developer, though, like they've done with some of their other IPs. It all depends on the right time and circumstances. Sega have already shown they are willing to appease the fanbases of those franchises, even if it means fans and other publishers footing the development costs.
Sega of old would have made a VF6, even if running at a loss. Look at how much Panzer Dragoon Saga cost them to make on a near dead console and how many copies they ended up releasing. But they still went all out for the Dreamcast, with triple AAA budgets on many titles. It's just how Sega were back then. They are far more cautious these days so naturally, they wouldn't just outright fund a VF6. But if we can get a solid VF6 from another developer, such as LizardCube who made SoR4, then I think it'd be okay. I think Lizard have a talented enough team to do it justice, but they may need resources from Sega and an increase in team numbers to help make it the game it needs to be, especially since they'd be shifting from 2D to 3D. Hell, even Sumo Digital could co-develop. What I'm trying to say is, there are options so I wouldn't completely write off a VF6 from ever happening.
 
They're not the Sega I grew up with...and for a while...I wasn't okay with it. I missed it when they were edgy and cool, and I felt they lost that. I feel they slowly got that back with Yakuza franchise but presented itself in its own distinguishing way. I just wish they also brought back Rent-A-Hero, Virtua Cop, Virtua Strikers, and made Sonic great again
 
They weren't really that ahead of their time. They had a lucky shot with Genesis alongside having good arcade games but they did lots of mess ups after mess ups which lead to their fall.

In my opinion Sega of today is better than the 90s SEGA.(And I'm sure the 90s SEGA wouldn't make Shenmue 3 or Virtua Fighter 6 either.)
... no.

That's why the exact same motion-tech was used in the Wiimote, 7 years after Sega created that tech with their fishing rod controller, right?

First console to have a web browser, again, taking other companies 7-8 years to get that done.

Those are 2 SMALL things of the dozens and dozens of innovations they spearheaded.

But no, not innovative at all and, "lucky."

Give me a break.
 
... no.

That's why the exact same motion-tech was used in the Wiimote, 7 years after Sega created that tech with their fishing rod controller, right?

First console to have a web browser, again, taking other companies 7-8 years to get that done.

Those are 2 SMALL things of the dozens and dozens of innovations they spearheaded.

But no, not innovative at all and, "lucky."

Give me a break.

Without question Sega was innovative and ahead of there time. The only thing Sega can really be accused of is doing to much. Also Team America and Team Japan trying to sabotage one another.

It blows my mind that two divisions of the same company would do that to each other.
 
The only thing Sega can really be accused of is doing to much. Also Team America and Team Japan trying to sabotage one another.

It blows my mind that two divisions of the same company would do that to each other.

Agreed. One moment inparticular that always left a sour taste in my mouth was the whole Sonic Xtreme thing.
I understood Yuji Naka threatened to walk if Sega didn't pull the Nights engine from Sonic Xtreme (it was apparently given to the developers of SX without his knowledge). It sped up development, but once it was pulled, they lost two weeks worth of that work. Xtreme was eventually cancelled due to the team literally running themselves into the ground health wise, with the deadline now out the window.
East and west should have been supporting each other in such a difficult time. True, Xtreme wouldn't have done much at that point to save the Saturn, but still, they were all a part of the same company and they really should have acted like it.
 
At least Sega of today doesn't have it's boss calling their product "Not their future".(It was pretty stupid and unprofessional that SOA boss said that about Saturn which resulted in it dying too soon.)
 
At least Sega of today doesn't have it's boss calling their product "Not their future".(It was pretty stupid and unprofessional that SOA boss said that about Saturn which resulted in it dying too soon.)

Comments from SOA didn't kill the Saturn. A number of reasons prior to them did. Like complex hardware, bad business decisions and poor marketing, not to mention the squabbling and internal confict inside Sega at that point.
 
Comments from SOA didn't kill the Saturn. A number of reasons prior to them did. Like complex hardware, bad business decisions and poor marketing, not to mention the squabbling and internal struggles inside Sega at that point.
It was actually the final blow that killed that system. That comment made the 3rd party publishers to cancel their upcoming games.(Because he basically said, "Our system is a failure. Don't buy it!")
That guy was also the main reason lots of great Saturn games were never properly released on USA.(Shining Force 3 episodes 2 and 3, Castlevania SOTN Saturn , etc)

These lead to some fans feeling betrayed by Sega and not buying Dreamcast.

On the other hand, Nintendo kept supporting the Wii U until the release of Switch despite this that it was a failure.
 
The Dreamcast broke records at the time for the most successful launch of a console in North America doing 300k pre-orders off the bat and selling over 500k 2 weeks into release.

I dont think people being pissed at the Saturn stopped sales.
 
Comments from SOA didn't kill the Saturn. A number of reasons prior to them did. Like complex hardware, bad business decisions and poor marketing, not to mention the squabbling and internal confict inside Sega at that point.

It seems there were a number of consoles that were complex to develop for. I heard that the PS3 was complicated to develop for. Wouldn't make sense to make your hardware welcoming to any and all developers?

The internal conflict was just plain dumb. If you sabotage a division of your own company it hurts you. I'm surprised that there wasn't someone who superseded everyone and made everybody play ball.
 
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