Shenmue 3 FAQ's Up. Shenmue 3 will come to Steam

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Yes the Wallmart Trailer has much a more promotional character than then the E3 footage that is true. Showing just one aspect of gameplay without any explanations is the wrong way. I wonder why they do it. They should know how to work out a Trailer with a much better promotional character then they did in the past. A good Trailer Needs to Show a bit of every aspect of game.
 
GhostTrick said:
At some point, just fuckin hire @Peter and let him edit footage ffs. Heck, I'm sure he'd do it for free but even for cash, he's already doing a better job than what's being handed here.
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We all would. That's the thing. At least Sega did engage us with the re-releases via the fan communities.
 
Interesting video. It appears Steam was never actually in the original terms during the KS and explains from a legal standpoint why those requesting a refund under KS terms would not be entitled to one.

 
I doubt there will be any teeth to a class action suit. I doubt the type of people who are jumping up and down like monkeys on the Kickstarter can organize hundreds of people to join in on a lawsuit or find a lawyer who'd see a winnable case. Hoeg still raises the issue that it's a moral and ethical failing on the part of the team, and that it should be rectified.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
I doubt there will be any teeth to a class action suit. I doubt the type of people who are jumping up and down like monkeys on the Kickstarter can organize hundreds of people to join in on a lawsuit or find a lawyer who'd see a winnable case. Hoeg still raises the issue that it's a moral and ethical failing on the part of the team, and that it should be rectified.
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Yeah, I don't we'd win at this point. But it's still just lacking on all fronts.
 
Anyone working in a company large enough to have an established policy on responding to threats of legal action knows that the policy is - don't respond at all to threats of legal action.

mjqjazzbar said:
I doubt there will be any teeth to a class action suit. I doubt the type of people who are jumping up and down like monkeys on the Kickstarter can organize hundreds of people to join in on a lawsuit or find a lawyer who'd see a winnable case. Hoeg still raises the issue that it's a moral and ethical failing on the part of the team, and that it should be rectified.
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An attorney doesn't need to see a winnable case to take it on. There are attorneys who will take money from people to file a suit, even it the attorney realizes the case is sure to be dismissed. So, who will step up to hire the attorney? Surely with so many litigious internet commenters it could be crowdfunded.
 
Reprise said:
Yup. Been trying to explain that one...
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About that:

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Stop using that video. Or at least watch it. There's no problem in saying the Kickstarter never promised a Steam key. That point has been acknowledged since the begining. The tricky part is the order made on Fangamer, which the video didn't talked about. And they acknowledge themselves that the fact it was said "Steam Disc" "Steam download" holds a lot more weight than a system requirements.

It was never about system requirements. It always was about the item name. Now they make a point that it'd be difficult to show damages. This is where I disagree because there's been a lot of cases where a change of delivery or service was enough to gain cause.
 
Why should they stop sharing it? Legal issues aren’t cut and dry. That is the lawyers interpretation. If another lawyer wants to share their thoughts in a video or essay format they should and we will listen.
 
It would be delicious if backers crowdfund together in order to take legal action and then end up fighting amongst themselves over how to use the money.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
Why should they stop sharing it? Legal issues aren’t cut and dry. That is the lawyers interpretation. If another lawyer wants to share their thoughts in a video or essay format they should and we will listen.
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I didn't say stop sharing it. I said stop using it as an argument to end the conversation. Or at least watch it, because there's more to it. As I said, the video only cover the Kickstarter campaign, which we ALL acknowledged here. This was never the problem since indeed, a Kickstarter has NO LEGAL BINDING. And the Kickstarter campaign NEVER mentionned Steam. That, we all agree.

But the legal doubt never lied here.

It was always about how we should consider it when we transitionned to Fangamer. Because despite them saying "survey", it is more akin to an order or a purchase than a survey.
 
GhostTrick said:
About that:

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Stop using that video. Or at least watch it. There's no problem in saying the Kickstarter never promised a Steam key. That point has been acknowledged since the begining. The tricky part is the order made on Fangamer, which the video didn't talked about. And they acknowledge themselves that the fact it was said "Steam Disc" "Steam download" holds a lot more weight than a system requirements.

It was never about system requirements. It always was about the item name. Now they make a point that it'd be difficult to show damages. This is where I disagree because there's been a lot of cases where a change of delivery or service was enough to gain cause.
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there is another response from him:

The backer survey gave two options for delivery, "PlayStation" or "Steam".
For PC requirements, Steam was a requirement. There was an '*' for PC requirements,
stating system requirements may change. As the * only speaks to system requirements,
would choosing Steam count towards saying Steam was promised outside of requirements?

It's possible (and again, not taking into account the Kickstarter terms at all). More likely, however,
it would be read as (i) we promised PC, (ii) we elected initially to deliver PC through Steam, (iii)
we changed our minds to deliver PC through EGS, (iv) you still receive "PC".
 
Tosh said:
there is another response from him:

The backer survey gave two options for delivery, "PlayStation" or "Steam".
For PC requirements, Steam was a requirement. There was an '*' for PC requirements,
stating system requirements may change. As the * only speaks to system requirements,
would choosing Steam count towards saying Steam was promised outside of requirements?

It's possible (and again, not taking into account the Kickstarter terms at all). More likely, however,
it would be read as (i) we promised PC, (ii) we elected initially to deliver PC through Steam, (iii)
we changed our minds to deliver PC through EGS, (iv) you still receive "PC".
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No. You got it wrong.
For PC requirements, Steam was a requirement. You'd be right if in the Fangamer order, they'd say "PC digital/physical" with Steam as a requirement that may change.

In that case, that would mean
"We promise you a PC version, that activates through Steam* (this can change)".

But we were promised a Steam Disc/Digital.

In that case, it is:
"We promise you a Steam product".
 
GhostTrick said:
About that:

unknown.png


Stop using that video. Or at least watch it. There's no problem in saying the Kickstarter never promised a Steam key. That point has been acknowledged since the begining. The tricky part is the order made on Fangamer, which the video didn't talked about. And they acknowledge themselves that the fact it was said "Steam Disc" "Steam download" holds a lot more weight than a system requirements.

It was never about system requirements. It always was about the item name. Now they make a point that it'd be difficult to show damages. This is where I disagree because there's been a lot of cases where a change of delivery or service was enough to gain cause.
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Here's the thing though, I'd actually bet a significant sum of money that even if the Fangamer survey had referred to the PC version as simply "PC disc" or "digital PC code" the PC gamers would still be whinging and moaning about how they have been "wronged and "betrayed", and would be demanding refunds or Steam codes. This isn't about Deep Silver and YSNet changing the distribution platform, this is about PC gamers not liking Epic, end of. Just look at all the hyperbole about it being spyware, which ignores the fact that Windows itself is pretty much spyware at this point.

Shame we've got no way of finding that out though.
 
Haven't both you just interpreted the same sentence in completely differing ways?

This is why legal issues are long and protracted. I see this at work regularly.

Hell look at the topics. Many people interpreting the same sentences in a different way. None of us (as far as I know) are practicing lawyers. So imagine how complex this is for them. It's not cut and dry on either side.
 
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I've come to the conclusion that GhostTrick is right. As the Fangamer reward fulfillment page was treated as an order, backers should be eligible for a refund.

Therefore I call on Fangamer and YsNet to refund all of the $0.00 that backers processed in the transaction for that order on Fangamer.

In the rare occurance that someone pledged an additional amount for an additional copy of the game that happendd to be a PC version (was that possible?), then a refund of $60 or $29 should be given.
 
I don't think anyone here is "throwing fellow fans under the bus," as @Space Lion has put it. It's just since this terrible Epic decision was announced the PC gamer "fans" have controlled the narrative over this Epic debocle instead of all of the new footage and info getting disseminated properly. This was the E3 for Shenmue 3 and was supposed to be awesome and the whole thing was overshadowed.
 
Reprise said:
I've come to the conclusion that GhostTrick is right. As the Fangamer reward fulfillment page was treated as an order, backers should be eligible for a refund.

Therefore I call on Fangamer and YsNet to refund all of the $0.00 that backers processed in the transaction for that order on Fangamer.

In the rare occurance that someone pledged an additional amount for an additional copy of the game that happendd to be a PC version (was that possible?), then a refund of $60 or $29 should be given.
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Nice try. But then that'd require you to refund the prepaid amount. Think of it as a Gift card on Amazon. :)
 
thefavoriteplay said:
I don't think anyone here is "throwing fellow fans under the bus," as @Space Lion has put it. It's just since this terrible Epic decision was announced the PC gamer "fans" have controlled the narrative over this Epic debocle instead of all of the new footage and info getting disseminated properly. This was the E3 for Shenmue 3 and was supposed to be awesome and the whole thing was overshadowed.
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Honestly, I'm starting to think this overshadowing everything is a blessing in disguise. The less "Shenmue enthusiast" publications are already killing the game.
 
I think the Steam key should be refunded if desired, but I am not convinced the rest of the reward should be. How do you deal with products that may have already been produced, NPCs that have already been created, dinners with Yu that have already been eaten? Seems like a clusterfuck beyond game refunds. I know I am going for the most extreme or the rarest cases, but I how will the team distinguish?
 
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