Shenmue IV Will Happen - Here's Why!

[thedemon1238]

I still fail to understand why Microsoft would buy SEGA in the first place? They have almost the entire SEGA catalog in gamepass. What they don't have yet, they will have soon.

Suppose one day Shenmue 4 comes out. They just need to go to YSnet, SEGA, 110 or whoever, offer a few million and Shenmue 4 will be on gamepass for 1 year. To them, games like Shenmue 4 are no different than games like The Good Life. A game from a famous Japanese developer, made with less money, that has some kind of fanbase.... Something to diversify their catalog with. I don't think Microsoft's business in the future is making or producing games.

Microsoft are playing at a much higher level now. They want to provide a platform where others can showcase their games. And they, as landlords, only collect the fees, provide cloud streaming and other services. They are forced to have their own content because of the specifics of the subscription services. But they hope to be like Steam one day, meaning they don't need their own content. It is a little doubtful that they will succeed, but we will see in the future.

As much as it pains me to say it, the time when they funded Sakaguchi is long gone. They feel like a big fish in the game business for the last decade and the funding of other studios is beneath their dignity. Totally agree with spud1897. They already own a lot of series that they don't use to their full potential. At least at the moment.

 

[JP_]

I think expecting Sega to support Shenmue in a proper meaningful way is a bit of a forlorn hope. Higher-ups at Sega seem to have some sort of a grudge against Yu Suzuki and Shenmue specifically, presumably because they (in my opinion unfairly) consider them responsible for Sega’s struggles in the early 2000s. Just look at how Yu Suzuki gets treated now - he gets patronisingly rolled out for the occasional appearance here and there, more like a mascot than a game developer. Given they treat him like a senile old grandad you humour at family gatherings, why would they get behind him for anything serious like a Shenmue game?

 

[KiddMarine]

The second Microsoft tries to buy SEGA is the second I set myself on fire outside their Redmond offices in protest.

 

[thedemon1238]

I don't think there is grudge towards Shenmue. The higher ups wouldn't be able to buy SEGA if SEGA wasn't in dire straits financially. So rather they should be grateful to Shenmue, as strange as it sounds. Hajime Satomi wouldn't be able to buy SEGA for his son Haruki Satomi.

Shenmue was more of a project of the "old" SEGA. The old management was aware that it could not be an instant success and Shenmue as a project had other functions. The idea was to show the true capabilities of SEGA consoles, a kind of tech demo, killer app, etc. Other games would have made up for Shenmue's losses, like Virtua Fighter, etc. This type of projects was common in the 1990s and early 20th century.

When SEGA no longer has a console and when Sammy comes to power, there comes a point where they didn't know what to do with the series. The old plan of other games covering the losses was no longer in the foreground.

At least that's what I think. I don't think it's anything personal towards Shenmue, just business. :) At the moment, they probably don't care because Shenmue is quite an expensive pleasure, and there is no point in competing with Yakuza. At least for now. Maybe at some point when the Yakuza series starts to sell less, things will change and they will look for other ways.

 

[Valascaziel]

Microsoft wants to up their game to better compete with Playstation and Phil Spencer wanted to buy Nintendo to achieve this end so he should focus on acquiring Sega by any means necessary.

With Microsofts money Sega would return to their glory days and make groundbreaking innovative games with huge budgets and Xbox would finally be a viable alternative to PlayStation.

No, they likely won't. Not one studio they've ever bought has turned things around. Many have simply vanished into obscurity.

Bethesda turned out a stinker in Redfall, Starfield was good but not GOTY material, the Hellblade people haven't even gotten their sequel out the door, Rare used to be one of the golden devs in the Nintendo era and are essentially just...gone now.

Activision just shat out a $70 glorified expansion pack for their CoD release, Overwatch 2 is a horrid balance, Diablo was weak, etc.

Monopolization and consolidation of the game industry is *extremely* bad for gamers and it speaks rather ill of Microsoft to say "Well, we own all these studios but we can't compete so let's bust out the checkbook and buy our way to victory.".


Look--Microsoft lost their way because they failed to grow organically and have tried, many times, to do things that gamers *do not want*.

They got roasted in 2013 with their Xbox One reveal with restrictions for online, used games, a weaker console and a $100 price difference. Then when you're challenged on it, telling Geoff Keighley *LIVE* "if you don't like it, buy a 360"?

Missteps like that can cost you dearly and that's a big part of why they are in their situation. Don Mattrick almost single handedly destroyed Xbox in one E3.

They had to backpedal so quickly, because I was an upper manager at GameStop back then(and they were far more powerful a retail company than they are now).

Corporate outright refused to stock stores with more than a handful of Xbox One because their system was against their entire business.

Most of my stores were able to reserve 50 to 70 PS4s and a maximum of 8 to 10 Xbox. Many of my stores didn't even reserve all their Xboxs until several days later, the backlash was so bad. That's why they reversed course, but that taste lingers.


I'm not saying they *can't* do it, but I've not seen evidence to the contrary.

Sony isn't innocent, but they got to where they are by listening to what gamers want, growing their studios and going for developer purchases that weren't *entire publishers*. And no, Bungie still has the ability to do multiplatform. It was in their contract.

Microsoft just went through Hell to get Activision Blizzard and any purchase on that scale again will bring a severely scrutinous eye from the FTC, CMA and other regulatory bodies.

 

[Seaman]

Sega sold out their IPs to the highest bidders in the early 2000s just to make a quick buck.

Sega didn't sold any IP. They went multiplatform publisher and software developers, keeping their ownership over their licenses.

Not only did Sega begin as an American company, Segas success was always in America not Japan. At one point Sega had 55% of the video game market in the United States!

At one point, exactly. A grain doesn't make desert. That was just a very specific moment that didn't lasted long (1994). Sega was more succesful in Europe than America by far, with Master System and Megadrive. And Saturn was a smash hit in Japan.
About the american origins, when Sega started making consoles, the american branch was defunct since ages.

Sega of Japan resented Sega of America for the success of the Genesis in the US so Yuji Naka stopped Sega Technical Institute from using “his” engine which resulted in the cancellation of Sonic Xtreme dooming the Saturn and then Sega of Japan refused to go with Sega of America’s Black Belt Voodoo 3DFX chip which would have guaranteed Segas technical dominance over Nintendo and Sony.

3DFX broke confidential terms leaking to the press about their involvement while Sega still tried to revive Saturn for a last time.

About Yuji Naka (also false):
https://www.gamerbraves.com/yuji-na...-threatened-to-leave-sega-over-sonic-x-treme/

https://www.megavisions.net/yuji-na...-responsible-for-sonic-x-tremes-cancellation/

Yu Suzuki has even indicated a willingness to move his family to The US if he could be the head of a major studio again and continue Shenmue.

This is directly false. Yu Suzuki never stated this. Why inventing?

Did you know that Xbox was intended to essentially BE the Dreamcast? Microsoft approached Sega with a offer to purchase them and have Xbox be compatable with ALL Dreamcast games. Microsoft was being magnanimous but Sega stubbornly refused which resulted in their hostile takeover by Sammy. BTW the first thing Sammy did was close down Suzuki’s new studio Digital Rex which was said to have already begun preliminary work on Shenmue 3.

The X project was independent to Dreamcast as its development started almost at the same time, matching with 3DO M2 as well. It was Sega the ones pushing for compatibility and Microsoft refusing... Why misinforming this much?
https://www.destructoid.com/sega-pushed-for-dreamcast-compatiblity-with-the-xbox/

Microsoft needs to acquire Sega now and the have the funds to do it. If Sega turns them down again Microsoft will simply execute a hostile takeover.

Have you learned "hostile takeover" recently?

Sammy executing hostile takeover on Sega was a matter of pointview. I agree that many actors in the game media percieved it like this. Others thought that Sega needed cash flow and Sammy provided it. But the proceedings qualify for hostile, so yes this could be the only true statement you've made.

 

[bcdcdude]

Microsoft needs to acquire Sega now and the have the funds to do it. If Sega turns them down again Microsoft will simply execute a hostile takeover.

Hard disagree. The reason why so many people are passionate about Sega games is predominiately because they are Japanese made. For me, Japanese games have so much more heart and soul than American games (even though as you say Sega's success is more western based).

Sega's failure is also predominatley American made (32X anyone?)


This video is fascinating and goes into great detail at how arrogant Sega of America got. Of course Sega of Japan were arrogant too, but given the choice between the two of them, i'd side with SoJ seeing as they made the games that define Sega.

Microsoft buying Sega 20 years ago might have made a tiny bit of sense, but in this consolidation age (and the fact that Microsoft are wasting talent and IP left right and centre), this would be the last thing anybody needs.

 

[darksniper]

The only company that I think would even attempt to churn out Sega IP's is if Nintendo bought them. But that will never happen. At first I thought maybe Sony would benefit greatly from acquiring Sega (essentially fusing together the Sega PlayStation) but Sony has their own loooong list of dormant IP's that they've done nothing with. In fact they're just as guilty as Sega for killing off good IP's for nothing.

Even still, I think Sony would be the best place to go if Sega were to sell. It would behoove Sony to utilize Sega's massive arcade libary to bolster their VR market quickly and efficiently (Daytona VR, Virtua Cop VR, Space Harrier VR etc.)

 

[shadowreaper]

I highly doubt Microsoft is interested in buying Sega. And even if they did I can’t see them green lighting a Shenmue game. They’d probably double down on IPs that are historically big sellers.

 

[9dragons]

I can understand why some people have high hopes for Sega to support S4. But modern-day Sega is not the creative Sega of the 90s anymore. The company is run by accountants these days and the idea that might support a series that broke the neck of old Sega 23 years ago is rather unlikely. Modern-day Sega just plays save like a very big publisher these days and won't take the risk to give new life to some of their old franchises.

I also doubt that MS would be interested in buying Sega and if they really plan to do that why would that be a great thing for Shenmue? MS has not been super innovative these days.

They seem to be more focused on distributing games and not making the best games as possible.


@bcdcdude There were no saints at Sega of Japan either that is for sure but as you said SOJ was the company that made the games great. But I would never call them arrogant. According website Mega Drive Shock you can find many good articles from the Japanese point of view. SOJ gave their American counterparts lots of freedom and let them do their own thing instead of thinking globally. That was a big part of killing Sega.

Sony on the other hand defended its global strategy with claws. They wanted to have a global Playstation brand. They did not want to divide the brand into Japan, Europe, and America.

They kicked out many American Managers like Race, Olafson when they wanted to run the North American Operations the way they wanted.

Sega on the other hand wasted way to much time with infighting between America and Japan. The European market was completely ignored.

A tight grip in Sony style might have made things easier. Sega would have saved some money that way at least. With a global vision, there might have been just one Sega Next Gen console and not 2 different projects. One American and one Japanese.

 

[Seaman]

I wouldn't call arrogant SoA neither. Because looking back in perspective, both parties seemed genuily seeking for ruling the market.
Before internet boom in 1995 it really wasn't easy to think globally but in closed separated markets, and while that had lots of disadvantages it was rich soil for a less homogeneous videogame landscape.
Also its a pitty that SoJ didn't supported 32x more. If 32x had the already made Saturn processors instead of the cheaper versions, was branded and marketed different... Who knows what could have happened? Maybe there werent Model1-3 and Saturn games along early DC releases would had been launched on Mega32X which was capable of unique and advanced 3D rendering.
There was also the practically unexplored path of 3D chips embedded into game cartridges, with only Virtua Racing making use of it.

 

[9dragons]

That's a fair point @Seaman . It i easy to bash the Sega entities for it' short sighted views but that is not fair. The just operated the only way they know. The global approach of Sony was unheared in the 90s and took the industry by suprise.
I just find it sad that Sega neglected the European market. From all the different Sega entities Europe was the weakest market.

During the Saturn era the marketing was also non existent and during the Dreamcast time they wasted the marketing money for weird stuff. Like sponsoring Soccer Clubs. Even the official European Dreamcast magazine was weird compared to the US mag which was a classic gaming mag. The UK and German Official Mag was a strange lifestyle magazine.

SOA and SOJ both did good and bad things but Sega of Europe was a real mess.

 

[Reprise]

Even the official European Dreamcast magazine was weird compared to the US mag which was a classic gaming mag. The UK and German Official Mag was a strange lifestyle magazine.

Please wash your mouth out with soap. That magazine was fantastic! Well written, fair and objective reviews (unlike just about every other official magazine that came before or followed it - including the still fantastic Official Saturn magazine) and great articles. I always enjoyed the review round up discussions they did too.

 

[9dragons]

Then the Offical English Magazine is better than the German one. I assumed due to the same layout that the German mag was just a translation of the UK mag and the people writing for the German magazine did not know much about gaming at all. The UK had many great magazines of course. The official Saturn magazine was great and they also had some great unofficial DC magazines.

 

[Reprise]

Ah I was messing about, it's cool if you didn't like it. I have no idea if the German one was a translation or not. The UK one did have some good writers though, for example Ed Lomas who had worked on Computer & Video Games Magazine and quite a few other big magazines.

The design itself though was very much more "men's lifestyle" and clearly targeted at an older audience.

 

[9dragons]

I know you were just messing about it you still prove me wrong. I checked the UK mag out now, it is still inferior to the unoffical dc mags but it was much better than the German one. The German has a strange design and incompotent writers. The Uk version has just a strange design but rather compotent writers. So the mags just have the same design. The content itself is different.

 

[Reprise]

I liked it. All the UK Dreamcast mags here seemed pretty good though. DC-UK was very nice (and rumour has it that they were going to bid for the official licence, but pulled out at the last minute due to Sony kicking up a fuss, as they also did the official PlayStation magazine). The unofficial Dreamcast magazine lasted the longest out of them all, which is commendable and I liked that they reviewed lots of imports.

I still appreciate how harsh the Official UK DC magazine was though. It was much fairer than the official Saturn magazine that preceded it (although I do think the official Saturn mag was waaaay better), which had a tendency to give pretty much every game imaginable over 70% unless it really was complete rubbish (and any exclusive or first party game was bound to get high 80s minimum).

 

[Hermit]

I still fail to understand why Microsoft would buy SEGA in the first place? They have almost the entire SEGA catalog in gamepass. What they don't have yet, they will have soon.

Suppose one day Shenmue 4 comes out. They just need to go to YSnet, SEGA, 110 or whoever, offer a few million and Shenmue 4 will be on gamepass for 1 year. To them, games like Shenmue 4 are no different than games like The Good Life. A game from a famous Japanese developer, made with less money, that has some kind of fanbase.... Something to diversify their catalog with. I don't think Microsoft's business in the future is making or producing games.

Microsoft are playing at a much higher level now. They want to provide a platform where others can showcase their games. And they, as landlords, only collect the fees, provide cloud streaming and other services. They are forced to have their own content because of the specifics of the subscription services. But they hope to be like Steam one day, meaning they don't need their own content. It is a little doubtful that they will succeed, but we will see in the future.

As much as it pains me to say it, the time when they funded Sakaguchi is long gone. They feel like a big fish in the game business for the last decade and the funding of other studios is beneath their dignity. Totally agree with spud1897. They already own a lot of series that they don't use to their full potential. At least at the moment.

They want Sega because it would instantly give them a spot in the Japanese market, something they have been searching for since the original Xbox.

 

[bcdcdude]

I liked it. All the UK Dreamcast mags here seemed pretty good though. DC-UK was very nice (and rumour has it that they were going to bid for the official licence, but pulled out at the last minute due to Sony kicking up a fuss, as they also did the official PlayStation magazine). The unofficial Dreamcast magazine lasted the longest out of them all, which is commendable and I liked that they reviewed lots of imports.

I still appreciate how harsh the Official UK DC magazine was though. It was much fairer than the official Saturn magazine that preceded it (although I do think the official Saturn mag was waaaay better), which had a tendency to give pretty much every game imaginable over 70% unless it really was complete rubbish (and any exclusive or first party game was bound to get high 80s minimum).

I adore the UK Sega Saturn Magazine; I still have a couple of dozen issues. The editor is now the leader of Digital Foundry! The official Dreamcast Magazine was fine (they dropped the lifestyle vibe after a few issues), but it didn't have the same gamey vibe. Still, their review of Shenmue was glorious. Shame it ended so rapidly (only 21 issues I think).

 

[Reprise]

I adore the UK Sega Saturn Magazine; I still have a couple of dozen issues. The editor is now the leader of Digital Foundry! The official Dreamcast Magazine was fine (they dropped the lifestyle vibe after a few issues), but it didn't have the same gamey vibe. Still, their review of Shenmue was glorious. Shame it ended so rapidly (only 21 issues I think).

Yup, I have a few Official Saturn mags too (and Official Sega mags before they changed the name). Richard Leadbetter is a bit of a legend really. He wrote for a load of great mags back in the 90s, and of course became the editor for the Official Sega/Saturn magazine and also a shortlived rival to Edge that was called Maximum magazine. I only have one issue of that one, but it seems really good.

I agree the Official Dreamcast magazine wasn't as gamey or fun, but I still really liked it. I still have my DC mags too. Their Shenmue review was incredible. I remember buying the magazine and re-reading that review over and over again, being blown away by how amazing it sounded and the stunning screenshots. I think it was 10 pages long if I remember correctly. That same issue also came with a demo disc with the 4 minute ish trailer of Shenmue, which I also watched over and over again.