Shenmue IV Will Happen - Here's Why!

Is there a chance it won't happen? Especially now with the economy going down the toilet?

To play devils advocate (since I REALLY want Shenmue IV to happen) but is there a chance it doesn't? Investors weren't exactly chomping at the bit to invest in III until we put our money where our mouth is. Would they be willing to invest in IV in this current shit hole of a financial climate?

I'm very keen to see how all of this effects the industry at the moment. Will we see the rise of smaller budgeted projects? (the re-rise of the AA market) or will we see people pulling the strings even tighter on the purse?
Its something to watch but as I understand it many firms are working from home so things have slowed with some releases pushed back.

My inclination is that they will take a knock for now but development plans etc towards the end of the year will be ok once the new releases come out. Also more people are playing games because of lockdown so some sales will have been generated.

It's a good point either way.
 
They'll laugh when he presents to them a 25 million purchase agreement from Sega Corporation?

The bank has an opportunity here to make a cool 5 million on this loan.


There's something I dont understand:
Why wouldn't SEGA fund it directly ?
Why would they pay 25 millions OUTFRONT in ONE time as a purchase agreement when they could just... pay for devs, month by month.

Your logic is that SEGA might be worried that Yu Suzuki doesn't finish the game. That's not their worry at all. Their worry is to give 25 millions dollars to result in a loss (highly likely) or barely break even.

Even if the game made a profit... what's the point ? When a publisher puts a high amount of money, they expect a high profit. Big risks for big rewards.

To break even, just break even, a game with that kind of budget would need to sell next to 1 million units at full price. I let you imagine how much more copies they'd need to sell for a sizeable profit.

In Shenmue III's case, there is or there was basically 2 possible objectives following the release:

- Making the case for a higher budgeted Shenmue IV release, with more time and funding to developp. I think that's pretty much dead following Shenmue III's critical and commercial reception. Believe it or not, doing financially "fine" with two exclusive deals and more than half the funding with a Kickstarter built on a 15 years hype, it doesn't give a lot of confidence for publishers to put a lot of money there.

- Making the case for a smaller budgeted Shenmue IV release, based on what was built with Shenmue III. I think that's pretty much where we're heading now. Is it a desirable scenario though ? I don't know. If it's to get another Shenmue III... not really. But that's actually a safer case for most publishers. "We can make a new game with 4 million dollars". That's an appealing offer. But the critical reception is still an issue. Why fund a 4 million dollars game when you're not even getting a title that benefits your line-up in term of quality ?
 
Let's be fair its been critically mixed in response with an average of 6.8 on Metacritic. Let's just get that fact out there. It's not terrible. The user score is higher but that could be skewed with the 0's and counter 10's left.

Secondly we don't know the sales yet. Whether it has performed well or not we just don't know and probably wont for a while yet. The game was never going to shift 1 million copies but it could have done 300k sales for all we know.

Also newsflash people negotiate exclusives all the time. I see your point but making that out to be outside of the norm is ludicrous.

That said I agree with the general point you're making.
 
Let's be fair its been critically mixed in response with an average of 6.8 on Metacritic. Let's just get that fact out there. It's not terrible. The user score is higher but that could be skewed with the 0's and counter 10's left.

Secondly we don't know the sales yet. Whether it has performed well or not we just don't know and probably wont for a while yet. The game was never going to shift 1 million copies but it could have done 300k sales for all we know.

Also newsflash people negotiate exclusives all the time. I see your point but making that out to be outside of the norm is ludicrous.

That said I agree with the general point you're making.


It's not bad at all indeed and I want to make it clear: It's close to a 7, it's decent. But the point I'm trying to make is that usually, publishers either want to fund a game for big profits but also sometimes to have a high quality title in their line-up. That's the reason why Sony has been funding Team ICO games. While knowing those wouldn't sell a lot, they knew what to expect in quality. The point is to get a prestige title.

Thing is, Shenmue III isn't a game that scored overall a 8 or even 9. It doesn't fall in the "prestige title" category.

Also about exclusives: I have nothing against them depending on context. I'm not saying it's outside of the norm. What I'm saying is that it's a way to offset the risk. And for a publisher, to break even on a game with 2 exclusive deals and a crowdfunding campaign is a tough sell. I'm not dunking on the game for having exclusive deals mind you. What I'm saying is that for a publisher, if their only hope to get their money back is to convince 2 parties to buy an exclusivity deal and rely on crowdfunding, that's complicated. Especially when in the end, it's not a prestige title you're getting here.
 
Perhaps this is just my inner fan speaking, but if I were an investor and Shenmue III bombed, I wouldn't hesitate to invest in a Shenmue IV. The reward for me isn't money, it's investing in an experience like no other. I once said that if I had to carry this franchise on my back alone then I would.

If Shenmue's future is in other media then so be it. I will support Shenmue as an anime, comic, or whatever. However since it started out as a video game series, I'd like to see it end as one.

I have a great idea on how Shenmue 4 can be made, this time without resorting to Kickstarter.

Yu should go to Sega and tell them that he will assume the entire financial risk of making Shenmue 4 in exchange for Sega purchasing the game from him for publishing rights as long as the finished game meets the high quality standards set by the first 2 games.

This arrangement is no risk to Sega because if the game's costs exceed the budget it's not Sega's problem, they would not be obligated to purchase the game until it is completed.

Then Yu can borrow the money to fund the game's development by using Sega's agreed upon purchase price as collateral.

Those posts have to be trolling attempts, i refuse to believe that anyone can be delusional enough to write them with a straight face.
 
It's not bad at all indeed and I want to make it clear: It's close to a 7, it's decent. But the point I'm trying to make is that usually, publishers either want to fund a game for big profits but also sometimes to have a high quality title in their line-up. That's the reason why Sony has been funding Team ICO games. While knowing those wouldn't sell a lot, they knew what to expect in quality. The point is to get a prestige title.

Thing is, Shenmue III isn't a game that scored overall a 8 or even 9. It doesn't fall in the "prestige title" category.

Also about exclusives: I have nothing against them depending on context. I'm not saying it's outside of the norm. What I'm saying is that it's a way to offset the risk. And for a publisher, to break even on a game with 2 exclusive deals and a crowdfunding campaign is a tough sell. I'm not dunking on the game for having exclusive deals mind you. What I'm saying is that for a publisher, if their only hope to get their money back is to convince 2 parties to buy an exclusivity deal and rely on crowdfunding, that's complicated. Especially when in the end, it's not a prestige title you're getting here.
So had you made that clear in the process of your original post I'd have likely not replied.

The Team ICO games are a matter of opinion, I hated Shadow of Colossus with a passion but loved Last Guardian but yes they did review generally well. I never played ICO so I can't comment on that. From having played the other 2 games they're also very different to Shenmue in scope, lots of wondering around wastelands etc with set-pieces/boss type fights. Not a criticism at all and probably likely more appealing from a cost perspective as you can reuse lots of assets throughout. Last Guardian is one of my favourite games of this generation.

On average, no it didn't but in some outlets it did achieve those scores. I think a 6.8 (rounded to 7) is about right overall given the well discussed flaws. So there is something there that a publisher can work with and Shenmue does carry a presence in gaming history, for better or woese.

In terms of the exclusivity deals, we know Sony came in and backed the franchise hence their exclusive deal. Had Microsoft came in I suspect we would have seen the same thing. That's not a protection of investment either, Sony saw the name as a coo for E3 2015 and given the buzz generated it certainly was and further backed their stance at the time that they were "for the players". It likely generated PS4 sales and then further game sales, which were directly because people bought a PS4 for Shenmue. Now I agree it isn't going to be a huge amount of money but I reckon they made their money back on the deal they had in place, certainly through indirect channels. Just my 2 cents on that.

Deep Silver going down the Epic route is something they have done more frequently with their recent games, the biggest being Metro. Now why wouldn't you as a business take a set sum of money upfront which likely means something breaks even before it goes on sale? More and more publishers/Indie studios are doing this because it makes business sense. It might not be appealing to the larger publishers but they're also better placed to take the hit should things go south in a hurry. Plus your dramatising again, it wasn't their only hope to make money their money back but clearly part of a plan they had for the game to ensure profit. It gives them a solid return on-top of sales and given it did meet expectations (we can guess all we want whether that was due to the Epic Deal or not) that gives Yu Suzuki a card to play with.

Should we see a Shenmue 4 I could certainly see something like that happening again as a wider money making model, which is becoming much more common place in these more niche games that we see.

Is it enticing enough for Sega to come on and fund the game given their cash-cow franchises? Probably not. They could afford to but given they're making money off of outsourcing their older licences why would they? One thing I do think is safe to say is there probably won't be any issue with Yu Suzuki getting the IP again for Shenmue 4.
 
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Chu Chu Rocket
Crazy Taxi
Daytona USA 2001
Dynamite Cop
Headhunter
House of the Dead
Jet Set Radio
NHL 2K
Samba Di Amigo
Sega Rally 2
Shenmue
Shenmue 2
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Virtua Tennis
Zombie Revenge

All those franchises bar Sonic are dead

I wouldn't say Shenmue is currently a dead franchise lol.
House of the Dead is getting a remake by the same guys who are doing the Panzer Dragoon remake, too.

But yeah, overall it sucks that Sega have abandoned most of their best IPs. Skies of Arcadia is another.
But are their in-house developers actually any good these days? We rarely see anything of AM2 anymore, for instants. They did Border Break and Hatsune Miku most recently. But other than that...?

As sucky as it sounds, I'm more inclined to trust outside developers who are actually showing love for these franchises to do a better job on them than Sega would.
 
i don’t see why or how the fourth game in this series would suddenly print money

Shenmue 4 could probably print money with the right budget, production values and some real marketing.

Look at Shenmue 1&2, even in their worst form ever as a buggy, incomplete and real cheap ports, they sold pretty well, it shows that this series has still lots of potential to shine.
 
I suppose that’s true, but I think it’s likelier we will see a Shenmue 4 that has similar production values to Shenmue 3. Now, I think with some post-release perspective and feedback from the public the team can make a more refined game, but I don’t expect they’ll see any major increases in budget. Timing is half the battle, but I still find it hard to believe the fourth game in a fairly obscure (in 2020 and beyond) series will make waves. If it’s something that improves drastically on Shenmue IV... maybe.

How they get there is anyone’s guess. It is true that Yakuza improved quite a bit with each iteration, so perhaps iterating on Shenmue 3 will get Ys Net there as well... The game is certainly not beyond saving or improving with some tweaks.

I still wish Sega and Deep Silver could find a way to package the first three games together at a discounted price. I think that is one strategy that has been missing. It would make dipping your toes into the series quite attractive. There is so much marketing that could work, but it doesn’t seem like Sega or Deep Silver see the worth.
 
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I hope S4 budget will be at least on par with Shenmue 3, this time with all the assets ready that can be re-used, they could really make a more refined game.

The ideal would be to have at least a budget of 20 million, that way we could have production values similar (or even higher) to the Yakuza series, and this would greatly increase the chances for S4 to be a success of critics and sales.
 
Thus far we know lack of story is a major downfall of Shenmue 3. I don’t think a similar budget would preclude Shenmue IV from containing a much more interesting story. That’s down to direction and talent. That’s one area alone that could potentially make Shenmue IV a superior game.
 
dialogues, cutscenes, scenario etc. cost lots of money, time and resources to make.

higher budget = more story
lower budget = less story

If the budget remain at least the same of S3, they could do better this time with story, but it budget will be even lower, we will have again the same issues that Shenmue 3 had.
 
We have to remember that the core systems for the game are in place so they could spend more time working on story stuff for a Shenmue 4.

However shooting cut-scenes, motion capture is expensive regardless of budget/deployment. They would have to balance this.
 
also Shenmue 4 will take place in another critical part of the story (similar to Shenmue 2), so it will need lots of cutscenes, dialogues, enviroments, battle scenes...

It will be no joke to balance everything.
 
As much as I complained about lack of story, Yu said it himself that Shenmue 3 was more of a personal journey for Ryo and Shenhua. I guess after such a long wait I just wanted to find out more, that's all, without any regard for how the story unfolds. That was pretty shallow of me. I'm sure, like others have said in regards to already having core systems in place etc, Shenmue 4 will be a much bigger game. Kinda like how Shenmue 1 & 2 were vastly different in size/scope.
 
exactly, the problem is to make a bigger game, the budget must remain at least the same of S3.

Story in S4 will suffer A LOT if the budget will be for example just half of S3, despite all the core systems already made.

But to make a real outstanding game that has a fair chance to succeed in current market, we need maybe to double up S3 budget.
But higher costs could send away potential partners...

It's not an ideal situation.
 
We have to remember that the core systems for the game are in place so they could spend more time working on story stuff for a Shenmue 4.

However shooting cut-scenes, motion capture is expensive regardless of budget/deployment. They would have to balance this.
Let’s say they went with in-game cinematics (think the typical unplayable dialogue scenes) or even narrated 2D artwork for most major cutscenes or plot progression. Would people accept that? I would.
 
For example I could not accept that.
I want a real Shenmue experience even if it means less story per game, otherwise what's the point to continue the series?
 
I found the “story” in Shenmue to hinder my experience, so I suppose we all seek a different Shenmue experience. I want to see where this journey takes Ryo. I don’t think Shenmue 3 succeeded in doing that at all. If Yu Suzuki wants to play around with mini games, conversations, etc. perhaps he should focus on creating something more like Animal Crossing.
 
Let’s say they went with in-game cinematics (think the typical unplayable dialogue scenes) or even narrated 2D artwork for most major cutscenes or plot progression. Would people accept that? I would.
I could if it meant a fuller story and led to the saga being finished.

For example I could not accept that.
I want a real Shenmue experience even if it means less story per game, otherwise what's the point to continue the series?
While I'm with you we have to accept the reality that Yu Suzuki may not get the 2 games he needs to finish the story so if a change in the presentation helped give us a overall better game I'd go for it.
 
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