Star Wars

Seriously, the only people focusing on character genders and races are those trying to draw people's eyes away from the film's real problems that the majority are actually complaining about. The reason? they like the movie solely on the fact that they see it as progressive and diverse and that's all they need for the movie to be 'amazing' in their eyes. So to attack the movie is to be "racist", "bigot" etc even if all of your issues with the movie are valid and totally unrelated to an actors identity. Its Ghostbusters (2016) all over again; horrible Ghostbusters movie.. terrible, but apparently we don't like it because "misogyny and vagina"

The real issues with the movie are obvious, so all you hard left progressives should stop trying to muddy the water with identity politics because you love the movie for reasons other than its intrinsic quality based on structure/story etc.. star wars has always had a diverse cast.. so get over yourself.

1) Movie is lore breaking.
--- 1a) Hyperspace kamakazi. If this was possible they would have used it in previous movies, such as the death star.
--- 1b) Force ghosts can now physically Interact with the real world to the point of summoning lightning to destroy things. Why not do that previously eh? Just ask a force ghost to kill off the bad guy.

2) Movie has multiple self contained issues.
--- 2a) Fleet chase. Apparently they couldn't catch the rebel ship because it's smaller and faster, and yet they manage to maintain equal distance indefinitely during the chase.
--- 2b) Holdo, a random new character with no back story appears out of no where and acts illogically and in the most obnoxious way possible. She then doesn't tell anyone her plans even thought there would be no down side to this, not for any clever story-line reason but so they could dedicate a third of the movie to an entirely pointless set piece on a casino planet. Whether that was because Rian Johnston liked the idea of the set piece or whether it was used to push 'politics' is irrelevant.. it's was a pointless story moment.
-- 2c) They go to said Casino planet to find the only hacker in the known universe who can help them; but get arrested just before they can talk to him; but just so happen to find another hacker that has the skills they need in prison. Coincidence is all fine and dandy, but that takes the cake, lazy.. lazy.. lazy.

3) Dropped plot points
--- JJ setup plenty of interesting sub-plots we were looking forward to learning about. Rian Johnston didn't do something 'Brave' or 'Intelligent' dropping them all. He didn't "subvert" expectations. It was just lazy, it allowed him to string a bunch of random scenes together which he thought were cool and was intent on forcing into the movie. By dropping sub plots without having to spend time linking them to any previous movies is lazy lazy lazy..

There is a whole load of further issues in regards to how they handle past characters etc.. but honestly everything I've put above is a small 'slice" from many obvious issues; I can't be bothered to type them all out.

TLJ is a terrible Star Wars movie. And it has nothing to do with diversity and everything to do pushing plot points and ideas that only work if you entirely divorce the movie from whats come before; along with a plot that constantly breaks its own self contained plot points from moment to moment. Force Awakens and Rouge One were both perfectly fine movies (I'd argue Rouge One is one of the best). .

TLJ is awful story telling; it makes the prequels (with all its stilted acting and robotic dialogue) look masterful in comparison. If you like TLJ more power to you; but I won't be coming to you for movie advice, that's for damn sure.
 
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@RiGoRmOrTiS take a chill pill. No where did I say that you cannot criticise a movie for story, techies, without being a misogynist or a racist. If your main complaint is that there's a female or a person of color in th cast though, then yeah. That's what I'm calling out. I didn't like the new Ghostbusters all that much, maybe rate it a 2.5, it was entertaining somewhat but the plot and the badly written dialogue (why can't big studios invest in good writers?) was disappointing. However Leslie Jones revived so much abuse and so many threats she had to go off social media all together. That abuse had nothing to do with the aforementioned faults, and everything to do with the fact that she is a black woman daring to infringe into a territory some insecure little shits wanted to keep as their own little wankfest. This is a real problem.

As for your problems with TLJ, I'd agree with 1b and 2a. As for 2b it was a weak idea carrying too much of the plot line for two long, but Holdo was still alright. They could have made her seem less stupid earlier. 2c didn't care for the casino part, liked del Toros character, he could have just been the main hacker. Hope we get to know more about him later. Did enjoy the racing and the kids finding new heroes, fitting in the lore. 3 yeah, I was waiting for some of the stories to be picked up again. I didn't like Leia floating into space and getting back in. Loved the Island bits, thought it was in SW spirit, and Luke as a grumpy old man was good, Rey also got to grow a bit. And Yoda being Yoda. I still think Solo shouldn't have been murdered in TFA. I didn't care for Snake being killed and the after-dialogues following either. And the love story between Finn and Rose, that scene after the fighting before they ran was cringeworthy and felt out of place. It could have been given time to be matured well into the next film.

All that said, TLJ is still good entertainment, opposed to others here I felt it was like a runner up towards some great finale in the next film rather than the finale itself. Also, agree with @DaMulder, some mixing up of the pace and storylines kept it interesting.
 
I disagree. Insinuating that people who love this film are hard left progressives who only think TLJ is amazing because of diversity is incredibly close-minded. Many of us appreciate that this film actually took risks while expanding on the mythos, and didn't just jerk off OT fan nostalgia like in previous films. Also, I can defend this movie without resorting to "racist" and "bigot". Hold onto your butts...

1a) Why argue logistics and physics in a Flash Gordon inspired universe than simply enjoying the visual spectacle? It’s as ridiculous as RedLetterMedia cracking open their notebooks to analyse the whole Duel of the Fates sequence. This is a Universe where problems like the Kamikaze scene can be explained away in various books and comics by ‘The Death Star shields were too strong’. The Kamikaze scene serves a purpose for Holdo, sacrificing herself in a visually jaw-dropping way, inspiring a cinematic magic that dazzled a kid in my audience to say ‘That’s so cool!’ That's what’s ultimately important. Plus there's an answer in the TLJ book, but who cares?

1b) Force ghosts do interact with their environment. Why didn’t Obi-Wan’s ghost fall through that tree he sat on in ROTJ? Is it not hard to reason that when Obi-Wan said in TESB “If you choose to face Vader you must do it alone, I cannot interfere” that Force ghosts choose not to participate in actual conflicts?

2a) What do you expect to happen? They catch the Resistance within 5 mins and execute them, end-of-film? Even if they could catch them, in a universe where Darth Maul stood mockingly above a dangling Obi-Wan instead of simply chucking his blade at him, is it not hard to think that the moustache twirling First Order prefers watching the Resistance slowly burn their fuel and wallow in their inevitable death so the good guys get the upper-hand? Like a cartoon, Star Wars baddies are proud, and because of it, incompetent. That’s the whole point.

2b) Holdo’s plan is meant to be a surprise twist which this franchise does a lot. I don’t know about you, but I’d find it stupid if every character suddenly looked at the camera and explained their motivations and surprises to the audience. Besides, why should she trust a demoted Poe who just sacrificed the entire bombing fleet? It creates some interesting rivalry among the Rebels which we haven’t really seen before. Also, if you think Rose and Finn going to Canto Bight to stumble upon a Force-sensitive stable boy to inspire the next generation of Force users to fight for the Rebellion is ‘pointless’, then fine. And gimme a break, Star Wars has always been political and commented on real-world affairs: from how democracies get turned into dictatorships to child slavery. This is nothing new.

2c) In TFA, Han and Finn randomly crash-land the Falcon on Starkiller Base, which is an entire PLANET sized sphere, and just-so-happen to bump into Rey at that very same spot. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

3) What exactly did JJ ‘set up’? Rey is told in TFA that her parents are ‘never coming back’ and then in TLJ *shocker* she’s a nobody. That sounds consistent to me. That fans are disappointed in these ‘dropped plots’ is their own fault: they sat in their bedrooms huffing their own farts as they nurtured garbage fan theories about Snoke being Darth Plagueis, Mace Windu or the friggin pear from AOTC, and were disappointed as a result. Like past villains, Snoke is just a plot device, an obstacle Ben overcomes because he cares for Rey, similar to Palps serving that purpose for Vader with Luke in ROTJ or Dooku being a catalyst to start Anakin into darkness in ROTS. That’s it.
 
@Revan I think my main problem with Snoke was that I never felt invested in him as a villain, where did he come from? I didn't care, and that was the bummer. He didn't inspire a sense of danger or fear, lazy lazy lazy set up. I also still feel they could have given Holdo more from the on-set, I liked her character a lot and her camaraderie (in a positive sense) with Leia was fabulous. That was depicted beautifully, this old friendship.

As said, the scenes with the kids; loved it, made me smile and feel a bit sentimental. Thought it fitted SW perfectly, this cycle of resistance and seeds that are planted and grow despite dark times and circumstances.
 
@Araviel Oh I agree, I think Snoke was a massive disappointment visually-speaking considering the various awesome-looking concept art that Lucasfilm were chucking around during TFA's development. He just felt too similar to Palps, could have done something a bit more unique with his design to make him more threatening.
 
Yes, Star Wars was always a diverse place that everyone loved.
Everyone was hyped after The Force Awakens… so, what changed?
IMO:
punkmanced said:
I think TLJ criticisms are pretty simple. Generally speaking, some fans didn't like:
1) The way the story progressed (ie how Rian Johnson seemingly ignored the seeds that JJ Abrams had planted in the Force Awakens)
2) The handling of the OT characters
3) the forced humor
4) identity politics and their growing importance in all things Star Wars

Some of these are completely valid criticisms, while others are more subjective.
Click to expand...
In other words, it’s a divisive film. Some love it; others have complicated feelings towards it (me); and yet others think it’s garbage.

Since @Araviel originally focused on the ‘political’ angle, I’ll elaborate my thoughts a bit: to me it feels like increasingly forced writing meant to haphazardly “tackle” social issues which were never a problem to begin with in Star Wars. Worse, it’s starting to come off as completely cheap, artificial...and just cheesy. This is now in full swing in Solo, where you literally have an angry female droid —that Lando is in love with since he’s now “pansexual”—complaining throughout the entire movie about a lack of equal rights and wanting to start a revolution. I honestly can’t tell if it’s satire at this point. I guess it was meant to be serious since
the droid dies, and it was supposed to be an emotional moment in the film?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In regards to TLJ, Holdo and Rose felt like some of the most forced characters in the entire franchise, the former being condescending and secretive in order to teach someone (ie Poe) a lesson, and the latter having absolutely zero chemistry with her male foil. I’m hyper-condensing both roles, but you get my point. Shame, since Laura Dern was virtually wasted in this film, and Rose came off as little more than a random sidekick with a rather basic moral compass. Bonus points for purposely uglifying a pretty actress (Kelly Marie Tran), and giving an Admiral purple hair and a party gown during a doomsday battle. I don’t know what Rian Johnson was thinking here.

Disney/Lucasfilm has gone on the record as considering diversity its “top priority”…which once again seems to be completely missing the point, especially in Star Wars. Focus on coming up with great, organic characters (and stories) instead, and everything will fall into place nicely, no matter how said characters are envisioned/ what they look like.
(the same can be applied anywhere really)

With that said, we can definitely agree on a few things, for example: Daisy Ridley’s performance was one of the best parts of TFA (a truly fun film with phenomenal replay value); Captain Phasma/ Gwendoline Christine is great in general, though was arguably underused in both films; the idea of the scene with the kids in TLJ was just perfect (but then again…should have probably been reserved for the end of episode 9).

As things stand, I still think the good in TLJ outweighs the bad (the movie is so damn gorgeous), but because the choices made in that film arguably render it a trilogy killer story-wise, I do hope they split Ep. 9 into two films to give JJ Abrams enough breathing room to not only craft a “new” story…but to end it on the right note as well. Who knows if that’s possible.
 
Hello there!


I don't know about you, but the thought of my boy Palps returning and facing off against the next Skywalker generation (i.e. Ben Solo) has left me heavily pregnant.
 
i will definitely watch ep9 in the cinema the day its released, just to see the end and what the big twist is. who knows maybe JJ will save it with the last film?

but i cant say ive really enjoyed this new trilogy. maybe if they aimed it at adults and not kids it could of been better?
 
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