Steam vs Epic Games

9dragons said:
You guys say epic is anti consumer. Fine, but so is steam as well. I find it horrendous from a console games Point of view that are companies out there like valve that force you to install their Service on your pc to play the games. The valve People are in total controll of my Content because I am always connected to their "eyes". This one of many reasons why I hate digital only stuff.

In the console space we are almost there yet too unfortnately, but still at least on the ps4 you can play your games offline, minus the Patches of Course. But it is still possible to some degree to play ofline. In next gen not anymore I am afraid

So in fact I can understand you guys. I distrust steam for the same reasons why you distrust Epic. Sort of.

Bu I would not call Services like steam, where you have absolutely no controll of your Content as consumer friendly.

Unless you consider the extra Features steam offfers as consumer friendly. I have other priorties. I want to play my games always, nontheless if my modem is working or not.
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Valve don’t force anybody to do anything. There are plenty of launchers available and to the best of my knowledge, Steam have never signed an exclusivity deal with any developers to force people onto their platforms. It’s true that a lot of their own games are only available on Steam, but I don’t see how that’s any different to Nintendo keeping Mario games on their own hardware or Microsoft keeping Halo on Xbox.

The reason that Steam is so popular is because it is by far the most complete launcher and offers the best user experience. People choose to play their games through Steam.

I keep seeing people throwing the word ‘monopoly’ around when clearly they have no idea what a monopoly is. A monopoly is when a company is in complete control of the sale of something and are forcing people to use their service because they have no other choice if they want or need that product. Kind of like Epic Games when it come to the sale of Shenmue 3 on PC.

As for the argument that Steam are driving prices up because they pay developers a little less to cover their significantly higher costs of hosting and supporting titles, do any of you really think that DS and YSNet are going to pass on the marginal savings they will make per sale to consumers?
 
reminisce said:
Go to know you support unfair pay and support for Ys Net and the Shenmue saga. At least your agenda is clear. (y)
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Tell me, I hope you're not buying the game on PS4, right ?
Because Sony is taking 30% too from digital sales. And for physical sales, they take 20% (and the retail store takes 30%) leaving 50% to YsNet, while Valve takes 0% on physical sales (despite the game redeeming on Steam). So I'm sure you're not full of shit and you're going to buy it on Epic, am I right ?

Or is your agenda clear too ?
 
tomboz said:
Valve don’t force anybody to do anything. There are plenty of launchers available and to the best of my knowledge, Steam have never signed an exclusivity deal with any developers to force people onto their platforms. It’s true that a lot of their own games are only available on Steam, but I don’t see how that’s any different to Nintendo keeping Mario games on their own hardware or Microsoft keeping Halo on Xbox.

The reason that Steam is so popular is because it is by far the most complete launcher and offers the best user experience. People choose to play their games through Steam.

I keep seeing people throwing the word ‘monopoly’ around when clearly they have no idea what a monopoly is. A monopoly is when a company is in complete control of the sale of something and are forcing people to use their service because they have no other choice if they want or need that product. Kind of like Epic Games when it come to the sale of Shenmue 3 on PC.

As for the argument that Steam are driving prices up because they pay developers a little less to cover their significantly higher costs of hosting and supporting titles, do any of you really think that DS and YSNet are going to pass on the marginal savings they will make per sale to consumers?
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Steam has had exponentially more steam-exclusives than Epic ever has. Why are you being hypocritical?

DigitalDuck said:
I guess you'll be boycotting the PS4 version then, since Sony take the same percentage cut as Steam.
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Sony supports Shenmue's developers better than steam.
Epic supports Shenmue's developers better than steam.
All steam had to do was pay developers their fair share...but steam and valve are greedy...
https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/25/18516039/epic-games-store-exclusives-steam-valve-tim-sweeney
 
reminisce said:
Steam has had exponentially more steam-exclusives than Epic ever has. Why are you being hypocritical?



Sony supports Shenmue's developers better than steam.
Epic supports Shenmue's developers better than steam.
All steam had to do was pay developers their fair share...but steam and valve are greedy...
https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/25/18516039/epic-games-store-exclusives-steam-valve-tim-sweeney
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And Valve paid none of them. Now, are you going to call out Sony's monopoly who make Shenmue developers pay 30% (like Steam) for Digital and 20% for Physical (unlike Steam) and make it exclusive to lock out Xbox One and Switch users ? Or is your agenda too clear ?


Also, just to shut you up:
Backers supports Shenmue's developper than both Sony (who's only job was to put a trailer on their Youtube channel in 4 fuckin years) and Epic (who gave a pocket change money 3 months before release when the game was mostly done).
 
GhostTrick said:
And Valve paid none of them. Now, are you going to call out Sony's monopoly who make Shenmue developers pay 30% (like Steam) for Digital and 20% for Physical (unlike Steam) and make it exclusive to lock out Xbox One and Switch users ? Or is your agenda too clear ?


Also, just to shut you up:
Backers supports Shenmue's developper than both Sony (who's only job was to put a trailer on their Youtube channel in 4 fuckin years) and Epic (who gave a pocket change money 3 months before release when the game was mostly done).
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So the the steam-exclusive developers are just working for nothing, right? Think deeper...

Without Sony's support, who knows if Shenmue III would have happened...and Yu Suzuki-sama presented Shenmue III to Phil and Xbox before even going to Sony, and they turned him down...but Shenmue III will probably still come to all major platforms...
 
reminisce said:
So the the steam-exclusive developers are just working for nothing, right? Think deeper...

Without Sony's support, who knows if Shenmue III would have happened...and Yu Suzuki-sama presented Shenmue III to Phil and Xbox before even going to Sony, and they turned him down...but Shenmue III will probably still come to all major platforms...
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Also, there's no "steam exclusive developers". Developpers choose to use Steam because that's the most solid backend for games. You want to integrate achievements ? leaderboards ? mods ? cloud saves ? controller support ? Only Steam does it.


Sony's support ? All Sony did was to say to Yu Suzuki "You can show the game on our stage at E3". How generous of them. It's not like they gave the same spot to many indies. There's two things that made Shenmue III happened:
Shibuya Production
Kickstarter
 
GhostTrick Not quite correct. I use Steam once in the while to Play games that are not available for playstation. And no I did not know that there might a hidden Setting that allows to Play your games offline. by Default Settings playing offline is not possible.
 
9dragons said:
GhostTrick Not quite correct. I use Steam once in the while to Play games that are not available for playstation. And no I did not know that there might a hidden Setting that allows to Play your games offline. by Default Settings playing offline is not possible.
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Yes it is. Just be offline. And there's a prompt that'll open and tell you that:

xsteam-offline-header.jpg.pagespeed.gp+jp+jw+pj+ws+js+rj+rp+rw+ri+cp+md.ic.HlpmmSthUU.jpg


And if you're online and want to go offline:
unknown.png


talking about "hidden"
 
GhostTrick said:
Also, there's no "steam exclusive developers". Developpers choose to use Steam because that's the most solid backend for games. You want to integrate achievements ? leaderboards ? mods ? cloud saves ? controller support ? Only Steam does it.


Sony's support ? All Sony did was to say to Yu Suzuki "You can show the game on our stage at E3". How generous of them. It's not like they gave the same spot to many indies. There's two things that made Shenmue III happened:
Shibuya Production
Kickstarter
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Disinformation. There is controller support, and the other features are on the roadmap:
https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-...p-includes-achievements-cloud-saves-and-more/

Also, you really think developers are exclusive to steam for nothing? Again, think deeper...
 
I just got a weird error Code when something wrong with the net, or the steam Client was not able to open at all. Never mind then steam is just faulty on my pc. Thanks for answer.
 
reminisce said:
Disinformation. There is controller support, and the other features are on the roadmap:
https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-...p-includes-achievements-cloud-saves-and-more/

Also, you really think developers are exclusive to steam for nothing? Again, think deeper...
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reminisce said:
Disinformation. There is controller support, and the other features are on the roadmap:
https://www.pcgamer.com/epic-games-...p-includes-achievements-cloud-saves-and-more/

Also, you really think developers are exclusive to steam for nothing? Again, think deeper...
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"Think deeper" You have barely any knowledge on the PC market. I think deeper indeed. Only in your console warrior mind that there's the notion that people pay for "exclusives". What you call Steam exclusives are game using the Steam backend. It's like saying Microsoft is paying every devs to not make Linux games. It doesn't make sense.

Also, other features on the road map ? Where's the TV mode ? Cloud saves were planned for February. Then May. Now July. That roadmap is straight out Epic's ass and has literally no value.

And yes, there is controller support... done through Xinput. Which means your Dualshock 4 wont work, unless you make some work arounds, unlike Steam which supports it natively for all its features (touchpad and gyro sensor). And that means controller support only for Xbox controllers and only in the game. If I want to use an overlay, I cant. If I want to open my friendlist or do the usual stuff with the controller, I cant.

But it was nice educating you.
 
GhostTrick said:
and Epic (who gave a pocket change money 3 months before release
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Really detest all this infighting, especially when efforts could be directed elsewhere, but to be fair we don’t know the figures behind the Epic deal, so to call it “pocket change” is somewhat disingenuous.
 
reminisce said:
Go to know you support unfair pay and support for Ys Net and the Shenmue saga. At least your agenda is clear. (y)
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  1. Go here and see the complaints. https://steamcommunity.com/app/878670/discussions/
  2. Go to Kickstarted page and read the complaints.
  3. I want to play Shenmue I & II on the same client... Not keeping them separated and have a need for 2 clients...
Epic focus on Developers while Steam Focus on consumers.
4)3141
 
The delay and the epic Money came along pretty close. Might be coinsidence, but it could also mean that the dev ran out of Money and the upcoming Epic deal gave them the Chance to improve to game. So the amount might not be that small.

if that is the case some Folks might wonder why the e3 footage Looks so unpolished then. A good question. But maybe there was no time to improve the e3 footage because they Money came in shortly after the E3.

Or there is nothing behind it and the delay has nothing to do witht the Epic deal. We might never learn about the truth. .
 
GhostTrick said:
"Think deeper" You have barely any knowledge on the PC market. I think deeper indeed. Only in your console warrior mind that there's the notion that people pay for "exclusives". What you call Steam exclusives are game using the Steam backend. It's like saying Microsoft is paying every devs to not make Linux games. It doesn't make sense.

Also, other features on the road map ? Where's the TV mode ? Cloud saves were planned for February. Then May. Now July. That roadmap is straight out Epic's ass and has literally no value.

And yes, there is controller support... done through Xinput. Which means your Dualshock 4 wont work, unless you make some work arounds, unlike Steam which supports it natively for all its features (touchpad and gyro sensor). And that means controller support only for Xbox controllers and only in the game. If I want to use an overlay, I cant. If I want to open my friendlist or do the usual stuff with the controller, I cant.

But it was nice educating you.
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Why do you think most PC developers have to use steam's backend, genius?

Again, reread the Epic roadmap... https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap

And again, you invested in a kickstarter with no guarantees, not even a Shenmue III guarantee...but if you want to continue cursing go ahead...
 
Epic just giving them free promotion, I doubt they gave Shenmue a large sum of money. That money was paid already directly to Deep Silver Not toward Shenmue.
 
Epic's Road Map doesnt mean a damn thing. They coudnt even fufill their April or May goals. Its totally useless.

Steam doesnt have exclusive games either besides Valve's games. Developers are free to put their product on any service free of charge, and can charge anything they want or make it free and still be on Steam. Valve does not care. They even allow some developers to sell off site Steam Keys without having to pay with 30% fee, and still allow them to use their backends.

Offline mode is not hidden on Steam. Its literally no more than 2 button clicks. Go to menu, click offline mode. Or start Steam offline, click Use Offline mode.

Valve have also never bought or paid for any game to come exclusively to Steam nor paid to keep a game off another service. Valve believes in a truly open platform where users have choice to play where and how they want. They do not even havr exclusive VR games, unlike Oculus, Valve allows all their VR Games on other companies hardware. Oculus has exclusive games where you are forced to use a Oculus Rift. Valve arent forcing anyone to play their games with their new Valve Index.

Epic is literally locking away software and forcing people to use their service (which has way less features). Valve does not do this. What Epic is doing is exactly how monopolies start and it IS anti competitive and anti consumer.

People can be fine with playing on Epic. Okay, great but to dismiss other users complaints and criticisms and say "its just a launcher!" is being disingenious and its complete BS. You are not helping anything by handwaving the concerns of users who care about the only open platform for games that exists. If people refuse to buy Shenmue 3 because of it, so be it. I mean, the way the epic deal works anyway is it pays money outright upfront to ths publisher and developer.

Also the people complaining arent a minority at all.
 
Ren said:
Epic just giving them free promotion, I doubt they gave Shenmue a large sum of money. That money was paid already directly to Deep Silver Not toward Shenmue.
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Again, there’s no way of knowing this. It’s all conjecture so we can’t make any definitive statements about the Epic deal.

And it seems Epic now supports offline play, so that table above needs updated.

I am in no way taking sides here. Just don’t like to see misinformation in order to back up a point.
 
reminisce said:
Why do you think most PC developers have to use steam's backend, genius?

Again, reread the Epic roadmap... https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap

And again, you invested in a kickstarter with no guarantees, not even a Shenmue III guarantee...but if you want to continue cursing go ahead...
Click to expand...


Because it's the only competent one, genius.
What do you use if you want to implement achievements ? Epic's backend ? Oh wait, according to their roadmap they delayed multiple times, genius, it's coming in more than 6 months. MAYBE.

Again, I invested in a kickstarter with no guarantees. That kickstarter delivered though. They delivered a voucher for fangamer of 310 dollars (the amount I paid). I then ordered a Steam copy of Shenmue III. You would know that if you ever studied law in your life, genius.
 
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