Steam vs Epic Games

reminisce said:
Guess you either get it or you don’t...especially if you’re not the developers taking the pay cut...

Imagine in the future when you have to download Shenmue IV on epicgames.com instead of steampowered.com omg the travesty haha

Thanks for the comedy...take care all ✌
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Don't worry, it'll be only on Stadia. And I'll be glad to shit on you when you'll be whining.
 
GhostTrick said:
Just ignore him. That's a console warrior and a waste of time. Someone saying "Yu Suzuki-sama" should already be a huge warning when it comes to fanboyism.
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I find his ability to remain ignorant in the face of such overwhelming evidence to be quite fascinating, actually. His ridiculous posts have certainly made my commute a lot more enjoyable!
 
reminisce, I have to assume you're trolling at this point. You just keep saying the same thing over and over in the face of what is being presented to you. Steam is not a monopoly. It is just the most popular and most widely used platform on PC, and there's good reason for it; It's a good platform.

Developers/publishers can launch their games on GOG, UPlay, Origin, Humble Store, GMG, many other third party sellers, and I think there's also the twitch platform that I haven't used, and there's also itch.io..... Yeah, PC is a pretty open platform and EPIC is trying to change that. It's not good, and thus why there is a pushback against Epic. Epic is using their money to change PC gaming for the worse, evidenced by the inability to buy Shenmue 3 anywhere except on Epic store.
 
Thomasina said:
reminisce, I have to assume you're trolling at this point. You just keep saying the same thing over and over in the face of what is being presented to you. Steam is not a monopoly. It is just the most popular and most widely used platform on PC, and there's good reason for it; It's a good platform.

Developers/publishers can launch their games on GOG, UPlay, Origin, Humble Store, GMG, many other third party sellers, and I think there's also the twitch platform that I haven't used, and there's also itch.io..... Yeah, PC is a pretty open platform and EPIC is trying to change that. It's not good, and thus why there is a pushback against Epic. Epic is using their money to change PC gaming for the worse, evidenced by the inability to buy Shenmue 3 anywhere except on Epic store.
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Nope. Epic is using their money to help developers get a fair share of revenue they are currently forced to give away due to Steam’s monopoly in PC game distribution, which will ultimately create more equity and resources for developers, better games and value for players, and ultimately greater justice for all in the interactive arts.
 
GhostTrick said:
Just ignore him. That's a console warrior and a waste of time. Someone saying "Yu Suzuki-sama" should already be a huge warning when it comes to fanboyism.
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YOU.. ARE.. ON... THE SHENMUE-DOJO......And you are making fun of "muh-fanboyism." Please man..
 
GhostTrick said:
Just ignore him. That's a console warrior and a waste of time. Someone saying "Yu Suzuki-sama" should already be a huge warning when it comes to fanboyism.
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Maybe you should create an massive epic game that chronicles the Epic v. Steam War...it would be awesome right? You seem to only care about this issue.
 
reminisce said:
Nope. Epic is using their money to help developers get a fair share of revenue they are currently forced to give away due to Steam’s monopoly in PC game distribution, which will ultimately create more equity and resources for developers, better games and value for players, and ultimately greater justice for all in the interactive arts.
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The problem with Monopoly is that most people invent their own house rules that make the game drag on too long. Stuff like not being allowed to buy properties the first time around, earning double money for landing on Go rather than just passing it, all fees paid going to Free Parking, etc. - none of these exist in the original game, and they all lengthen the game.

In addition, you're supposed to auction properties if someone lands on an unowned property and chooses not to buy it. This is almost never done in family games and is the single biggest factor to making it stupidly long and drawn-out.

Under the original rules, it's actually a fairly fast-paced game that's over in less than an hour, with a clear winner established only shortly before the end without it just slowly fizzling out as it does with the house rules added.
 
I said I was done but I just want to point out that either @reminisce is either being intentionally disingenuous or is just completely ignorant/misinformed.

He keeps saying it's about the 30% cut and saying that Valve have a monopoly and Epic's deals are helping revive the gaming medium. That's not true. The deals are about keeping games off of competitors stores, fullstop. Publishers take the money, because, well, who doesn't like money? In fact to prove this point the developers of the highly anticipated game

Untitled Goose Game

have chosen to take Epic up on their exclusivity deal. The kicker? They planned to launch their game on itch.io, a platform that doesn't take ANY money from the sales of games on its store. Devs see 100% of the profit that the consumer chooses to give them.

Why then would they go to Epic Store Exclusively? Because Epic offers them MILLIONS of dollars up front in exchange for it. That's not making PC Gaming better. It's being anti competitive a-holes.


But not every company will take the money, every time. Sometimes they will see the benefits of an open platform instead of accepting short term gains.

As such that makes @9dragons point not entirely accurate either. We learned just today regarding Samurai Showdown that in December 2018 the CEO of SNK stated that "some PC download platform wanted an exclusive release on the condition of a pre-order of hundreds of thousands, " (hmm. wonder what platform that was!) but SNK's CEO rejected the offer.

If you extrapolate the numbers based on pre-order price with number of copies sold, you'll come close to $5.3 million for every 100,000 copies sold or $10.6 million for every 200,000 copies sold.

But SNK rejected this deal, deciding to go multiplatform instead. I thought business would always accept more money no matter what? Apparently not!

I wonder why...

I doubt people who defend anti-consumer and anti-competitive behaviours would get it though.
 
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ShenmueTree said:
I said I was done but I just want to point out that either @reminisce is either being intentionally disingenuous or is just completely ignorant/misinformed.

He keeps saying it's about the 30% cut and saying that Valve have a monopoly and Epic's deals are helping revive the gaming medium. That's not true. The deals are about keeping games off of competitors stores, fullstop. Publishers take the money, because, well, who doesn't like money? In fact to prove this point the developers of the highly anticipated game

Untitled Goose Game

have chosen to take Epic up on their exclusivity deal. The kicker? They planned to launch their game on itch.io, a platform that doesn't take ANY money from the sales of games on its store. Devs see 100% of the profit that the consumer chooses to give them.

Why then would they go to Epic Store Exclusively? Because Epic offers them MILLIONS of dollars up front in exchange for it. That's not making PC Gaming better. It's being anti competitive a-holes.


But not every company will take the money, every time. Sometimes they will see the benefits of an open platform instead of accepting short term gains.

As such that makes @9dragons point not entirely accurate either. We learned just today regarding Samurai Showdown that in December 2018 the CEO of SNK stated that "some PC download platform wanted an exclusive release on the condition of a pre-order of hundreds of thousands, " (hmm. wonder what platform that was!) but SNK's CEO rejected the offer.

If you extrapolate the numbers based on pre-order price with number of copies sold, you'll come close to $5.3 million for every 100,000 copies sold or $10.6 million for every 200,000 copies sold.

But SNK rejected this deal, deciding to go multiplatform instead. I thought business would always accept more money no matter what? Apparently not!

I wonder why...

I doubt people who defend anti-consumer and anti-competitive behaviours would get it though.
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Again, you’re either misinformed or intentionally regurgitating disinformation to hurt Ys Net and the Shenmue saga.

Please see this:

If Valve is so saintly, why haven’t they matched the payouts to developers?
 
I'm not a fan of Epic either and have switched my pledge to PS4 because of that, however I believe/hope that whatever money they gave is something the YSNet team put aside for the sequels. If having to use Epic means I will one day see Shenmue 4, I would gladly use Epic every day. The question still remains who got what part of the Epic money, is it the publisher Deep Silver or the dev team Ys Net, and is the money going to go towards a big fat paycheck or fund the development of sequels?
 
reminisce said:
Again, you’re either misinformed or intentionally regurgitating disinformation to hurt Ys Net and the Shenmue saga.

Please see this:

If Valve is so saintly, why haven’t they matched the payouts to developers?
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i am not misinformed nor am I trying to hurt Shenmue or YSNet, it's the exact opposite, as I see how this entire fiasco will end up damaging the sales of Shenmue and hurt YSnet as a developer in the end, and it's the people who are dismissing complaints that fail to see how close to reality it is, we can ALREADY see the damage that it has caused in just these few days since the announcement, but apparently your ability to project misinformation knows no bounds.

Also Tim Sweeny straight up, literally said that he was going to stop grabbing up games that were previously available on Steam, and then he made an excuse when he did it several times after. Stop defending him. He is a liar. Also good job ignoring the part where the developers of Untitled Goose Game took Epic's deal even when they were not in danger of having to see loss of revenue from any fees. But yeah, it's all about that 30% cut. No it's not.

Continue to troll though. Whatever.

shibeouya said:
I'm not a fan of Epic either and have switched my pledge to PS4 because of that, however I believe/hope that whatever money they gave is something the YSNet team put aside for the sequels. If having to use Epic means I will one day see Shenmue 4, I would gladly use Epic every day. The question still remains who got what part of the Epic money, is it the publisher Deep Silver or the dev team Ys Net, and is the money going to go towards a big fat paycheck or fund the development of sequels?
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Most people just want to be refunded, or for Deep Silver to grant them a Steam key, which again, is 100% free, with no cost to the publisher when they grant offsite keys. Phoenix Point allows this. But Deep Silver/YSNet refuse to. The criticisms will continue until Epic stop being anti competitive shits.
 
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ShenmueTree said:
i am not misinformed nor am I trying to hurt Shenmue or YSNet, it's the exact opposite, as I see how this entire fiasco will end up damaging the sales of Shenmue and hurt YSnet as a developer in the end, and it's the people who are dismissing complaints that fail to see how close to reality it is, we can ALREADY see the damage that it has caused in just these few days since the announcement, but apparently your ability to project misinformation knows no bounds.

Also Tim Sweeny straight up, literally said that he was going to stop removing games that were previously available on Steam, and then he made an excuse when he did it several times after. Stop defending him. He is a liar. Also good job ignoring the part where the developers of Untitled Goose Game took Epic's deal even when they were not in danger of having to see loss of revenue from any fees. But yeah, it's all about that 30% cut. No it's not.

Continue to troll though. Whatever.

Most people just want to be refunded, or for Deep Silver to grant them a Steam key, which again, is 100% free, with no cost to the publisher when they grant offsite keys. Phoenix Point allows this. But Deep Silver/YSNet refuse to. The criticisms will continue until Epic stop being anti competitive shits.
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Guess you know more than the actual developers...



Take care...
 
reminisce said:
Again, you’re either misinformed or intentionally regurgitating disinformation to hurt Ys Net and the Shenmue saga.

Please see this:

If Valve is so saintly, why haven’t they matched the payouts to developers?
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That’s like asking why high street stores haven’t lowered their prices to match online stores. Valve have higher overheads due to having a significantly higher active user base and a much larger games library. They employee more people and spend more on server space and hosting costs.

Epic can only afford to offer developers a higher cut because they cut back in these areas. They have a smaller staff working on improving the service (despite it being nowhere near as good for users) and a fraction of the number of downloads meaning that significantly less bandwidth and server space are required.

Valve are charging developers the industry standard. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all take the same cut for digital sales and developers get even less when it comes to physical sales on console. Why would they reduce their profit because an inferior service that nobody likes effectively tried to blackmail them into doing so?

I’m curious to know. If you ran a store and one of your competitors started selling your most popular product at a significantly lower price, would you lower your prices even if it meant that you might risk actually losing money on sales and even if your customers were happy and willing to pay the higher, original price that you were charging because they liked your store and the service you provided them?
 
tomboz said:
That’s like asking why high street stores haven’t lowered their prices to match online stores. Valve have higher overheads due to having a significantly higher active user base and a much larger games library. They employee more people and spend more on server space and hosting costs.

Epic can only afford to offer developers a higher cut because they cut back in these areas. They have a smaller staff working on improving the service (despite it being nowhere near as good for users) and a fraction of the number of downloads meaning that significantly less bandwidth and server space are required.

Valve are charging developers the industry standard. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all take the same cut for digital sales and developers get even less when it comes to physical sales on console. Why would they reduce their profit because an inferior service that nobody likes effectively tried to blackmail them into doing so?

I’m curious to know. If you ran a store and one of your competitors started selling your most popular product at a significantly lower price, would you lower your prices even if it meant that you might risk actually losing money on sales and even if your customers were happy and willing to pay the higher, original price that you were charging because they liked your store and the service you provided them?
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Please see this:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2019-why-going-epic-store-exclusive-was-the-rig/1100-6467769/


Take care...
 
reminisce said:
Guess you know more than the actual developers...



Take care...
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What did they say that disputes anything I said? I already read that tweet. Hell, it's part of the basis of my argument! They're doing exclusivity in exchange for more money (yes, developers will see a benefit in terms of cash, I never denied this!) than they would get from itcho.io and other platforms. You're changing goal posts as you said it's about 30% fee (itcho.io doesn't have any fee) and making PC a gaming platform, which isn't true. And again you entirely ignored the fact that Tim Sweeny lied.

Keep on troll'n though.
 
ShenmueTree said:
What did they say that disputes anything I said? I already read that tweet. Hell, it's part of the basis of my argument! They're doing exclusivity in exchange for more money (yes, developers will see a benefit in terms of cash, I never denied this!) than they would get from itcho.io and other platforms. You're changing goal posts as you said it's about 30% fee and making PC a gaming platform, which isn't true.

Keep troll'n though.
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Think deeper...and take care...
 
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