SuperEyePatchWolf: "Shenmue III is a terrible game and I've wasted my life"

[Thomasina]

I think most of his criticisms are spot on but it's nothing new that hasn't been said here a thousand times.

This is a common dismissal on this board. "Same old tune, he's not saying anything new" and it's so annoying to see so regularly (not that you're dismissing his criticisms). To me, the more people that recognize and agree with the flaws, then I think the more likely we are to see them fixed. The majority of people who play Shenmue 3 agree on what doesn't work, and what hurts this iteration and, hopefully is corrected in Shenmue 4. I want 1000 people to say it. The more the better. So what if his review is 8 months "late". Please, people keep the reviews coming for years to come. When someone stumbles across this game 5 years from now and they have the same complaints, I want them to talk about it.

I don't think any good comes from diehards telling other fans to leave or walk away because they didn't like S3. It shouldn't be a competition, but it seems to be for some people. I like being a fan of some things, but I like to keep myself in check so that I don't become a fanboy. I think there's a big difference between the two.

 

[LemonHaze]

This is a common dismissal on this board. "Same old tune, he's not saying anything new" and it's so annoying to see so regularly (not that you're dismissing his criticisms). To me, the more people that recognize and agree with the flaws, then I think the more likely we are to see them fixed. The majority of people who play Shenmue 3 agree on what doesn't work, and what hurts this iteration and, hopefully is corrected in Shenmue 4. I want 1000 people to say it. The more the better. So what if his review is 8 months "late". Please, people keep the reviews coming for years to come. When someone stumbles across this game 5 years from now and they have the same complaints, I want them to talk about it.

I don't think any good comes from diehards telling other fans to leave or walk away because they didn't like S3. It shouldn't be a competition, but it seems to be for some people. I like being a fan of some things, but I like to keep myself in check so that I don't become a fanboy. I think there's a big difference between the two.

It seems like you understood the message of Shenmue III - "patience". Who knows, maybe that same message is the sole reason for the 'flaws', we'll only find out when the story concludes!

 

[iknifaugood]

Saying many fans is a little presumptuous given the user reviews across a decent number of online stores.

Some fans, yes 100% Many suggests a majority and that doesn't seem to be the case.

I certainly don't use "many" to suggest a majority; I'd venture to guess it's more than "some" but fewer than "most".

I had a problem with the alternative ending. I'm not sure it's "legal" for Ryo to ever land a hit on Lan Di at these points of the story, it has been noted numerous times that he's considerably stronger than Ryo and Ryo is currently on a quest of massive character development, spread throughout the individual games and to me, it's a nice fanfic, sure, but I can't see any of this being anything like what Yu Suzuki has envisioned in the series.

Shenmue parallels a lot with western pop culture and obviously Japanese cinematography/story design and I can't see Ryo ever hitting Lan Di at this point in the story (yes, even though Ryo has learned all of these special moves all the way from Shenmue I to Shenmue III, he has a lot more going on with his character which needs to be addressed, notably the stuff Xiuying advises).
It's a cheap way to provide 'fan service' in my opinion, and I have no doubts that this was considered during development, but I don't think it's the right time for that.

Another problem which I've stated a handful of times elsewhere is that we really cannot truly judge the Shenmue story, because it isn't over and we definitely don't really have any concrete theories as to what the conclusion looks like in this saga, so everything is up for debate sure, but I can't say I can look at Shenmue III and instantly come to some conclusion that it isn't necessary for the overall story: we just don't know yet.

His ending doesn't fit (he even mentions that it's not "good" per se), it's more of a thought experiment given the constraints he places on himself (he can't change anything except basically the final cutscene in the throne room) to add something where he felt there was nothing. As I've said before, I don't think the game was meant to end where it did; I don't care that Ryo didn't land a hit or whatever--I care that the game ends with him on his way to relive the exact same story beat. In Empire Strikes Back, no one complains that Luke doesn't land a hit on Vader but that's partially because there's a reasonable chance of him beating him in the next fight: not so with Shenmue.

We obviously don't know for sure what will happen in the story but we can make reasonable assumptions given how far we are and can criticize S3 for not moving us farther.

To me, the more people that recognize and agree with the flaws, then I think the more likely we are to see them fixed.

Totally agree. The Plinkett reviews of the Star Wars prequels are longer than the actual movies, but they serve to illustrate what's wrong with them on every level as well as what potentially is wrong with Star Wars as a franchise going forward. I don't think they are somehow worth less because they came out 10 years after the fact.

(EDIT) I see both sides. I can totally understand not wanting to focus on the negatives because that may result in a permanent end to the series, but it's worth considering what state the series would continue in if those negatives remain unaddressed. SEW obviously doesn't care to continue the series in its current state but it would be interesting to see if he would come back around if S4 were a marked improvement.

 

[spud1897]

This is a common dismissal on this board. "Same old tune, he's not saying anything new" and it's so annoying to see so regularly (not that you're dismissing his criticisms). To me, the more people that recognize and agree with the flaws, then I think the more likely we are to see them fixed. The majority of people who play Shenmue 3 agree on what doesn't work, and what hurts this iteration and, hopefully is corrected in Shenmue 4. I want 1000 people to say it. The more the better. So what if his review is 8 months "late". Please, people keep the reviews coming for years to come. When someone stumbles across this game 5 years from now and they have the same complaints, I want them to talk about it.

I don't think any good comes from diehards telling other fans to leave or walk away because they didn't like S3. It shouldn't be a competition, but it seems to be for some people. I like being a fan of some things, but I like to keep myself in check so that I don't become a fanboy. I think there's a big difference between the two.

But despite flaws it doesn't mean people can't enjoy the game. There's also that to factor in.

 

[LemonHaze]

We obviously don't know for sure what will happen in the story but we can make reasonable assumptions given how far we are and can criticize S3 for not moving us farther.

Perhaps the 'not moving us farther' is intentional, though? Ryo is told numerous times that he needs "patience.".

 

[iknifaugood]

Perhaps the 'not moving us farther' is intentional, though? Ryo is told numerous times that he needs "patience.".

He's told that in S2 as well. Would it be a problem for you if in S4, he's told he needs to learn patience and spends the whole game getting to the Cliff Temple only to get there and lose to Lan Di again at the end? At what point do the needs of the story and pacing take precedence? Clearly SEW and many other fans have reached that point.

 

[Sonoshee]

He's told that in S2 as well. Would it be a problem for you if in S4, he's told he needs to learn patience and spends the whole game getting to the Cliff Temple only to get there and lose to Lan Di again at the end? At what point do the needs of the story and pacing take precedence? Clearly SEW and many other fans have reached that point.

It's already been confirmed by Yu that Ryo does not get his revenge on Lan Di anyway. So, potentially Ryo will lose to him again (we don't know in what circumstances they'll next meet).

I'm sure Shenmue 3 will make more sense overall when we finally get closure on the series.
It created more questions than answers, but we got that with the first two games anyway.

With 4 and 5, I think pacing will have to step up a bit as the story is only 40-50% complete. Shenmue 3 was always going to expand "inward" not "outward", so it was going to be a much smaller, more personal game.

 

[LemonHaze]

He's told that in S2 as well. Would it be a problem for you if in S4, he's told he needs to learn patience and spends the whole game getting to the Cliff Temple only to get there and lose to Lan Di again at the end? At what point do the needs of the story and pacing take precedence? Clearly SEW and many other fans have reached that point.

Well this is exactly the point: you can't actually properly criticise half of these things, because we just don't have enough context. My point regarding Ryo being told he needs "patience" is obviously from Shenmue II, with Xiuying. And from Shenmue II to Shenmue III, not that much time has passed...

 

[Vasid]

I think the people who are really upset by this video should keep in mind that even on a negative video like this it's likely to draw attention and, yes, even sales of Shenmue 3. People will want to decide for themselves, people will want to see if they feel what the reviewer felt, and yes some people will even want to see what went wrong.

That's just how videos like this work, it keeps interest in Shenmue III well past it's launch date. Yeah, you can say it sullies Shenmue III's name, but frankly that was already done in mass at launch. This video isn't from a place of malice, it's just a fan expressing his frustration.

Another thing to think about is videos like this sometimes spawn response videos, maybe someone who thoroughly loved Shenmue III could create a response that could get just as popular. Either way keep in mind the old adage "Any press is good press", doubly true in the video game world because if people aren't talking about the game then it's dead.

 

[Thomasina]

It seems like you understood the message of Shenmue III - "patience". Who knows, maybe that same message is the sole reason for the 'flaws', we'll only find out when the story concludes!

No. I have absolutely no issue with Shenmue 3 being judged for what it is. I don't need to wait 20 years to determine if Shenmue 3 was a good game or not. It's out right now, which means I can play it and judge it right now.

But despite flaws it doesn't mean people can't enjoy the game. There's also that to factor in.

I enjoy lots of crappy games. There's elements of S3 I enjoyed, but there's lots I hated. However, I think there's aspects of S3 that aren't enjoyable to anyone. If you told me you loved trading and exchanging lamps, or collecting fire hydrant capsule toys, I just wouldn't believe you.

Perhaps the 'not moving us farther' is intentional, though? Ryo is told numerous times that he needs "patience.".

I think you're reaching a little bit too deep here. Ultimately Shenmue 3 is a game. There are games that aren't meant to be fun, but they can be challenging or compelling or enjoyable in some way. I doubt Suzuki wanted to make a game that just drags on and doesn't go anywhere to teach us all some kind of lesson. The lesson will ultimately come from the story telling, not by meandering in Bailu village with no direction.

Nobody's in a position to put out a game and tell players they have to wait for the conclusion, that may never come, before they can judge the work done. Each game is it's own game and it's own experience. Each game needs to tell it's own story and wrap itself up in some way that can be enjoyable on its own. Nobody's going to wait for all 6 or 7 games before they decide if they liked Shenmue 3 or not.

 

[spud1897]

I enjoy lots of crappy games. There's elements of S3 I enjoyed, but there's lots I hated. However, I think there's aspects of S3 that aren't enjoyable to anyone. If you told me you loved trading and exchanging lamps, or collecting fire hydrant capsule toys, I just wouldn't believe you.

You can believe what you like. I was quite happy collecting some of the capsule toys, the boat sets were good fun as were the Shenmue 1 and 2 ones. However those damn car ones..... well let's say I probably wasted 3-4 hours on them! I engaged in the exchanges for scrolls because I wanted the trophy for it. I'd say tedious and needs refinement, the rest of the time I rinsed tokens for jewels and sold herbs = £££££ or $$$$$ (no idea where you are so went for both).

Fact remains someone can enjoy anything, even something the majority of us find tedious and boring. Not one view on it is more valid than the other, just some hold more popular opinion than others. E.g story in Shenmue III needs way more development, popular opinion. But I'm sure you've seen, as have I, a small minority who would say the story they got was just fine. They would be going against the grain but it doesn't mean it's invalid or unbelievable. Struggling to understand why/the viewpoint would be more appropriate.

 

[Sonoshee]

However, I think there's aspects of S3 that aren't enjoyable to anyone. If you told me you loved trading and exchanging lamps, or collecting fire hydrant capsule toys, I just wouldn't believe you.

That's like saying because I hate tuna, so does everyone else.

 

[LemonHaze]

No. I have absolutely no issue with Shenmue 3 being judged for what it is. I don't need to wait 20 years to determine if Shenmue 3 was a good game or not. It's out right now, which means I can play it and judge it right now.

I think you're reaching a little bit too deep here. Ultimately Shenmue 3 is a game. There are games that aren't meant to be fun, but they can be challenging or compelling or enjoyable in some way. I doubt Suzuki wanted to make a game that just drags on and doesn't go anywhere to teach us all some kind of lesson. The lesson will ultimately come from the story telling, not by meandering in Bailu village with no direction.

I think you're confusing criticising Shenmue III as a standalone game and criticising Shenmue III as an entry in the Shenmue series and I think this is a very simplistic way of looking at Shenmue III, and surely you should know that. How can you decide the relevance/importance of an entry into the series, if we do not know the full story? Shenmue III clearly is trying to convey a message of patience, which is exemplified by the mini-games (especially with their history).

 

[LemonHaze]

The lesson will ultimately come from the story telling, not by meandering in Bailu village with no direction.

Right and this is my exact point. Ryo is told by Xiuying in Shenmue II that he needs to practice patience and in Shenmue III, the Grandmaster also says something along these lines, that he simply cannot just teach him the move. The story telling of Shenmue III, is in my eyes, trying to convey this "patience" message and the whole "nothing moved farther" (your words; not mine) is simply playing right into this idea. Think about it. Ryo leaves his hometown in Shenmue I, Ryo goes to Hong Kong in Shenmue II, Ryo goes to China in Shenmue III. I can't imagine any rational thought that would see "Ryo going to China" as being irrelvant and unnecessary to the overall story, especially given the fact that the whole story is still, not complete.

 

[BruceWayne911]

Even though Shenmue 3 is a entry into the Shenmue series you can absolutely judge on it's own merits as a game. IMO it's not fair to compare Shenmue 3 to the prior two games. Shenmue 1&2 had full financial backing and a full development team behind them. Shenmue 3 had the luxury of none of those options.

 

[LemonHaze]

Even though Shenmue 3 is a entry into the Shenmue series you can absolutely judge on it's own merits as a game. IMO it's not fair to compare Shenmue 3 to the prior two games. Shenmue 1&2 had full financial backing and a full development team behind them. Shenmue 3 had the luxury of none of those options.

Yeah, that's why I said that @Thomasina is confusing criticising Shenmue III as a standalone game and criticising it in its placement in the series (which is what SuperEyePatchWolf is doing).

 

[Suzaku]

Let's not start the fake fans stuff.

I understand the frustration but I'm drawing a line in the sand over that one, that stuff isn't on.

Just because he didn't like 3 doesn't mean he didn't like 1 and 2. And because someone likes 3 doesn't mean they will hate 1 and 2.

That said it's also easier to be vocal over negatives but even the title raised my eyes. Wasted your life over a game... I'd understand it if it were a career choice but a game... come on

I want to clarify this, I'm not calling these people fake fans just because they don't like Shenmue 3 (that would be really childish), but because these people are actively damaging the series by spreading negativity everywhere.

In this case maybe even for personal gain (since with more than 800k followers, a certain amount of money is involved...).

I don't like this either since I think we should all be united under the same flag, but reality seems different, and I think we should instead draw a line here and don't give these people any change to gain more power (example more clicks, validate their opinions etc.), no instead we should treat them like the trolls they are.

 

[BruceWayne911]

I want to clarify this, I'm not calling these people fake fans just because they don't like Shenmue 3 (that would be really childish), but because these people are actively damaging the series by spreading negativity everywhere.

In this case maybe even for personal gain (since with more than 800k followers, a certain amount of money is involved...).

I don't like this either since I think we should all be united under the same flag, but reality seems different, and I think we should instead draw a line here and don't give these people any change to gain more power (example more clicks, validate their opinions etc.), no instead we should treat them like the trolls they are.

People speak positively and negatively about video games all the time. Even though Shenmue is a struggling series and we all want to see the conclusion doesn't mean it gets a pass. If you like the game be vocal. If you dont like the game be vocal.

I'm right along with you this is negative press for Shenmue 3 but its par for the course. Just like if everybody loved Shenmue 3 we would be happy and celebrating. All we can do at this point is hope Yu Suzuki and his team hear the criticism and push to make Shennue 4 a all around better experience.

 

[spud1897]

I want to clarify this, I'm not calling these people fake fans just because they don't like Shenmue 3 (that would be really childish), but because these people are actively damaging the series by spreading negativity everywhere.

In this case maybe even for personal gain (since with more than 800k followers, a certain amount of money is involved...).

I don't like this either since I think we should all be united under the same flag, but reality seems different, and I think we should instead draw a line here and don't give these people any change to gain more power (example more clicks, validate their opinions etc.), no instead we should treat them like the trolls they are.

Ok fair point. It's a very very fine line between damaging the series and commenting on something from a position of care shall we say.

E.g I think the forums would be wrong not to discuss the shortcomings in the story, that's what we're here for right? What is wrong and I agree with you on is people actively and consistently looking to take the series down which you see some people trying to do at every turn. Not being funny but we've had D3T and YSNET check these pages out in the past so there's no reason to think they haven't done so since release and see the things we've highlighted. Also Yu Suzuki himself said he needs to changes things to make improvements, what they are time will tell.

The video I do think came from a fan who has become disillusioned with the series, which is sad as I'd never let one entry sully my opinion of a whole series of games, movies etc. It sours the taste a little sure but I can't understand that sort of reaction personally. But as another user said any press is good press and if people pick it up to see why that person thought the way they do then its 1 more sale towards Shenmue 4.

People speak positively and negatively about video games all the time. Even though Shenmue is a struggling series and we all want to see the conclusion doesn't mean it gets a pass. If you like the game be vocal. If you dont like the game be vocal.

I'm right along with you this is negative press for Shenmue 3 but its par for the course. Just like if everybody loved Shenmue 3 we would be happy and celebrating. All we can do at this point is hope Yu Suzuki and his team hear the criticism and push to make Shennue 4 a all around better experience.

That's part of the problem in some respects. It's easy to be negative (and rightly so in some aspects) but how many people do you see singing praises of anything these days in general? Then again you buy the game you have the right to say what you like (within reason, not like TLOU2 style in other words) about that game. It's like me going to a football (soccer) game, if I'm going to boo my team for playing badly I will do that and have that right because I've paid. The difference is when you voice an initial displeasure to consistently trying to tear something down, when does that become harmful?

 

[Suzaku]

He made the video because he obviously felt very strongly about his disappointment. He even mentions several times that he takes no pleasure in shitting on S3 (and his channel history bears that out). From his perspective, he was a fan of the series, held out hope for 20 years that the sequel would be amazing if it continued and was met with the reality that it not only failed to live up to his expectations, but was an outright bad game. He articulated perfectly what many fans felt.

That's maybe good for him to vent his extreme and unhealthy frustation in a form of a video review, but how this is useful to other people, fans and Shenmue series?
Does he think that "shitting on S3" will solve all issues and magically give him a perfect Shenmue 4?

People who act like modern day prophets and have some kind of following, should try to not abuse their power.
We have already lots of hate videos about Shenmue 3, especially by people who was never interested in the series (Jim Sterling and others), we don't need also ex-fans that to adds more fuel to an already critical situation.