that Lan Di fight...

lavrentis said:
What makes no sense is that in Shenmue 2, you have to impress the scout who looks for martial artists for the Chi You Men. These fights are quite hard at times.

Yet the guards, guarding Lan Di ffs! are pathetically weak!
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My judgement can't be fair on this. I spent a lot of time in street fights to improve my skill so I naturally ended to be overpowered, although I didn't expect the max level would make such a difference.

At the time, Yu scrapped the training system in Shenmue 2 because he had no idea how to deal properly with this issue. Now that the leveling system is even more formal and with the addition of fighting sub-quests, Shenmue 3 was even trickier to balance.

Shenmue is no more different than most of JRPGs. Both share the same universal headache in design.

The few PV balls for the first load of guards still felt highly unnecessary though.
 
Nigel said:
I'm really torn on the entire castle section. I had chills up my spine racing up knowing I'd fight Lan Di, and I still think the fight with him, as is, was spot on.
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The actual encounter was excellent, I’m glad they highlighted despite Ryo’s progress the gulf between abilities of the two.

With that said as with most elements of Shenmue 3’s narrative it lacked gravitas, stakes and frankly the in universe logic was wobbly to say the least.

For example it’s proven Lan Di could easily dispatch of Ryo and Ren, yet we are meant to believe he just idly stands and stares outside window after Ren tosses the mirror? This isn’t like the rooftop scene in Shenmue 2 where he clearly thought of Ryo as a nuisance and was observing him, in part I believe for assessment purposes.

This time he had to actually get involved, yet he just acts to passively in the end. Yet a much more credible way for Ren and Ryo to escape was the crumbling building collapsing putting a barrrier between the two, so they could escape to safely instead of characterizing Lan Di as so passive in that moment.
 
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code l name said:
The actual encounter was excellent, I’m glad they highlighted despite Ryo’s progress the gulf between abilities of the two.

With that said as with most elements of Shenmue 3’s narrative it lacked gravitas, stakes and frankly the in universe logic was wobbly to say the least.

For example it’s proven Lan Di could easily dispatch of Ryo and Ren, yet we are meant to believe he just idly stands and stares outside window after Ren tosses the mirror? This isn’t like the rooftop scene in Shenmue 2 where he clearly thought of Ryo as a nuisance and was observing him, in part I believe for mild amusement.

This time he had to actually get involved, yet he just acts to passively in the end. Yet a much more credible way for Ren and Ryo to escape was the crumbling building collapsing putting a barrrier between the two, so they could escape to safely instead of characterizing Lan Di as so passive in that moment.
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I wouldn't say he's passive, it's just that Ryo and Ren are kind of beneath him. They're a mere inconvenience really.
 
DragonOfJoejima said:
I wouldn't say he's passive, it's just that Ryo and Ren are kind of beneath him. They're a mere inconvenience really.
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I would concur if you were talking about the ending of Shenmue 2. The fact his henchman/suborindates/fighters were dispatched necessitated he had to personally get involved this time and engage in combat.

The upcoming power struggle between Niao Sun and Lan Di could be very interesting, I just hope it’s executed a lot better in Shenmue 4, so we better understand the motivations and machinations involved.
 
I found the ending to be exciting to play but ultimately disappointing for reasons already discussed. Honestly, Lan Di's presence in the castle didn't even make sense and to me seemed clearly tacked on to avoid blue-balling fans.
 
Going into it and only ever hearing the cold deep voice "Get up, I'll allow you die like a warrior".

It was very mixed when I heard him say "Hm, it seems like you've improved quite a bit", in that tone and voice.
 
I think I turned my brain off during the ending because it’s seriously the part of the game that felt the most exciting and interesting to me. At least a lot of stuff happened in the final hour, even if the rest of the game didn’t really set up that level of action. I don’t expect award-winning storytelling from my video games and I felt it delivered the right level of excitement and style for a Japanese-styled video game. The editing is good, the animation looks competent or even great, the acting in Japanese is pretty good, and I think they really nailed some of the character models.
 
Anyway, I assumed Ryo plows through those dudes because he’s now really, really strong, yet again, after learning his special moves and defeating Mr. Muscles. I admit it would’ve been cooler to actually fight the guys guarding Lan Di, but I don’t think it’s inexplicable.

I also never interpreted Ryo’s reaction to Chai as Ryo not recognizing Chai. He seemed befuddled or annoyed to me, but not like his memory was wiped...
 
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code l name said:
With that said as with most elements of Shenmue 3’s narrative it lacked gravitas, stakes and frankly the in universe logic was wobbly to say the least.
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I'm right there with you on this point. As to Lan Di standing there, that also surprised me most. Though he's a man of composure, you'd think he'd be running for at least one of three reasons: for his life, for his life but also after Ren/Ryo to punish them, or simply to get to wherever it landed. I don't think he'd be stoical in that moment. Besides, where did the mirror land? If water, I think he'd be fuming.

Yet a much more credible way for Ren and Ryo to escape was the crumbling building collapsing putting a barrier between the two...
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Similarly, one would think part of the ending could've been some sort of QTE of them avoiding falling rafters or burning stairs. Without getting tangential or nit-picking, and though I obviously respect suspension of reality in games, I think this affirms what you and appear to agree upon*: there was no gravity to the ending which, coupled with some of the misplaced tone/humor drew some of us out of a situation which could've commanded much more intensity.

*I've read several of your posts critical of S3, and almost always agree in full. Thanks for providing what I find to be a balanced read on it all. Cheers for helping my clarify some of my own thoughts.




mjqjazzbar said:
I also never interpreted Ryo’s reaction to Chai as Ryo not recognizing Chai. He seemed befuddled or annoyed to me, but not like his memory was wiped...
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This is my read, too. Especially since they couldn't well program his fighting engine, perhaps the easier way to implement him was to present him merely as a nuisance, if not some comic relief. Though for another topic, I think many of us overlook how Yu tried to implement comedy in this installment. I suspect some of it is literally lost in translation.
 
BloodyHeartland said:
I get the feeling that Lan Di would expect it was a fake if Ren was willing to throw it out the window.
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That's possible; it could also be that Lan Di rightly read Ren's reaction in the effort to protect Ryo.


To that end, another thing I defend about the fight is Ren's (potential) character development within. I loved the contrast: he'll always remain smug and lazy (take out only one Lan Di associate), but he stepped in when he knew it was serious.
Initially, I was irritated that we didn't find much progression from the Yellow Head Bldg. (cheeky, then serious), but Yu may be trying to portray a more realistic human than a traditional arc of character growth. Ren may just be a dude who wants his treasure but, in those moments of self-interest, there are glimpses of actual respect and care for Ryo. There seemed to be a little more than the hand on the shoulder of S2, but I'd like to see a lot more in S4.
I think that's why many of us find him so charming: sort of like The Walking Dead's Negan, he's insufferable, yet comes through when he knows he must.
 
Yokosuka said:
At the time, Yu scrapped the training system in Shenmue 2 because he had no idea how to deal properly with this issue. Now that the leveling system is even more formal and with the addition of fighting sub-quests, Shenmue 3 was even trickier to balance.
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Common misconception; look at your moves before then after sparring Jianmin, they level up quicker than Shenmue Ch1, even. They simply made fighting a bit looser and more forgiving, with Retry attempts becoming much easier with each fail.
 
The Lan Di encounter was Epic. You'd think there would be some small talk between them, but nope, Ryo just points at lan di and tells him to fight him. The camera shot close up of Ryo's lower face as he's pointing adds to experience.

Ryo has come really far in his martial arts ability, only for Lan Di to make him look like a fool. Ren saving Ryo was also a really nice touch

The fight itself was great but should have been a minute longer and maybe mix in some qtes for more awesomeness.

Overall i loved it. Sets things up perfectly for Ryo in Shenmue 4. Both him and Ren now know Ryo is no match for Lan Di. If Ryo tries to chase after Lan Di for another fight, Ren will be there to put him in check and give him the reality check he needs.
 
Nigel said:
Similarly, one would think part of the ending could've been some sort of QTE of them avoiding falling rafters or burning stairs. Without getting tangential or nit-picking, and though I obviously respect suspension of reality in games, I think this affirms what you and appear to agree upon*: there was no gravity to the ending which, coupled with some of the misplaced tone/humor drew some of us out of a situation which could've commanded much more intensity.

*I've read several of your posts critical of S3, and almost always agree in full. Thanks for providing what I find to be a balanced read on it all. Cheers for helping my clarify some of my own thoughts.
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Yeah, I thought upon reflection as I completed ending sequence second time how they missed an opportunity for climatic QTE sequence. Imagine playing as Ryo and Ren barley escape burning and collapsing old castle as they find refuge in the small boat that brought them over.

Thanks for compliment. Even though I can be very critical of the game, it comes from a place of love and adoration for the series, including the third game. I actually was reading my initial impressions thread and as you can see I was largely very positive going through game outside last sequence[/url]. Every time I start a second playthrough I stop, so I’ll be interested to see how my opinion changes or evolves.

ShenSun said:
Overall i loved it. Sets things up perfectly for Ryo in Shenmue 4. Both him and Ren now know Ryo is no match for Lan Di. If Ryo tries to chase after Lan Di for another fight, Ren will be there to put him in check and give him the reality check he needs.
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I agree largely with everything you said but that’s why Ryo’s last line rings particularly hollow. We are shown moments where Ryo becomes a lot more self aware but I feel a lot of that good characterization is reduced by his last line, attempting to erase what just happened moments ago by the hands of Lan Di.
 
ShenSun said:
The Lan Di encounter was Epic. You'd think there would be some small talk between them, but nope, Ryo just points at lan di and tells him to fight him. The camera shot close up of Ryo's lower face as he's pointing adds to experience.

Ryo has come really far in his martial arts ability, only for Lan Di to make him look like a fool. Ren saving Ryo was also a really nice touch

The fight itself was great but should have been a minute longer and maybe mix in some qtes for more awesomeness.

Overall i loved it. Sets things up perfectly for Ryo in Shenmue 4. Both him and Ren now know Ryo is no match for Lan Di. If Ryo tries to chase after Lan Di for another fight, Ren will be there to put him in check and give him the reality check he needs.
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I must admit the choreography of Lan Di’s moves during the post-fight cutscene looked incredible, like authentically kung-fu movie quality. A bit more would of been nice.
 
Nigel said:
but how'd she find out about Ryo/Shenhua's role? Did they find a photo of Shenhua in Yuan's home? Did he crack? Did someone tell her what those two looked like? Whatever the reason, I just wanted a reason.
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Not sure I understand the confusion here. Ryo and Shenhua go after the thugs in Bailu, so logically you would think they would have been the ones to inform the higher ups of Ryo and Shenhua’s involvement. Furthermore, we see Niao Sun on the boat when they first arrive at Niaowu so she was already keeping a close eye on them. If I misunderstood what you meant, I apologise.
 
Sh3ppy said:
Not sure I understand the confusion here. Ryo and Shenhua go after the thugs in Bailu, so logically you would think they would have been the ones to inform the higher ups of Ryo and Shenhua’s involvement. Furthermore, we see Niao Sun on the boat when they first arrive at Niaowu so she was already keeping a close eye on them. If I misunderstood what you meant, I apologise.
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That's a fair point, and you indeed understood. I more so meant that I wish some of those connections, which one can indeed intuit, were made a little more explicit within the plot. To your point though, it's likely enough that Chai or someone let the higher ups know.
 
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