The Pretentious Sophistry of Super Eyepatch Wolf and His Bad Take on Shenmue III

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This is worse than the previous response video that was posted.

The quality of the video is really well put together but he just seems to miss the point of SEPW criticisms entirely. I'm not trying to defend SEPW here, I think he was hyperbolic and pedantic a lot of the times for entertainment sake, but this video seems more concerned with direct rebuttals of the examples SEPW used rather than the points he was trying to make.

Best example would be the ending fan fic. Both VB and SEPW come to the same conclusion and point, they only differ slightly in the execution. The point SEPW was trying to make is that the ending should have shown how Ryo improved or at least shown how his progress up to this point affects his relationship with Lan Di in some way; as of the end of S3 they are basically in the same position. Since VB comes to the same conclusion anyway, just doesn't agree with the use of the body check here, he is the one that ends up coming across as pedantic in his video.
 
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I thought it was a fair video.To be frank think most of us that have played Shenmue 3 knew SEPW critique of the gambling system/pay walls and unskippable scenes knew his argument were made in bad faith or exaggerated for comedic effect, which this video reinforces.

The one area I vehemently disagree with his assertion that the main thrust of the story is only Ryo’s progression as a martial artist. Ryo’s attempt to avenge his father’s death is intrinsically tied to this and they aren’t exclusive. In addition while Shenmue started out as VF RPG and we believe it will loosely follow the title chapter cards, I don’t necessarily think you can make a 1:1 analogy with everything related to Akira.

Nonetheless as we’ve discussed for months there’s plenty of plot developments big and small that occur during Shenmue 3, the most pivotal being the turf war occurring in Chiyoumen and Ryo loosing procession of Phoenix mirror.
 
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Dammit that last fight cutscene always gets me so hot.

The point SEPW was trying to make is that the ending should have shown how Ryo improved or at least shown how his progress up to this point affects his relationship with Lan Di in some way
It does, though. Lan Di is forced to recognize Ryo (and vocalizes it) after Ryo flattens half an army of underlings, and barges into his quarters, quickly dispatching of the three fighters he's hand picked to accompany him. That's a pretty good indication of how he's progressed. It's also good to show that Ryo is still not even remotely a match for Lan DI by not allowing any of his hits to connect.
 

ShenSun

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Very good video. I still think shenmue 3 is more about Shenhua and Ryo, than Ryo and Lan Di. The entire plot surrounds around Shenhua and her dad. Amazing detail on the body check moves in the video

And did anyone really expect Ryo to hit Lan di?? That better not happen until well into Shenmue 5

That wish song remix at the end of the video is amazing.
 
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Finally someone called out that bullshit fan fiction ending. I just remember laughing out loud watching that original video present that fan fiction and thinking "that's actually worse than what Shenmue III gave us. That's total fan fiction bullshit and further proof that no matter what III did, it was never gonna please everyone...not when everyone has their own perfect sequel built in their head"

The round house kick argument was also nice to be tackled.

Good vid. As you can probably tell, I wasn't really a fan of that original video and thought it was mostly click bait garbage designed to get a reaction. But the arguments within were pretty flimsy. VirtuaBros did a good job tackling them while still admitting III's flaws.
 
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Dammit that last fight cutscene always gets me so hot.


It does, though. Lan Di is forced to recognize Ryo (and vocalizes it) after Ryo flattens half an army of underlings, and barges into his quarters, quickly dispatching of the three fighters he's hand picked to accompany him. That's a pretty good indication of how he's progressed. It's also good to show that Ryo is still not even remotely a match for Lan DI by not allowing any of his hits to connect.
Yeah I don't disagree. I personally don't have a problem with how the fight with Lan Di was handled (aside from maybe the fake mirror shenanigans) and felt it was a high point of S3.

My point was though that VB and SEPW both felt that showing more explicitly Ryo's progression against Lan Di himself would have been better. Ironically VB calls out SEPW for his mentioning of the use of the body check but still arrives at the exact same conclusion albeit through a different means.

My main gripe with this video is that it seems to be calling out SEPW weak examples supporting his arguments rather than the arguments themselves. Which is totally fine, his intention may have been to show that SEPW arguments are weak because they are supported by weak examples. However, when he arrives at the same point at the end it kind of made me think VB was too caught up on rebutting the examples SEPW used rather than showing why he though S3 was a good game, or at least a better game than SEPW made it out to be.
 

ShenSun

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Finally someone called out that bullshit fan fiction ending

If Ryo hit Lan Di in Shenmue 3, it wouldn't feel right. It would feel rushed. Ryo has gotten better at fighting but he's no where near Lan Di's level.

When we do finally get a hit on him in Shenmue 4, hopefully Shenmue 5, it's going to be the best feeling ever. The long journey of training throughout the series and bettering one's self will all pay off in that moment. Its going to be epic!
 
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If Ryo hit Lan Di in Shenmue 3, it wouldn't feel right. It would feel rushed. Ryo has gotten better at fighting but he's no where near Lan Di's level.

When we do finally get a hit on him in Shenmue 4, hopefully Shenmue 5, it's going to be the best feeling ever. The long journey of training throughout the series and bettering one's self will all pay off in that moment. Its going to be epic!

I agree, it also wouldn't work within the context of the story considering everyone has been telling him he doesn't stand a chance against Lan Di. The fight in 3 went pretty much how I always thought their first encounter would go. With Ryo not standing a chance because he still has much to learn and master. If his father didn't stand a chance, then what chance does Ryo have at this stage? Hence he has more to learn and more to encounter. Hence Virtuabros clearly understands Shenmue and the fact that this is about the journey more so than the destination itself.

My disappointment with the ending is that it should have been the moment where it starts to seep in for Ryo that 1.) he's still no match for Lan Di and 2.) this is maybe bigger than his need for revenge. But alas, maybe that will come in Shenmue IV.

The fan fiction ending was just that, fan fiction. It's exactly what I've said here time and time again. It's the perfect sequel built in the fans mind and no matter what Yu delivered, it would never have met their own expectations. That is not to say Shenmue III is perfect (because its not, but I don't think it's as bad as some make out to be)...but yeah, I truly believe it didn't matter what he delivered. It was always destined to get that divide.
 
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If Ryo hit Lan Di in Shenmue 3, it wouldn't feel right. It would feel rushed. Ryo has gotten better at fighting but he's no where near Lan Di's level.

When we do finally get a hit on him in Shenmue 4, hopefully Shenmue 5, it's going to be the best feeling ever. The long journey of training throughout the series and bettering one's self will all pay off in that moment. Its going to be epic!
I feel if Ryo starts wrecking Lan Di, it could be because Lan Di had found out the truth about his father, and he loses his cool, and then there's a 'Are we the baddie?' moment.

Oh I haven't watched, can't be bothered with youtube wars lol.
 
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Most of Virtua Bros points were nothing new to me as I thought most of Eyepatch Wolf's points were exaggerated. That being said, I was completely wrong about Ryo learning Akira's Tetsu Zankou move twice so I apologize for spreading any disingenuous information. Also, his point about Eyepatch Wolf's alternative ending is one I had not considered before; but agree with.

It's a solid video all-around and makes me appreciate Shenmue III a little more. I still don't enjoy the game, but I understand why other people do. Just goes to prove how utterly divisive this game was but that Shenmue as a concept is something we can all unite behind.
 
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Yeah I don't disagree. I personally don't have a problem with how the fight with Lan Di was handled (aside from maybe the fake mirror shenanigans) and felt it was a high point of S3.

My point was though that VB and SEPW both felt that showing more explicitly Ryo's progression against Lan Di himself would have been better. Ironically VB calls out SEPW for his mentioning of the use of the body check but still arrives at the exact same conclusion albeit through a different means.

My main gripe with this video is that it seems to be calling out SEPW weak examples supporting his arguments rather than the arguments themselves. Which is totally fine, his intention may have been to show that SEPW arguments are weak because they are supported by weak examples. However, when he arrives at the same point at the end it kind of made me think VB was too caught up on rebutting the examples SEPW used rather than showing why he though S3 was a good game, or at least a better game than SEPW made it out to be.
That's a fair point. I don't think it's really encumbent on anyone, or the point of this particular video, to point out the good aspects of Shenmue III, though. Surely there are already plenty of videos and reviews that do this (not popular ones, but this video is unlikely to get anywhere near 1 million views itself). I think this video is more about pointing out that even if one isn't infatuated with SIII (a position the author makes a point to validate), that it's still not in any way as bad as someone like SEPW would have people believe. I think the point VB was driving at is that many of the criticisms leveled at the game by SEPW are either based in ignorance, or (maybe worse) pandering to internet shock-jocks.

I'm really not a fan of these sorts of high-brow flame wars on the Youtubes, either way. I would be fine with neither this video, nor SEPW's existing (also because I find his voice to be less like honey, and more like a thousand honey bees in my ear), but as far as retaliatory shit slinging goes, I though it was pretty well done.
 
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The irony is if that fan fiction ending were actually in Shenmue III and Ryo landed the body check on Lan Di then people would have complained that Lan Di was no stronger than the Red Snake thugs who all fell victim to it. Hey, it's not like people didn't complain about the Red Snake thugs as is for being weak. Imagine if Lan Di fell victim to the same move they did? Do you think that honestly would have went down well? People still would have found a reason to bitch about it.

The thing with Ryo is before III he had never truly encountered Lan Di long enough to actually study his martial arts. Yes, he has learnt new techniques along the way and is becoming a better fighter (to which even Lan Di admitted he's grown) but he's still not on the level of Lan Di. I would argue that's where IV should go next. He's faced off against Lan Di once and failed, now he should learn and grow from it. To me, this is exactly where the story needed to go. To finally have that encounter allowing him to maybe learn something from it and actually study his enemy more carefully moving forward.

Whether or not that will happen remains to be seen.

That's why I think the fan fiction ending is bullshit. Because it's just utter wish fulfilment for someone who wants to be instantly gratified not realising the long road that still lies ahead in the story. Don't get me wrong, I get why people wanted it, after waiting near 20 years, it's not hard to see why people want something like that...but now was not the time in the story and even if Shenmue III had been released on a still breathing Dreamcast way back when, I would argue this still would have been the same outcome for this point in the story. Granted, probably handled differently (I'm sure if Yu had his way, it would have been the Baisha ending as planned, but probably still same outcome for Ryo's first encounter with Lan Di)
 
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Good for Virtua Bros for creating this video but everything has it's haters. No matter how popular, type 'Destiny Sucks' into youtube and you'll get 5 or 6 1million+viewed videos stating it as fact, but they keep cranking them out. So many youtube personalities (hate that expression - half of them don't have any) literally make a career of shitting on everything and anything, like perpetual monday morning blues. They admit it too, hate/exaggeration = clicks = revenue. Jim Sterling even said that his positive videos don't get enough attention - but rather than trying to establish why that is he'll create a load of videos calling Ubisoft a bunch of wankers or Sony a shower of cunts for not putting PS5 pre orders up yet. This video, being positive, won't gain anywhere near the traction or audience that SEPW video did because they didn't say they wasted their lives or other dumb attention grabbing shit in it.

Effectively, SEPW traded his so-called fandom of the series for cash by creating a video filled with gross exaggeration and in some cases pure straight-up bullshit. He's lined his pockets by trying to ruin the series' rep and in business terms it was a smart move because he'll make a nice chunk of change and expand his audience for a million view video, but let's get real, any self respecting fan would do what they could to support a niche series rather than target it for clicks. You can still dislike a game and create a video critique without the bullshit hyperbole for clicks, but he didn't so fuck him, fuck his wasted life (his words) , he can get in the sea. :ROFLMAO:
 

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This is worse than the previous response video that was posted.

The quality of the video is really well put together but he just seems to miss the point of SEPW criticisms entirely. I'm not trying to defend SEPW here, I think he was hyperbolic and pedantic a lot of the times for entertainment sake, but this video seems more concerned with direct rebuttals of the examples SEPW used rather than the points he was trying to make.

Best example would be the ending fan fic. Both VB and SEPW come to the same conclusion and point, they only differ slightly in the execution. The point SEPW was trying to make is that the ending should have shown how Ryo improved or at least shown how his progress up to this point affects his relationship with Lan Di in some way; as of the end of S3 they are basically in the same position. Since VB comes to the same conclusion anyway, just doesn't agree with the use of the body check here, he is the one that ends up coming across as pedantic in his video.

Like Lan Di said " IT SEEMS YOU HAVE IMPROVED A BIT "

And Virtua Bros said " IF YOU ARE REALLY IN LOVE WITH THE IDEA OF HITTING LAN DI WITH THE BODY CHECK HERE'S HOW IT COULD BE IN A FUTURE GAME AS SOMETHING THAT HONOURS ITS CONTINUITY AND THE LEGACY OF VIRTUA FIGHTER RPG "

What Virtua Bros ment is that in Shenmue 3 at that point Ryo was never ment to have the ability to even touch Lan Di and it if Ryo was to hit Lan Di even once it would not definitely be with the Body Check a technique that Ryo could barely master.
Then he just gave the example of how in a future game that technique would work when Ryo had fully mastered it and is ability as a martial artist would closer to that of Lan Di's.

It also astonishes me how Shenmue Fans agree with this guy when we can see clearly that his video was made for is own selfish gain and even most ridiculous is him considering himself a fan and saying that we all should let go of the Shenmue series once and for all after what we managed to acomplish in all of these years that we have been fighting to get our beloved series back.
 
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