The Pretentious Sophistry of Super Eyepatch Wolf and His Bad Take on Shenmue III

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I think we've already had quite enough discussion on the reasons why you don't like the game, and how those criticisms don't equate to the game being poorly made, but instead that they inconvenience you on a personal level. I have to imagine that if you actually put as much time into playing the game in a more meaningful way, as you've put into complaining about it, you probably wouldn't hate it so much.
I was responding to your comment about the general sentiment of people attacking the game and comparing it to TLoU2. The difference is TLoU2 received hate before people played it, while Shenmue 3 received hate after people played it. I wasn't trying to interject why I dislike the game. I think rather than trying to imagine elaborate explanations of people's reactions to S3, we can just listen to what they said about it in that they didn't like it.

I wasn't offended by your comments about Jim Sterling, I just pointed it out. I don't like Jim either, but it's more because he's pandering to his patrons because he has to, as that's where his income comes from. He has an obligation to fall in line and please those who pay him. I don't even know if I've seen his Shenmue 3 review.
 

Sergeynest

Keep your Mind as clear as a Polished Mirror.
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I
Ryo collecting a Ryo figure is kinda weird. Not hugely immersion killing for me but I understand when people complain about it.

Being pandered to so blatantly is kind of off-putting after all this time. I didn't want Shenmue 3 to be about me or the fans, I wanted it to be about Ryo and the continuation of Shenmue. There's some tasteful fan service in the game, and some very tasteless fan service.
I understand what you are saying and I even partially agree with you on this matter.
In my case I didn't like the Lucky Hit stands with the faces of the backers in the Golden Goose Vip; for me in particular was immersion breaking.
As for the Shenmue saved building I don't mind as much but I think it would have been better if it became accessible only after we had beaten the game.
As for the capsule toys I think it was a great idea using the Shenmue characters considering the fact that they could no longer use Sega related figures.
I absolutly love the Shenmue capsule toy figures and if Sega decided to sell them as merchandise I would instantly buy them.
 

Sput Vas Normandy

THE REAL FOLK SHENMUE
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For a lot of us Shenmue 1 and 2 will forever be fantastic games, while Shenmue 3 will always be a so-so to bad game. That's what we're stuck with now. Trying to eliminate those views from the community will only hurt the community in the long run.

Oh yes, the good and old hasty generalization. For a lot of us. Who are you talking about? The guy of resetera that didnt play it? The one that saw an angry review on youtube?

I suppose you are talking of the Dojo then. Well, that's not accurate. 80% of the Dojo scored the game 7 to 10 (7, 8, 9, 10) in the only topic we made about it. If now you are going to argue that 7 it's a bullshit score, then you can keep it to yourself.
 
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I was responding to your comment about the general sentiment of people attacking the game and comparing it to TLoU2. The difference is TLoU2 received hate before people played it, while Shenmue 3 received hate after people played it. I wasn't trying to interject why I dislike the game. I think rather than trying to imagine elaborate explanations of people's reactions to S3, we can just listen to what they said about it in that they didn't like it.
I wasn't talking about a general sentiment. I was alluding to a cabal of mainstream critics who get off on the thought of flogging fans of Shenmue, and their many drones. Shenmue was absolutely hated on pre-release, though. Reactions to the early gameplay footage trailer, and the Epic exclusivity announcement are just two examples of how a number of people were champing at the bit to crucify the game on release. Maybe you were fortunate enough to not observe any of that. I don't know.


I wasn't offended by your comments about Jim Sterling, I just pointed it out. I don't like Jim either, but it's more because he's pandering to his patrons because he has to, as that's where his income comes from. He has an obligation to fall in line and please those who pay him. I don't even know if I've seen his Shenmue 3 review.
That's fine. I was just pointing out that I'm under no delusions of being canonized into sainthood, and have no qualms with of age bullies getting bullied. I don't think Sterling was really under any obligation to review Shenmue III. I think he took that vendetta up of his own accord. (Unless he commissions topics from patrons, and they specifically demanded it, I guess.)
 

Sput Vas Normandy

THE REAL FOLK SHENMUE
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The difference is TLoU2 received hate before people played it, while Shenmue 3 received hate after people played it.

Lol mate. You're absolutely brilliant. That one was superb.

Oh boy, you're a legend. You made me laugh so much... Wait a sec... Mh... Is this... No way... Are you talking serious? No, can't be. Impossible.

Wait a second... Yes! Yes you are! You ARE serious! Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Lemme see what we have here... OH wait, we should put music to this. Listen this while you scroll:



A lot of love here, indeed. 75 pages. 50 messages per page. 75*50= 3.750 messages of pure love. Absolutely no hate at all.








Why so serious, pal









Lets change the music come on man YEP YEP BUDDY YEP YEP WHOOOOYYY





YEP YEP COME ON LIGHT WEIIIIIGHT

 

spud1897

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Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
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Despite all of the Epic issues and badly run Kickstarter the game was (according to the numbers available) generally well received by fans. Check the user reviews across a number of major sites or find my old post where I dug a few out.

I suppose even that could be misrepresented as it's only a small selection of Shenmue fans? I dunno but I've seen plenty of good comments on social media, with some bad too ranging from Shenmue sucks lol to the genuine concerns raised before. Good outweighs bad though.

Anyway that's not to diminish the genuine criticisms we've seen, some that I agree with as well. But nor should we diminish someone's view who enjoyed the game warts and all. It works both ways. Its how said views are presented.

Now before this gets out of hand lets stop trying to wind each other up. What's the point to it?

Shouldn't we be uniting to get a Shenmue 4 rather than worrying about a YouTube video that really isn't going to make a difference to actual fans? Shouldn't helping make the Anime a success by pushing the hell out of it be a priority for the fanbase?

Yes these videos, whatever you think can cause damage and there's a history of misrepresentation in the media around Shenmue but they didn't exactly help themselves with the way some things were communicated during development.

So my point is this. Shenmue III is made, the missteps have been made and done, the later awesome trailers have been and passed, it is what it is, love or hate it. That's not going to change. Let's move on and work towards getting a 4th game/keeping the profile of Shenmue in the media so we're not forgotten.

Shenmue III discussion will always be welcomed here. We just have a bigger objective in my view now.
 
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ShenSun

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The conspiracy theories and victim mentality are terrible and shouldn't be nurtured on this site. Shenmue fans aren't targeted, nor is the Shenmue series. A lot of people let these things slide on this site and I think that's far more harmful than the naysayers on this forum.

I don't agree with the premise of that statement, but its fair feedback so i'll pass it on.

You can't create a meme to mock people then be upset when that's pointed out as passive aggressive. It's mocking. I'm not bothered by it, but it's there and that's what it is.

I never said i was upset about it. Feel free to post whatever you want about me in response or in general. Memes, poke fun, cheeky humor etc. All good.That goes for everyone. But when there's always a problem on the forum and your name along with a few others are constantly brought up every single time, then we got an issue.

As for drama and fighting, I don't perceive activity as drama or inherently negative. I'm glad there's people saying the game sucks and that we can talk about it. It connects us, and I think the negative perception will ultimately ensure a better Shenmue 4. If the game only received glowing reviews, I would feel quite hopeless about the series continuing with the high level of fan service, and the misdirection of the story. Bad reviews keep developers in check. The criticism is what gives me hope for the future of the series.

Normal activity is what all the other members are doing. You have a history of bad behavior and have been brought up numerous times.

Criticism and suggested improvements is a good thing and will obviously lead to a better Shenmue 4, which is why we've made a thread for that and others have posted their disappointment/critiques of the game many times. For some reason though, no matter how many times that's pointed out to you, you continue with the same story

The community should be open to all discussions (unless it resorts to blatant flaming and the such). I don't know why you'd post that you should be more harsh in bans and account removals. It's an incredibly small community as is and removing people would make it even smaller. For a lot of us Shenmue 1 and 2 will forever be fantastic games, while Shenmue 3 will always be a so-so to bad game. That's what we're stuck with now. Trying to eliminate those views from the community will only hurt the community in the long run.

See this is where me and you have a problem. I've repeatedly told you anyone can criticize Shenmue 3 as much as they want. I even agree with most of the criticisms and think they are valid. I have even made thread for it. Several members have expressed their disappointment with the game many times on this site. A lot of people rate the game 7/10, some even 6/10. I actually think you personally bring up some good points. You saying we are trying to eliminate those views is simply a lie and i think very manipulative. Members can discuss whatever they want and they do. The difference is, they conduct themselves properly. You have a history of doing the opposite.

As for the bans. I'd like it if no one was banned, but if someone is constantly ruining the experience for the rest of the users on the forum, they should be banned regardless of the size of the community.

There's lots of people on this site who criticize Shenmue 3 and no one has an issue with them. You and certain other members on the other hand have a history of constantly causing problems on this site and are always at the center of these issues. It's getting tiresome and boring now. As i said before, I'm getting fed up of repeating the same thing to you and i'm getting fed up of logging on to these forums and the same few people are always at the center of drama.

This is my personal opinion, but to me it seems like

1) You are not willing to take any responsibility for any of your actions
2) You are not self aware of your actions
3) You always have to be right
4) You believe your opinion is more valid than others and are willing to belittle those who have a different opinion to yours
5) You are deliberately causing drama on purpose for some kind of response. Possibly attention

Personally, i'm not interested in your reasons and I think you know very well what you are doing. With all of that said, I personally am banning your account for a week. Just so you know, this action should have probably happened before, but as I said, the mod team is very lenient and tend to let things slide even when we really shouldn't. During the week off, you should do the following

1) Search the forums for posts about people being disappointed with Shenmue 3 and look how they conduct themselves
2) Go through your post history and see how me and several other members constantly point out the same thing to you
3) Go and look at the other threads about improving/criticizing Shenmue 3
4) Self reflection. Ask yourself, why is your name constantly getting bought up over and over again, even though there are many others on this site who don't like Shenmue 3

I think your posting has gotten better since before and I'll be the first one to step in and give you the benefit of the doubt or defend you if/when you return with a better attitude. But this constant repetitive problem that keeps showing up must be dealt with.

It stops here.
 
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bcdcdude

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I can't accept that. Reviewing products is an industry in itself. I've been reading game reviews since 2000 and I'm not interested in reviewers holding back on what they think about the game, or reviewers being accountable for whether or not a sequel gets funded. That's bs. Yes, reviewers do have influence but one review shouldn't be the sole deciding factor for anyone. If the consumer is interested, they can check out more than one review. Ultimately it's up to the development team to ensure they are making a quality game that conveys the feelings, experience and messages they want to convey.

I recently saw a Yu Suzuki interview where he said that Shenmue 3 should feel like going back home. I think that's a nice sentiment and way to view the game, but not everyone is going to see that interview (including myself, because it was an older interviews). If that's the feeling the game is supposed to give off, then that needs to be part of their goal in the end product. I can appreciate that sentiment after the fact, but at no point did the game itself feel like going back home for me. I guess my point here is that when someone buys Shenmue 3 to play it, their experiences relies solely on that game and nothing else.

I'll say it loud and clear. Super Eyepatch Wolf has no responsibility, accountability, or say in whether the series continues. That is solely on Yu Suzuki and the relationships he has in the industry.


Who is they and what will they win? You guys need to knock off the conspiracy theories. So what if someone gave a negative reaction to your post. I get them all the time on this site.


No. He has no obligation to protect your feelings when reviewing a game he played. That's flat out ludicrous.

I've realised that he has since been temporarily banned, so I feel my reply might go out on deaf ears, but at the same time, I' like to get my thoughts out of my system.

For the most part I agree with the notion that critics should be honest in how they feel. However, in the last few years - and this might be due to the rise of social media, "influencers" (I hate that term) and people just wanting attention - my admiration of critics has greatly diminished. What I see more and more these days - especially with youtubers and such is that the videos are a mixture of personal opinion and attention seeking. People mostly watch YouTube videos for the individual and not necessarily the subject they are talking about. I'm sure he gets a million views on other videos he does.

Video game criticism is a tricky and thorny subject; you only have to look at the sorry Gamergate saga, the tribalism of gamers (be it Microsoft vs Sony, Steam vs Steam etc) and the over-reaching influence of gigantic companies to almost change the narrative (such as witholding review copies of games to websites/individuals on a black list, review embargoes etc) to see that there are few critics I admire these days. I certainly couldn't name very many (perhaps the dude from Digital Foundry who looks at the positive and negatives, but in a way that doesn't ruffle any feathers)

The only critic in recent years I feel I have any admiration for these days in any medium is the film reviewer Mark Kermode. He does slam some films (and some of them are glorious such as his Sex & The City 2 review), but for the most part, he is passionate about cinema and finds the good in almost anything. Even if I disagree with him, he has a way about saying things that help me to understand. Or it could be because he's been a critic for many years, he doesn't feel the need for attention seeking or to shout hyperbole.

If you want to go further back, you might also think of Pauline Kael. She had an acidic wit about film critcism and she has shat on many movies I genuinely love (she seemed to despite Kubrick). Despite that, her writing has an eloquence about it that even if I think she's talking bollocks, at least she is sincere about it and is beholden to nobody. The danger with her was that she often got more attention than the movie she was reviewing. Whether that is by accident or design I cannot say.

At any rate, I feel critics are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It's far too easy to be negative and shit on things than to come up with something positive and it's the sad state of the world today that more attention is foisted on negativity than positivity, so for me SEPW's video is one part sensationalism (for the clicks which = revenue), one part ego (because having a million people watch your video is a boost to said ego whichever way you look at it), one part advertisement (the fact we're still fucking talking about it now) and one part genuine sincerity.

Sadly these days, we all fall into a trap of "something I love is being hated by someone else" and we try to fix it, whether by discussing this ad nauseum like now, or to try and convince people to change their minds. As much as I'd love to say "ignore it", it's a bit difficult when someone of influence does it because it becomes too big to ignore.

Sorry if i'm rambling~
 
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@bcdcdude

Hit the nail on the head. One of the worst pieces of journalism I've heard was during a IGN podcast and I think it was Ryan McCaffrey who said it. They were hyping up a recent hands on with GTA 4 and talking about how every pedestrian has their own lives and weren't walking around aimlessly "like they do in Shenmue". I won't even delve into the reasons why that is bull but from there I could not take mainstream game journalist seriously. Then YouTube came along and it was a bit of fresh air to have normal people giving their opinions but it has got to a point that YouTubers are now mainstream media and therefore are doing controversial things for views etc.
 

Truck_1_0_1_

I Don't Know, but I Have You!
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Nothing :(
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TBF, that film came out in like 2011 or 2010 or something? Long time ago!

(I'm not a fan of the show or films and never have been, just sharing my knowledge :))
 

bcdcdude

Dude with tweed :)
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Damn, are those old hags still at it?

Haha, yeah it's quite old, but like I say he's been around for a long time! His review for Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen is comedy gold too. I thought he was going to tear into the Sonic the Hedgehog movie earlier this year, but he said that for what it is, it's inoffensive and mildly charming which further proved how much I appreciate him. He does a lot of art house reviews (which I take notice of), so he could easily be a snob, but the fact he isn't is fantastic.

The best quote is when he says "It is 146 minutes long. The same length as 2001: A Space Odyssey and that film takes you from the birth of mankind to the birth of a new species and in SATC2, it goes from the beginning of a group of consumerly obssessed caricturers who end up as a group of consumerly obsessed caricturers!"
 
Joined
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I don't agree with the premise of that statement, but its fair feedback so i'll pass it on.



I never said i was upset about it. Feel free to post whatever you want about me in response or in general. Memes, poke fun, cheeky humor etc. All good.That goes for everyone. But when there's always a problem on the forum and your name along with a few others are constantly brought up every single time, then we got an issue.



Normal activity is what all the other members are doing. You have a history of bad behavior and have been brought up numerous times.

Criticism and suggested improvements is a good thing and will obviously lead to a better Shenmue 4, which is why we've made a thread for that and others have posted their disappointment/critiques of the game many times. For some reason though, no matter how many times that's pointed out to you, you continue with the same story



See this is where me and you have a problem. I've repeatedly told you anyone can criticize Shenmue 3 as much as they want. I even agree with most of the criticisms and think they are valid. I have even made thread for it. Several members have expressed their disappointment with the game many times on this site. A lot of people rate the game 7/10, some even 6/10. I actually think you personally bring up some good points. You saying we are trying to eliminate those views is simply a lie and i think very manipulative. Members can discuss whatever they want and they do. The difference is, they conduct themselves properly. You have a history of doing the opposite.

As for the bans. I'd like it if no one was banned, but if someone is constantly ruining the experience for the rest of the users on the forum, they should be banned regardless of the size of the community.

There's lots of people on this site who criticize Shenmue 3 and no one has an issue with them. You and certain other members on the other hand have a history of constantly causing problems on this site and are always at the center of these issues. It's getting tiresome and boring now. As i said before, I'm getting fed up of repeating the same thing to you and i'm getting fed up of logging on to these forums and the same few people are always at the center of drama.

This is my personal opinion, but to me it seems like

1) You are not willing to take any responsibility for any of your actions
2) You are not self aware of your actions
3) You always have to be right
4) You believe your opinion is more valid than others and are willing to belittle those who have a different opinion to yours
5) You are deliberately causing drama on purpose for some kind of response. Possibly attention

Personally, i'm not interested in your reasons and I think you know very well what you are doing. With all of that said, I personally am banning your account for a week. Just so you know, this action should have probably happened before, but as I said, the mod team is very lenient and tend to let things slide even when we really shouldn't. During the week off, you should do the following

1) Search the forums for posts about people being disappointed with Shenmue 3 and look how they conduct themselves
2) Go through your post history and see how me and several other members constantly point out the same thing to you
3) Go and look at the other threads about improving/criticizing Shenmue 3
4) Self reflection. Ask yourself, why is your name constantly getting bought up over and over again, even though there are many others on this site who don't like Shenmue 3

I think your posting has gotten better since before and I'll be the first one to step in and give you the benefit of the doubt or defend you if/when you return with a better attitude. But this constant repetitive problem that keeps showing up must be dealt with.

It stops here.

I have to confess that if I am not consulting the Dojo so much those last weeks/months is because of Tomasina's obsessive and hateful repetitive posts against Shenmue III. It goes for months now and in my opinion it is kind of pathological. I mean... once you said what you have to say, why using so much energy trying to convince others that you are the TRUTH keeper? It is insane behaviour and I don't want inflicting that to myself, so I decided to "quit" the Dojo for a moment.
Peace.
 

ShenSun

Site Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
I have to confess that if I am not consulting the Dojo so much those last weeks/months is because of Tomasina's obsessive and hateful repetitive posts against Shenmue III. It goes for months now and in my opinion it is kind of pathological. I mean... once you said what you have to say, why using so much energy trying to convince others that you are the TRUTH keeper? It is insane behaviour and I don't want inflicting that to myself, so I decided to "quit" the Dojo for a moment.
Peace.

Apologies for not dealing with this issue sooner. We all try to be very lenient with everyone on the Dojo and while I think that's a good thing, it's clear that approach does have some flaws which has affected you and others on the forum. Fortunately, 99% of members on this site are awesome and always bring good value to the forum regardless of where they stand on the franchise and their own personal opinions in general.

The 1% of accounts that are constantly causing problems have all been identified and will be under the spotlight going forward. I'll be advocating for a zero tolerance policy against them from now on. On that note, we'll be keeping a close eye on their posts in the future.

I'm not happy with the experience you and some others have had. Ultimately, it's our responsibility to make sure you and everyone else has an enjoyable time on this site. The same 1-3 accounts should not be ruining that for everyone. We'll learn the lessons from this experience and make sure that mistake doesn't happen again.

Thanks for the feedback and we hope to see you soon
 
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