The Shenmue 3 Review Thread

[Reprise]

Guys in the context of a modern game which is their target audience, they aren't wrong. Sure it sucks, but most modern gamers (regardless if you like them or are one) are not gonna like this game. For those of you saying it's the best game of this gen, give me a break. It's shenmue 3 and it'll make older gamers and fans of the series happy. That's who funded it. Get over it.

What a load of shite. All this "within the context of modern games" bollocks is meaningless. What does that even mean?

"Within the context of modern popular music, Judas Priest have clearly aged. 5.9/10"

"Within the context of modern cinema, blah blah blah"

What do they want? Stupid derivative nonsense like way points, mission markers and fetch quests for nameless nobody filler NPCs?

Shenmue 3 is anything but "mediocre".

They love those shite 2D metrovania games that gleefully rip off their source material and do nothing to move the genre forward though.

 

[Reprise]

What kind of a bullshit system is that?! According to their faq it's because "they write better". Fucking IGN gave Imagine Party Babyz for Wii a 7.5 and God Hand a 3.0 for crying out loud. They deducted points from a Pokémon game because it had too much water.

Is this a fucking joke? How can their opinion be more important than anyone else's?

Screw this world. I'm going to sleep.

Yeah, it's a fucking stupid stance to take. IGN is a garbage publication. It's like people trusting the Daily Mail with the news, politics and economics just because it has the largest circulation and highest sales of any paper in the UK. Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it's opinion is more important and true.

 

[Down by Law]

While I am disheartend at the IGN US review it's not the end of the world. There are still lots of reviews to come in.
Take IGN Japan's 9 and IGN US 5.9 and it's a 7.5 average which kind of fits where most reviews are falling.

 

[pilman]

Guys in the context of a modern game which is their target audience, they aren't wrong. Sure it sucks, but most modern gamers (regardless if you like them or are one) are not gonna like this game. For those of you saying it's the best game of this gen, give me a break. It's shenmue 3 and it'll make older gamers and fans of the series happy. That's who funded it. Get over it.

Disagree respectfully as that is all subjective. I haved played the CODs, starcrafts, warcrafts, halos, assassins creeds, etc and Shenmue was the only series I came back to replay multiple times since II was released. Maybe to others the the game is not the best of the year, but to me and many others in the Shenmue community, it stole our hearts and is the best of the year for us.

 

[Reprise]

The "fans will like it" trope is tiresome. Like, duh. Of course fans are going to like something that does more or less most things and more that they want. Are people trying to suggest the opinions of fans are not genuine or are somehow less important? Like "fans" woke up one morning and decided "this thing that other people don't like, well I'm going to pretend to like it". It's like people think fans make a conscious proactive decision to force themselves to like something, instead of, you know, maybe just maybe the "thing" is good and appeals to these people in ways other things do not, therefore they become fans.

 

[shredingskin]

But most people I've seen playing it in streams are all more concerned with bum-rushing enemies with constant attacks and button mashing and then complaining when it doesn't work because the enemies punish them. Because everything about this system still has obvious frame data to it. You can't play it that way...you kind of have to bait your opponents out and catch 'em. That's when I've found it works best and had the most fun with it. I don't think the combat is the greatest combat I've ever seen...but it's far from terrible. I've really kind of been digging it with the more time I put into it.

I think that YS was targeting button mashing, that's what he meant by "cinematic combat", basically that every button combination will end up doing a special move, I think at the time they were previewing the demo he mimicked button mashing to testers (I think it was in Huber's preview). The best way to play is to circle around opponents and punish them at the end of their combo, but it doesn't work that well either because there's large dataframes and autocombo moves make the combat feel floaty, coupling that with wonky hit detection, no parries and a depleting block bar makes the game feel ultimately unresponsive.

 

[danielmann861]

I think that YS was targeting button mashing, that's what he meant by "cinematic combat", basically that every button combination will end up doing a special move, I think at the time they were previewing the demo he mimicked button mashing to testers (I think it was in Huber's preview). The best way to play is to circle around opponents and punish them at the end of their combo, but it doesn't work that well either because there's large dataframes and autocombo moves make the combat feel floaty, coupling that with wonky hit detection, no parries and a depleting block bar makes the game feel ultimately unresponsive.

I don't think that's true at all. Because there is too much lag between moves to allow successful button mashing. Like I said, there is frame data. If you try to tornado kick and they block then they punish you on block because the frame data leaves you open.

If they wanted button mashing they would have gone the Yakuza route where most of the enemies are practically brain dead and don't react at all (I love Yakuza but the combat is very button mashy in those games and the enemy outside of bosses ain't that hard to beat.)

That and the game actively punishes you for button mashing. I think he wants the player to learn for themselves how to play it. He's not really one for tutorials. Even the first game had nothing in the way of tutorials. Think about it? The fighting system in the first two games had no tutorials...sure, you could get away with mashing but if you wanted to you could also really learn it and actually do some wonderful shit with it.

This isn't Yakuza button mashing. Yakuza is very button mash friendly. I feel the exact opposite about Shenmue III...it actually rewards a bit of thought. You can't just button mash otherwise they will destroy you (especially on harder difficulties....I don't know about Normal but on Hard you can't get away with it)...certain moves will shut down their attacks btw (L2+Triangle+Cross is really effective for catching moves)

Don't button mash...if you button mash then you will hate the combat in this game...play it mindfully and you'll start to see the potential it actually has. Especially on harder difficulties...I can't speak for lower difficulties but on Hard, while it hasn't been overly taxing, it has actually been a surprising amount of fun to learn to play mindfully.

Again, I don't think it's the greatest fighting system I've ever played...but it's far from button mash friendly. The enemy will punish you if you do that shit. They will block and they will punish.

 

[WuyingRen]

As for QTE's? I think QTE's are WAY better in the older games. In the older games, the QTE's were awesome because of how they dynamically changed. If you failed a prompt, it didn't just fail you, it changed the progress of the scene but kept the scene flowing. Whereas in III, you fail a QTE and you're made to repeat it completely. Bit disappointing. Again, I know, budget constraints, but I will say the IGN US review maybe has a point about the QTE's. I liked the QTE's of the first two games much better and am kind of glad they've been really minimal in III thus far.

Got to agree on this and am surprised that this hasn’t come up in more reviews.

Perhaps I’m getting older and my reactions aren’t quite what they used to be, but I feel like there isn’t as much time to respond to QTEs in 3 as there used to be in the first two games. What makes it worse is that unlike previous games, it’s almost impossible to guess what button might come next.

As an example, I was going through a chase sequence and as I’d failed every single QTE prompt up until that point, I figured I’d try to use the screen to predict what was going to come next instead of trying to scramble to the button.

There’s a table I need to jump over, so I’ll press x to jump. Nope. You need to press up. Okay, no problem. Up is jump. A little later there’s another obstacle I need to jump over. I press up. Nope. Now circle is jump. Next obstacle that I need to jump over in the sequence comes along. Okay. It’s either going to be up or circle. Nope. It’s X now. Barrels falling on my right, so I should hit left to move out of the way, right? Nope. Go right into the direction the barrels are coming from. More barrels falling on my right. Should I press left or right? Nope. Press circle to stand still.

Whilst the QTE sequences do look nice when pulled off correctly, the lack of any repercussions for failing, the repetition, the inability to predict what’s coming and the shorter response times just make them tiresome and, like the IGN reviewer, I did find myself wishing they’d just played out as cut scenes.

 

[Vivi-gamer]

IGN UK gives Shenmue 5.9 but then IGN Japan gives Shenmue a 9... that's pretty damn polarzing!

 

[GhostTrick]

Also on combat:
I think the new input system is responsible for all the clunkiness. Combining buttons and directions is a better system than entering a string of input. Because a string of input introduce a delay. Try to use a kick with A/X. It's not instant. Because the game gives a slight delay for additionnal input that'd make a different technique.

 

[Mugen]

I am conflicted whether Steam user reviews would have helped now, seeing the user averages are not too shabby on MC. I think Steam would have been better in giving Shenmue III some legs compared with EGS. However, with the backer DLC issues still going on we would probably also have seen a pile of non-recommendations that would not have been updated when the issues are fixed.

 

[danielmann861]

Also on combat:
I think the new input system is responsible for all the clunkiness. Combining buttons and directions is a better system than entering a string of input. Because a string of input introduce a delay. Try to use a kick with A/X. It's not instant. Because the game gives a slight delay for additionnal input that'd make a different technique.

Yeah, a little bit. There is definitely a delay on the inputs. That's why I'm not sure it was meant to be played as button mashy. That combined with the enemy punishing you on block if you try to spam a lot of the big moves.

Yakua's combat (for example) is built for mostly button mashing in the sense that everything is responsive and fluid. Again I love Yakuza and it's not a knock at those games, but it's responsive and allows for button mashing with great success.

This? I don't know if the lag is intentional or what but it definitely has lag....that's why I'm not so sure it is meant to be played mashy. In a weird way, I feel its somewhere between turn based and action minded. (Am I the only that maybe feels that way about it or am I just weird?)

I don't know...maybe they should have added a tutorial explaining it?

Simple combos in game are effective though and generally quick...Triangle, Triangle, Triangle, Cross is quite quick and effective.

Like I said, far from the greatest system I've played...but I don't hate it. I've actually kind of enjoyed learning it for whatever reason and feel like I have a decent handle on it to make it kind of fun now. With that said, if I had to take SII or SIII's combat? I'd probably take Shenmue II's any day of the week over III. But for what it is? I see promise in the foundations. I hope they get to make another game and refine it.

 

[WuyingRen]

IGN UK gives Shenmue 5.9 but then IGN Japan gives Shenmue a 9... that's pretty damn polarzing!

I think it has more to do with the people reviewing the games more than the game itself. Ezra is a fan of the series and was given great access in the build up to release whereas KH has a track record of shitting on any game that breaks away from conventional norms. IGN America also seemed a little salty about the review embargo and not getting an advanced copy of the game for review.

 

[GhostTrick]

Yeah, a little bit. There is definitely a delay on the inputs. That's why I'm not sure it was meant to be played as button mashy. That combined with the enemy punishing you on block if you try to spam a lot of the big moves.

Yakua's combat (for example) is built for mostly button mashing in the sense that everything is responsive and fluid. Again I love Yakuza and it's not a knock at those games, but it's responsive and allows for button mashing with great success.

This? I don't know if the lag is intentional or what but it definitely has lag....that's why I'm not so sure it is meant to be played mashy. In a weird way, I feel its somewhere between turn based and action minded. (Am I the only that maybe feels that way about it or am I just weird?)

I don't know...maybe they should have added a tutorial explaining it?

Simple combos in game are effective though and generally quick...Triangle, Triangle, Triangle, Cross is quite quick and effective.

Like I said, far from the greatest system I've played...but I don't hate it. I've actually kind of enjoyed learning it for whatever reason and feel like I have a decent handle on it to make it kind of fun now. With that said, if I had to take SII or SIII's combat? I'd probably take Shenmue II's any day of the week over III. But for what it is? I see promise in the foundations. I hope they get to make another game and refine it.

I think the combat system has some good ideas and bases. I think a good idea would've been to tie every combo to the LT button + combination. This way, it would ensure basic moves wouldn't be so clunky.

 

[danielmann861]

What a load of shite. All this "within the context of modern games" bollocks is meaningless. What does that even mean?

"Within the context of modern popular music, Judas Priest have clearly aged. 5.9/10"

"Within the context of modern cinema, blah blah blah"

What do they want? Stupid derivative nonsense like way points, mission markers and fetch quests for nameless nobody filler NPCs?

Shenmue 3 is anything but "mediocre".

They love those shite 2D metrovania games that gleefully rip off their source material and do nothing to move the genre forward though.

Well technically Shenmue III does have its fair share of fetch quests (I actually have been enjoying the fetch quests though)

But yeah, I tend to agree. It's amazing how all the 8 bit pixel art throw back games are rewarded as brilliant nostalgic throw backs...but in this case it's "dated, janky and too nostalgic. It does nothing to move the industry forward."

Despite the fact that there are still some bold ideas to be found here. How many games emphasise training over combat? How many games let you just sit back and chat with another protagonist about sometimes trivial shit like cultural differences and such? Didn't see any of this mentioned in that IGN review though. (probably because he rushed through the game and slapped a number on it and moved on to the next game)...hell, there was no mention of the side quests in that review either.

Even with the budget, I'm still surprised to see some ambition in this game. Hell, even with the minimal budget, he still made a pseudo 3D open world game. That alone deserves to be praised in my books.

Amazing how that works.

Dated is a very cheap, lazy and tired criticism at times and it's selective at best.

 

[danielmann861]

I think the combat system has some good ideas and bases. I think a good idea would've been to tie every combo to the LT button + combination. This way, it would ensure basic moves wouldn't be so clunky.

Maybe...I still think a general tutorial outside of "Just hit the face buttons" would have helped as well...I have to wonder how many people actually discovered the L2 modifier in the first place? I haven't seen it mentioned in most reviews.

But yeah, I'm generally with you. Has some good ideas going for it but rough around the edges. Would love to see it refined and improved (if we get there)

 

[ShenmueForeseen]

I don't think you really understand what he was saying at all, your not just putting words into his mouth, your starting and finishing an entirely different conversation than what hes talking about and somehow getting offended by the topic you started.

Like man he wasnt even specifically talking about ign but modern perceptions overall let alone anything close to cod, the fuck you even on about.

Just because you don't understand my point doesn't make it wrong and I implore you to think harder about it before responding again.

IGN if they are to operate as a review site need to have consistenty in their assessment for reviewing games and their scorings. It is wrong to say 'ok so this game can be 8/10 but this other similar quality game should be 6/10 because... just because.'

If the author of that review is working for a website which gives hot garbage 8/10 then he should take that into account when dishing out scores for games. He can pretend he is making a stand by ignoring it and giving 'honest' scores instead but then he must becomes a separate entity who should disassociate himself from IGN and publish his own reviews.

 

[Reprise]

To be fair, at least IGN sometimes admit they're inconsistent.

They gave Deadly Premonition 2/10 when it was originally released and then gave the Director's Cut re-release 7/10.

 

[bcdcdude]

I wonder if IGN are getting revenge for the original Shenmue review they did years ago (wasn't there a massive controversy about their original review getting a 6.9 too??)

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

I wonder if IGN are getting revenge for the original Shenmue review they did years ago (wasn't there a massive controversy about their original review getting a 6.9 too??)

I think that was gamespot. IGN gave the original Shenmue a 9.7. But regardless, I don't think that would be the case anyways, especially since the staff is probably entirely different today.