Were you happier with no Shenmue III? Or do you prefer living in a post-Shenmue III world?

I personally have a very foriging and optimistic opinion of most games. My favorite games very much are not big sellers or even good with either critics or gamers alike.

The faults with Shenmue 3, personally, are all minor gripes and nitpicking. Regardless of your subjective opinion compared and/or contrasted to mine--I feel the great portions of the game far outweigh the shortcomings, objectively.

No question, better with Shenmue lll in the world than not. To be frank, bit of a silly question.
 
xatruio said:
Regardless of your subjective opinion compared and/or contrasted to mine--I feel the great portions of the game far outweigh the shortcomings, objectively.
Click to expand...
? All opinions are subjective. It's impossible to make this statement "objectively".

高野和泉 said:
I think mismanaged expectations on alot of people's mind
Click to expand...
I think the mismanaged expectations came largely from marketing. Ever since that first trailer, people have been making excuses for the character models and art direction, insisting everything would be better once the game was released. If they weren't up to snuff then they shouldn't have been such a focus of the trailer and/or the graphical fidelity should have been toned down.
 
Am Grateful that Shenmue 3 released. The nostalgia that it brought back from my younger years was unexpected and wonderful. I loved the game with its faults and short comings. I enjoyed every minute and did more of the small side activities in 3 then in past games.

With that said. I have done almost 3 playthroughs back to back. I understand the disappointment with the lack of story and sentiment that if 4 dosen't come out then it should have ended with 2. Because 2s ending was epic as hell.
IMO I loved 3s ending the first time around.
The second time I really liked it. The third I stopped at Mr Muscles. It brings back old memories playing shenmue 2 for the sixith time knowing that I have to wait or keep dreaming of a release.

With 3 out in the world Am hopeful we will get 4. Yu will be on point this time because he's an artist and
When artists have fan/peoples expectations its easy to get lost in trying to meet expectations, instead of doing their thing.
So am super grateful for Shenmue 3
 
GhostTrick said:
Poor reception from whom ?
Mainstream audience ? Sure.
Fans ? I dont think they had AAA level of expectations.
Click to expand...
Sure they did. You might want to look in the mirror if you don't believe me.

For example, you're constantly complaining about how much worse the cutscene direction is in Shenmue III than in its predecessors. What did you expect?! The first two Shenmue games literally had record-breaking budgets, with the best that 90s Sega had to offer working on them. Shenmue III is an indie game that was developed by a small team formed a few years ago using Kickstarter funds. And yet, you're over here directly comparing Shenmue III's cutscenes to Shenmue II's and lamenting how inferior their direction is, months after the fact.

So yes, some fans (such as yourself) clearly had their expectations set way too high and are still having trouble coping with or accepting the fact that they were being completely unrealistic.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm personally attacking you. That's not my intention. But I just can't help but find this statement incredibly ironic coming from you of all people.
 
B-Man said:
For example, you're constantly complaining about how much worse the cutscene direction is in Shenmue III than in its predecessors. What did you expect?! The first two Shenmue games literally had record-breaking budgets, with the best that 90s Sega had to offer working on them.
Click to expand...
Then they shouldn't have shot for the level of graphical fidelity that they did.

B-Man said:
Shenmue III is an indie game that was developed by a small team formed a few years ago using Kickstarter funds. And yet, you're over here directly comparing Shenmue III's cutscenes to Shenmue II's and lamenting how inferior their direction is, months after the fact.
Click to expand...
That explains why it has fewer cutscenes, not why they cutscenes that exist are not well directed or why the dialogue system features bizarre camera cuts and fades.
 
iknifaugood said:
That explains why it has fewer cutscenes, not why they cutscenes that exist are not well directed or why the dialogue system features bizarre camera cuts and fades.
Click to expand...
Then what does explain it, pray tell?

As a side note, I don't actually think that they're poorly directed. They're completely adequate in my opinion, even if they're not up to the ridiculously high standards set by Shenmue I and even more so by Shenmue II. In fact, some of them really exceeded my expectations for this game.
 
iknifaugood said:
? All opinions are subjective. It's impossible to make this statement "objectively".
Click to expand...

I'm saying all the complaints, to me, were trivial and never amounted to much more for me because I've alwasy been a very forgiving and optimistic gamer.

Despite being the same sentence, the point still stands--as seperated by double hyphen. Subjectively, I think the negatives are nothing. Most of us here like Shenmue enough to take time for posting on a fan site, played the original games and waited years to play Shen3; gonna say the worst about the game is outweighed by the good great portions of the game, which is what I feel is objectively true.
 
B-Man said:
Sure they did. You might want to look in the mirror if you don't believe me.

For example, you're constantly complaining about how much worse the cutscene direction is in Shenmue III than in its predecessors. What did you expect?! The first two Shenmue games literally had record-breaking budgets, with the best that 90s Sega had to offer working on them. Shenmue III is an indie game that was developed by a small team formed a few years ago using Kickstarter funds. And yet, you're over here directly comparing Shenmue III's cutscenes to Shenmue II's and lamenting how inferior their direction is, months after the fact.

So yes, some fans (such as yourself) clearly had their expectations set way too high and are still having trouble coping with or accepting the fact that they were being completely unrealistic.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm personally attacking you. That's not my intention. But I just can't help but find this statement incredibly ironic coming from you of all people.
Click to expand...




Cutscene direction isn't solely a budget thing. And yes, it's a fair comparison. Making cutscenes today isn't as expensive as it used to be.

Making Shenmue II cutscenes back then was expensive. Making Shenmue II cutscenes today isn't.

What you're telling me is the equivalent of saying "FFVII was really expensive back then. So if a game today has worse CGI cutscenes than FFVII, it's expected because it was a really expensive game".

So yeah, I clearly knew what to expect. Budget isn't the main explanation of everything and having the cutscene direction of II wouldn't make III a AAA game. I didn't ask for the cutscene quality of RDR2 or even any AAA game in the market. Just the one of a 20 years old game.


And no, Shenmue III isn't an indie title. It's a AA game. Developped by close to 50 people. Backed by a publisher. It's a budget of around 12 millions dollars. You're not in the indie territories anymore.
 
Last edited:
Im glad we got something over nothing. Since 3 was a disappointment, I'm not desperate for a new entry like I had been after 2.
 
A lot of fans seem to react more negatively to this game than reviewers. Its actually a good game just filled with around 10% of frustration with slow grinding and silly fan service bits which dont fit in and a poor ending. Otherwise its actually Overall a great game! I am glad for a world with shenmue 3!
 
GhostTrick said:
Cutscene direction isn't solely a budget thing.
Click to expand...

Oh it isnt? Could you tell me why please? I would like a proper breakdown, with examples of how this is so.

GhostTrick said:
And yes, it's a fair comparison. Making cutscenes today isn't as expensive as it used to be.
Click to expand...

Oh really? Cool. Could you provide me with some insight into the process of the development of that aspect of video gaming? Conception>execution>implementation would be enough, from your own experience of course? I mean, you clearly work in the industry right? Develop games at least.

GhostTrick said:
Making Shenmue II cutscenes back then was expensive. Making Shenmue II cutscenes today isn't.
Click to expand...

Guess i was wrong to presume. I didnt realise you worked on both the original games, as well as Shenmue 3. Or at least, worked on videogames 20 years ago, know the methodology inside out, and are able to compare it to game development in 2020?

GhostTrick said:
So yeah, I clearly knew what to expect. Budget isn't the main explanation of everything and having the cutscene direction of II wouldn't make III a AAA game. I didn't ask for the cutscene quality of RDR2 or even any AAA game in the market. Just the one of a 20 years old game.

And no, Shenmue III isn't an indie title. It's a AA game. Developped by close to 50 people. Backed by a publisher. It's a budget of around 12 millions dollars. You're not in the indie territories anymore.
Click to expand...

I was just going to flat out hit the warn button, but i will just quote some of your post, and wait, to see if you reveal yourself as an original member of AM2. You certainly talk the talk, or at least talk the talk of a game developer.

But lets be honest and clear here; i am absolutely, 100% fed up of you coming into so many topics on these forums and just taking a massive shit, not only on the game, but on the development of this game, and the people that actually enjoy it. When people disagree with your negative viewpoints, you speak down to them with nothing but descent. No middle ground. No appreciating where they are coming from. It's your way or the highway, and i for one have had enough.

Read that sentence again, i mean...

GhostTrick said:
I didn't ask for the cutscene quality of RDR2 or even any AAA game in the market. Just the one of a 20 years old game.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but what bollocks is this? Is that a sentence we are all to understand? Who the hell cares about what you asked for in cut scene quality? Who the hell cares about what you want in general? Even if your demands were entertained, you want the cut scene quality "of a 20 years old game."? What?

I am going to make this very crystal clear: Stop typing words just to give yourself a sense of superiority over others on these boards. For the absolute last time, this ends now, and there will be no more verbal guidance. You will be warned. If you cannot see the arrogance in your communication with others on these forums, then there is pretty much nothing else anyone can do around here to help.
 
Peter said:
Oh it isnt? Could you tell me why please? I would like a proper breakdown, with examples of how this is so.



Oh really? Cool. Could you provide me with some insight into the process of the development of that aspect of video gaming? Conception>execution>implementation would be enough, from your own experience of course? I mean, you clearly work in the industry right? Develop games at least.



Guess i was wrong to presume. I didnt realise you worked on both the original games, as well as Shenmue 3. Or at least, worked on videogames 20 years ago, know the methodology inside out, and are able to compare it to game development in 2020?



I was just going to flat out hit the warn button, but i will just quote some of your post, and wait, to see if you reveal yourself as an original member of AM2. You certainly talk the talk, or at least talk the talk of a game developer.

But lets be honest and clear here; i am absolutely, 100% fed up of you coming into so many topics on these forums and just taking a massive shit, not only on the game, but on the development of this game, and the people that actually enjoy it. When people disagree with your negative viewpoints, you speak down to them with nothing but descent. No middle ground. No appreciating where they are coming from. It's your way or the highway, and i for one have had enough.

Read that sentence again, i mean...



Sorry, but what bollocks is this? Is that a sentence we are all to understand? Who the hell cares about what you asked for in cut scene quality? Who the hell cares about what you want in general? Even if your demands were entertained, you want the cut scene quality "of a 20 years old game."? What?

I am going to make this very crystal clear: Stop typing words just to give yourself a sense of superiority over others on these boards. For the absolute last time, this ends now, and there will be no more verbal guidance. You will be warned. If you cannot see the arrogance in your communication with others on these forums, then there is pretty much nothing else anyone can do around here to help.
Click to expand...



Alright, I'll adress each of your points one by one:

About the costs:
You're right, I'm not a dev. I dont need to be one either to tell you, because the tools are where they are today, you can achieve things today that were more expensive and difficult to achieve before.

Hence my FFVII exemple: Rendering that CGI quality back then required a LOT MORE work, money and compute power than you would need today. In fact, FFVII CGI today would look like a joke that most people would be able to achieve. That's because tools have matured.

I didn't mean that, in general, making cutscenes today is cheaper than it used to be. I meant that, hence my exemple, that doing cutscenes of the fidelity and level of Shenmue II, a game released 20 years ago, is far easier today than it was 20 years ago.

Do I need to be a dev to say that ? Aren't there enough games out there that speaks volume about that and that clearly dont have the budget Shenmue II had ? Is it really that crazy to claim that tools today allows you to do things possible before for cheaper and faster ?


As for Cutscene direction not being only a matter of budget :
Tell me again what's crazy here ? I didn't say "It's not a budget issue if you dont have good cutscenes". I said it's not SOLELY about budget. Other factors come into place. The direction for instance. The choice you make for camera placement and such.

As for your last point about "Who the hell asked me".
Well, unfortunately, the person I replied to decided to take ME as an exemple. Claiming that MY expectations were out of proportions on the matter of cutscenes for instance.

So yeah, hence why I adressed MY expectations since it's a point that user raised.


As for the rest of your accusations, me being arrogant, mean, awful and what not, I'm just adopting the tone of the person I reply to. If someone is civil with me, I'm civil with them. If someone isn't, I try to remain civil as I did before. If someone is talking me down, I talk them down too.

If you felt hurt by my posts or my opinions, I'm sorry, that wasn't the intention here. Debates can get heated but I feel like I did my best to remain civil. I dont think I talked down on someone or insulted anyone. In fact I think I did a fairly good job to not reply with insults to insults adressed to me.

For instance, your very own post here.

Now, if you wish, you can warn me or ban me. I wont stop having my opinions on those matters though. And I feel like it's the interest of discussions. Discussing the core matters. If you disagree with my point about cutscene direction, I'm willing to hear your thoughts on the matter and if possible, that you demonstrate with exemples why and how you think it's great.

Because yeah, so far, the complaints I'm getting is that I tried to back up my claims with exemples.
 
Double post since it'd be lost in a wall of text:
Because yeah, saying "fans who disliked it just had overblown expectations" surely isn't talking someone down.

Being told that you're at fault for not loving it is fine too.
 
B-Man said:
Then what does explain it, pray tell?

As a side note, I don't actually think that they're poorly directed. They're completely adequate in my opinion, even if they're not up to the ridiculously high standards set by Shenmue I and even more so by Shenmue II. In fact, some of them really exceeded my expectations for this game.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say they're bad per se, but I agree that they're a far cry from what we got from the series before from both a storytelling (which mostly falls on the lack of story) as well as a music/editing perspective. The direction of the action oriented cutscenes was pretty good but imo anything involving exposition or dialogue was pretty flat and uninteresting. But, I mean, cutscenes are a pretty important thing to get right in a game like Shenmue and S3 is very uneven (that ending cutscene, yeesh...).

Peter said:
Oh it isnt? Could you tell me why please? I would like a proper breakdown, with examples of how this is so.
Click to expand...

UE4's Sequencer is actually really great and user friendly as long as you have the proper assets, especially animations. And we know the S3 team had several of the animation assets since many of the fighting animations are unchanged since the 2017 teaser trailer.

Peter said:
Oh really? Cool. Could you provide me with some insight into the process of the development of that aspect of video gaming? Conception>execution>implementation would be enough, from your own experience of course? I mean, you clearly work in the industry right? Develop games at least
Click to expand...
I can provide insight into how it usually goes (which is basically the same as a movie: storyboard> rough cut> polish) but I can't provide insight into how it worked on S3, like how/when/why the location of fighting Mr. Muscles changed. But no, cutscenes aren't hard to implement, the "hard" part (and the reason most indie games don't use them) is getting the assets; if you have the locations, character models, dialogue, story beats, and animations then you're like 90% of the way there. Just plan out your cameras, timing, and lighting (which is largely derived from the location) and you're good.

For reference:


This is two character models standing pretty still around a tree. All these assets (minus the flashback) exist in S3; it would've been very easy for them to make this cutscene in UE4.

What's hard is making this moment. When I first saw this cutscene in S2 it felt like the biggest thing that ever happened and all it was was the name of a tree. But the combination of the pacing, the story, the characters, and the quality of the cutscene really made the moment stick. S3 lacks moments like this, not necessarily cutscenes, and that's a fair criticism.

Did you know that S3 confirms that there are multiple Shenmue trees? You know how it does it? In a journal entry...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top