What a disappointment

S

Shenkuza

Joined
Nov 10, 2019
MOD NOTE:

I moving all of these "I hate/dislike shenmue 3 etc threads" into one one place. You're free to discuss all of that here in this thread

Do NOT keep making threads about the same subject all over the forum. And do NOT post such threads in the general Shenmue 3 forums. Others are still playing the game fresh and don't need that kind of stuff rubbed in their face which may affect their 1st playthrough of the game. People who continue to make these threads all over the forum will have appropriate action taken against them.

Also, although i hear and understand some of your concerns about the story and other elements, some of the behavior ive seen on this forum over the last few days has been disgusting and extremely toxic. This will not be a forum of outrage and hysteria. Try and keep the hyperbolic comments in check and be civil in your discussions.

Thanks

Let's get the positives out of the way.
The gameplay is outstanding! Running around as ryo searching for clues, gaining money, playing mini games and the fighting is superb. It's everything i ever imagined shenmue 3 would be.

The fighting actually really surprised me. I thought it was going to be awful. Sure the first 2 games were fun to look at but they were really just button mashers. 3 is more challenging and fun.

I actually feel that it has the best voice acting in the series. It's still bad, but better. (Except ren. Felt like his new voice actor destroyed the character)

As for the bad? Qtes do not give you enough time and then there's the story, or lack of.
Nothing happens... nothing at all. To summarize the story ryo fights thugs, can't win, then runs errands for a kung fu master to learn skill to win. Repeat again and then an anti climatic ending.

Massive mistakes were made in the story. Not fighting chai as the bailu village finale was a huge flaw. Not fighting niao sun as the final boss (or whatever her name is) also a huge flaw. No real conversation between ryo and lan di before the fight? I was more concerned about the conversation between ryo and lan di before the fight than i was the fight itself which was also disappointing. Not because lan di won but because the game didn't even give you a real fight.

The game felt as if in shenmue 1 having to look for Charlie turning into a padded stretch of 40 hours.

I don't feel ripped off. Ys made exactly what was promised. But damn..... the lack of story or lore explanation is really disappointing. To be fair i never expected shenmue 3 to progress the story, but rather to explain away all the questions. Neither were accomplished.
 
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I was always under the impression the chapters were written decades ago though so if III covers only so many chapter of a rising arc then why are so many people surprised. There's more to come I wouldnt want him cutting stuff up. But then again there's the uncertainty of it continuing but its in better shape now in terms of continuing than it was in 2002 thats for sure.

 
Shenkuza said:
Agreed. But no matter when the story was written, it's disappointing.
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but its just part of the story its not the complete story.

Anyways I never really played this for the story or expecting a super deep one.

That said, I liked the conversations in this game. Especially with Shenhua and the telephone calls were a nice addition
 
Shenmue 1 and 2 were also just a piece of the story and not the complete story but told solid stories. After playing shenmue 1 I felt like I knew a lot about the story and the lore. After finishing shenmue 2 I felt like I knew even more about the story and the lore. After finishing shenmue 3 I still know the exact amount I knew at the end of the second one. The story might as well had started with someone telling Ryo "landi is in that building over there but you won't be able to get in because the door is locked so spend the next 40 hours trying to find someone who knows where to get a key." Ryo obtains the key, goes in there and losses as expected and runs away and the credits roll
 
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Well according to the original kickstart, the 3 chapters we were supposed to get had been Bailu, Baisha & Choubu. Instead, we got Bailu & Niaowu. So plans clearly changed mid development, so must have the story.

I'm also surprised people enjoy the new fighting mechanics more. I thought the battle mechanics in S1&2 was much more fleshed out. S3 feels a lot more button meshing to me. Although, I didn't play on hard difficulty, so that might be it.
 
Shenkuza said:
I don't feel ripped off. Ys made exactly what was promised. But damn..... the lack of story or lore explanation is really disappointing. To be fair i never expected shenmue 3 to progress the story, but rather to explain away all the questions. Neither were accomplished.
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I never expected ALL the answers in Bailu...I don't think you'll get all the answers until either Shenmue IV or Meng Cun (if we ever get there) where it actually happened.

Technically we did get some things. We did get the history of the mirrors. We did find out why, who and when they were crafted for. We got a confirmation of the vauge clue we were told by Zhu at the end of the 2nd game. He only really gave us the vauge clue that the mirrors were the key to a treasure. III pretty much confirmed it (or did it?) and gave us the history of the mirrors.

And we did in the end get a setup for the power struggle between Niao Sun and Lan Di.

Thinking about it, we are retracing Iwao's steps so technically I don't think we'll get the full picture until Meng Cun.

I think its shortcomings are that it's stretching a relatively simple plot for too long. A similar problem the first game had with pacing. Coming from Shenmue II where the pacing was pretty much non stop, Shenmue III has more in common with the first game in terms of dogged pacing.

I don't think its perfect...but there is indeed more added to the lore in terms of the history of the mirrors.

I think the disappointment that most people are having with it is somewhat overblown expectations that we were gonna get more than we thought we would. Now that I've had some time to process it, I've come to realize that this is all setup for what is to come in IV. We're literally on our way to the headquarters of the Chi You Men...which is where I presume we will begin to meet the other bosses. Namely Xiuying's brother.

I think the disappointment is simply from the expectation that this stuff was gonna happen in III and now we have to wait for a chapter that may or may not come.

But on reflection and now that I've had some time to process it, I actually appreciate some of what III was trying to do...it's not perfect by any means. I think the story gets lost towards the end and I think some characters go underdeveloped, but the more I think about it, the more it lingers. Especially the first half of the game. I can't stress how much I loved Bailu on a very intimate level. Iwao's presence is all over Bailu...even if we don't get much history from Grandmaster Feng, his presence still lingers all over Bailu.

And I absolutely loved my time with Shenhua and how it showed a different side to Ryo. For Ryo, those conversations did show a lot of development as he was no longer a emotionally closed down human, rather he was willing to share with her and let her in a little. Or if you completely ignored those conversations, you could still craft your brimming with hatred version of Ryo. I truly appreciate what this game is trying to do in letting the player make Ryo their own...but at the end of the game....one thing is true. Ryo still demonstrates what Xiuying said about him is true...he only has two of the WUDE.

He hasn't let all four principles sink in. If anything is true, Ryo is still just brimming with his need for vengeance...he still hasn't let it sink in that this is greater than his need for vengeance...and I don't think it will sink into until an actual solid revelation is revealed. That's why I think what Xiuying said about him is 100% true. He only has two of the WUDE. III was confirmation of that. He has Gon and Yi but he lacks the other two.

My disappointment is gone and in place is a fascination of what III was conveying through its gameplay. I've been thinking about it trying to write a review and the more I think about it, the more I realize the wild ambition is still here...even with its shortcomings in terms of its narrative.

Considering we're only 40% into the narrative. Yes, some of it feels like filler and recap. The big twist with Niao Sun is weak...there's no denying that. And the ending does feel rushed. The stakes never felt quite as high as they did climbing the Yellow Head Tower and that's slightly disappointing.

But still, that aside, it does progress the plot a little and plants the seeds for what is to come. We now know the history of the mirrors. We now know there is a power struggle ongoing in the Chi You Men. We now know a little more about Lan Di. It's all about setting up what is to come. I think the disappointment we have is we expected other stuff in III when maybe that was never the intended case.


By all means, it's not perfect...but the more I think about it...the more it lingers. That's the problem with the journey we're on. We're still no closer to getting all of the answers...and now we have to wonder whether we will even get to the next chapter considering it took us 18 years to get here.
 
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Shenkuza said:
Shenmue 1 and 2 were also just a piece of the story and not the complete story but told solid stories. After playing shenmue 1 I felt like I knew a lot about the story and the lore. After finishing shenmue 2 I felt like I knew even more about the story and the lore. After finishing shenmue 3 I still know the exact amount I knew at the end of the second one. The story might as well had started with someone telling Ryo "landi is in that building over there but you won't be able to get in because the door is locked so spend the next 40 hours trying to find someone who knows where to get a key." Ryo obtains the key, goes in there and losses as expected and runs away and the credits roll
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I wouldn't use Yakuza as an example.
First off, the game's first six stories wasn't prewritten before the first game came out nor were they planned to be despite telling the story of Kiryu over the years.
 
Xanatus said:
Well according to the original kickstart, the 3 chapters we were supposed to get had been Bailu, Baisha & Choubu. Instead, we got Bailu & Niaowu. So plans clearly changed mid development, so must have the story.

I'm also surprised people enjoy the new fighting mechanics more. I thought the battle mechanics in S1&2 was much more fleshed out. S3 feels a lot more button meshing to me. Although, I didn't play on hard difficulty, so that might be it.
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Interesting because thats the criticism I see people saying about the original Shenmue fighting engine (button mashing)
Typically people that dont know how to play Virtua Fighter series though, will button mash. Just like Tekken.
But Tekken has that dial a combo system so sometimes button mashing will pay off until you get to someone who knows what they're doing. VF has only 2 attack buttons and one block but it plays very quickly and pokes work very well. VF is known to be 'easy to learn hard to master'.
Shenmue had a lot of move scrolls so it was often easy to forget what each move's input was so people would just..button mash.
With VF, you have more time to learn those moves obviously since its not a time based RPG. And they have tutorials.
VF3 added a dodge button. Thats why Shenmue 1 and 2 had a 4 button system; punch, kick, block, dodge. Because it was modeled after VF3. But both games use predominately 2D plane of movement with the dodge mechanic being the 3D movement. Of course in Shenmue 1 at the 70 man kumite, you could run as well but once you started fighting you didnt have full 3D movement.
Seichi Ishii was the game designer for the first Virtua Fighter and also the first Tekken.
When he moved on to make his own company and made Tobal #1, he took what he learned from both games and added newer mechanics, making Tobal #1 the first true 3D fighter around that time in terms of full 3D movement. Tekken 2 and VF2 was still 2.5D and as I mentioned, VF3 was only really 3D when you used the dodge button which Shenmue also did in ts battle mode.
This game has 3D movement but you walk around your opponent similar to the Circle Walk (Rooster Step) drills in this game. Double tap the left analog to evade, L2 to block, R2 is a hotkey for preset specials which can be toggled via L1 or R1. Two punch buttons, two kick buttons. No throws. No health regeneration (other than Snake Powder bottles in tournaments).
No throws is weird though. Sound effects for punches is better in this game. Makes for some hilarious moments.
I miss the slow motion K.O.'s though.
Evading in this is not as quick as Shenmue 1 & 2.
Training gives you more power as your attack, endurance and overal power increase.
Otherwise you'll get owned pretty quickly in this game.
Playing on harder difficulties you will have to quickly adjust to not button mash though as the opponents will easily block those moves they see coming. This is where evading works because you hit them in their weak angles.
 
Shenkuza said:
And i wouldn't use halo as an example because the master chief has a gun
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what

Shenkuza said:
... what?...
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When Yakuza was initially made in 2005, they didnt have 'Six chapters prewritten with the notion of making 6 games about Kiryu's story'. They made each story as it was its own story. Its own game. It wasnt 'broken up'.
Once the series started rolling, then they would work on tying things in more like the cliffhanger of Kiryu at the end of Yakuza 3, which led into Yakuza 4, and also later again another cliffhanger at the end of Yakuza 5 which led into Yakuza 6.
But for the most part, their stories were written as they were making said games and like I said, they werent prewritten back in 2005.

Shenmue's story was already completed years ago on paper. The games just have to catch up now.
 
Shenkuza said:
I expected all questions answered and new questions asked to lead into shenmue 4
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Then that's your own expectations, but considering no one knew Iwao was dead in Bailu that should have been your first tip off that the answers you seek are not in this chapter. The answers that lie in Bailu pertained to the mirrors and the mirrors alone.

Like I said, I don't think we'll get the full story until either the next game or when we inevitably get to Meng Cun where it actually happened (if we get there)

For better or worse, it's drip feeding us.
 
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