What do you expect to be retconned

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Nov 23, 2019
I’d be more surprised if they got rid of them all. Whilst I’m hoping that they move through the story at a fairly brisk pace, the 70 man battle and the raid of the yellow head building are two of the biggest set piece moments in the series and I don’t see how either could work without their respective gangs being introduced.

The red snakes, on the other hand, could probably be replaced with generic CYM black suits and it wouldn’t really make much difference.
Yea that's more what I meant. Basically I don't think they will repeat the "Ryo travels to a new location and has to defeat the local thugs" formula, especially because, as a show, it's going to require fewer "obstacles" and more "characters". I could see them avoiding the Mad Angels and focusing on Chai being the impediment to Ryo's journey depending on how possible it is to animate a 70 man battle lol.
 
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Jul 28, 2018
I really don’t see a way to ignore the Mad Angels and Yellowheads and maintain the same continuity as the games.
You'd lose that undercurrent of danger, especially in the Shenmue 1 section. Also the whole reason Ryo gets a job is to provoke the Mad Angels, and I almost guarantee there will be a forklift segment, even if it's as quick as "Ryo gets job / cut to him moving boxes / cut to him being harassed".

Technically they could change it so he gets the job to earn money for a plane ticket, but the fact Ryo gets a free boat trip at the end would make that a poor change to make.

Also, Master Chen is more willing to help Ryo because the Mad Angels are a problem for him, too. So yeah, I'm sure they could find ways around it if they really wanted to, but the gangs are pretty important.
 
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You'd lose that undercurrent of danger, especially in the Shenmue 1 section. Also the whole reason Ryo gets a job is to provoke the Mad Angels, and I almost guarantee there will be a forklift segment, even if it's as quick as "Ryo gets job / cut to him moving boxes / cut to him being harassed".

Technically they could change it so he gets the job to earn money for a plane ticket, but the fact Ryo gets a free boat trip at the end would make that a poor change to make.

Also, Master Chen is more willing to help Ryo because the Mad Angels are a problem for him, too. So yeah, I'm sure they could find ways around it if they really wanted to, but the gangs are pretty important.
It depends on how they structure the series. If they want to present S1 as Ryo leaving the relative safety of his hometown, then it might make sense to omit the 70+ man gang that terrorizes the harbor. Plus they don't need to follow the games exactly; they could add new characters for Ryo to butt heads against--I could easily see them focusing on Ryo's school life with his friends/teachers/whoever trying to care for him, but maybe there's a new character who's a big asshole to him? Who knows? IMO S1 would work perfectly as a low-stakes character story where Ryo makes the fateful decision to pursue revenge against the wishes of everyone who has his best interest in mind, and then S2 contrasts against that by having him be a stranger in a strange land with violent gangs etc. The anime will be much more focused on the story so they'll necessarily have to change things to make it work.
 
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It depends on how they structure the series. If they want to present S1 as Ryo leaving in the relative safety of his hometown, then it might make sense to omit the 70+ man gang that terrorizes the harbor. Plus they don't need to follow the games exactly; they could add new characters for Ryo to butt heads against--I could easily see them focusing on Ryo's school life with his friends/teachers/whoever trying to care for him, but maybe there's a new character who's a big asshole to him? Who knows? IMO S1 would work perfectly as a low-stakes character story where Ryo makes the fateful decision to pursue revenge against the wishes of everyone who has his best interest in mind, and then S2 contrasts against that by having him be a stranger in a strange land with violent gangs etc. The anime will be much more focused on the story so they'll necessarily have to change things to make it work.
I did wonder whether Akio might play a larger role in the anime, but it might feel a little anti-climactic to be introduced to to an international cartel of criminals only to then have Ryo revert back to scrapping with the school bully.

Besides, the 70 man battle is one of the few high-stakes set piece moments contained within Shenmue 1’s narrative, so I’d be surprised if they opted to skip over it in favor of a rivalry with a 1 dimensional character where nothing besides pride is really on the line. The first few episodes need to set the tone of the series, after all.
 
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I did wonder whether Akio might play a larger role in the anime, but it might feel a little anti-climactic to be introduced to to an international cartel of criminals only to then have Ryo revert back to scrapping with the school bully.

Besides, the 70 man battle is one of the few high-stakes set piece moments contained within Shenmue 1’s narrative, so I’d be surprised if they opted to skip over it in favor of a rivalry with a 1 dimensional character where nothing besides pride is really on the line. The first few episodes need to set the tone of the series, after all.
Agreed, that conflict will be there as it is the climax of one major arc, but probably it will be simplified as it could be quite silly to have Ryo beat 70people in anime to then in a few episodes in Hong Kong be beaten by fewer people if they need it for plot/pacing reasons.
 
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Nov 23, 2019
I did wonder whether Akio might play a larger role in the anime, but it might feel a little anti-climactic to be introduced to to an international cartel of criminals only to then have Ryo revert back to scrapping with the school bully.

Besides, the 70 man battle is one of the few high-stakes set piece moments contained within Shenmue 1’s narrative, so I’d be surprised if they opted to skip over it in favor of a rivalry with a 1 dimensional character where nothing besides pride is really on the line. The first few episodes need to set the tone of the series, after all.
They might even expand Terry's role, but it's important to remember that the 70-man battle is the climax of the game, it will likely be around the midpoint (or earlier) of the anime so it doesn't serve quite the same function. I'm not saying it's definitely gonna be cut, it just wouldn't surprise me. Even the early seasons of Game of Thrones had to cut major battles/factions due to budget/time restraints.

I would bet that we actually get introduced to Ryo and his crew before Iwao's murder (with that being the end of the first episode) because they're definitely going to need to characterize Ryo a little better, depends what they focus on and how they tell the story. Ryo (like most game characters) is a very passive protagonist, I would be surprised if they keep the story exclusively to his perspective.
 
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If it’s 13 episodes

5 episodes takes place in Yokosuka
-We need the opening scene
-We need the interactions with Harasaki and Fuku-san
-We need Master Chen and Guizhang and the fight against the Made Angels

6 episodes takes place in Hong Kong/Kowloon
-Maybe the lost boat chapter can be included
-Mostly focus on Joy, Rens, and the Heavens
-The initial search for Xiuying
-Then the search for Zhu Yuanda
-I’m assuming Ryo doing the Man Mo Temple chores will be montaged

last 2 episodes takes place in Guilin where he meets Shenhua
 
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Oct 31, 2019
I'm not sure retcon is the right term here as I'd be surprised the show radically changes the fundamentals of the story, especially if it's mostly only covering the first game.

I can definitely see the show changing some of the minor plot points and pacing, and maybe even expanding upon others and giving the characters more depth and room to breath. At least I hope it does.

This is an adaptation and what works in a game doesn't necessarily work in TV. The show can still loosely follow the same plot but change its execution to suit a TV show's pacing and storytelling.
 

Truck_1_0_1_

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Hold up; wasn't this supposed to explore other stories/setpieces OUTSIDE of the main game's stories/setpieces? Why should anything be retconned? Just show it in abridged format or retell it at a later time.
 
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Will the more mystical elements be retconned?

No floating swords or fortune telling?

Goat or deer? Maybe a dog this time.

I think they will have to retcon Ryo's stoicism. It's an anime so, that'd be very hard to pull off, unlike a game where there is player agency. They kind of have to actually give Ryo a more outward personality.

Think of the persona anime, the MCs always have much more personality than in the games, which have silent protagonists because, a silent protagonist in film is very difficult to convey.

So... What I'm saying is, Ryo and Joy have to kiss.


If it just covers Shenmue 1(lets hope so, because 13 ep Isn't enough to do 2), I don't think so. 13 episodes should be enough to do everything they want, and I don't see anything in 1 that screams retcon material.

They might change Ryo, but while It's rare, anime has done stoic characters before. Well known anime at that, Kaze no Stigma, and Clannad are prime examples.

If it tries to cover 2 however, the last thing we'll need to worry about is retconning, because nearly everything will have to be outright cut altogether.
 
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Hold up; wasn't this supposed to explore other stories/setpieces OUTSIDE of the main game's stories/setpieces? Why should anything be retconned? Just show it in abridged format or retell it at a later time.
I think it's mainly a retelling, but will include some cut content/expand upon certain aspects. But I agree, I don't think we need to worry about retcons.
If it just covers Shenmue 1(lets hope so, because 13 ep Isn't enough to do 2), I don't think so.
It's covering "most" of Shenmue II. I'm almost certain I saw one of the producers confirm this on Twitter (but old Twitter posts are impossible to find).
If it tries to cover 2 however, the last thing we'll need to worry about is retconning, because nearly everything will have to be outright cut altogether.
What is so complex about Shenmue II's story that means "nearly everything" would need to be cut to fit into six or seven 25 minute episodes? That's 2.5 to 3 hours worth of content, give or take -- longer than your average feature film.

They're not just going to transpose every single interaction from the games into the anime. It'd be impossible. We need to get used to the idea of the story being streamlined, lesser characters being cut, etc. because it's going to happen.
 
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Nov 23, 2019
What is so complex about Shenmue II's story that means "nearly everything" would need to be cut to fit into six or seven 25 minute episodes? That's 2.5 to 3 hours worth of content, give or take -- longer than your average feature film.

They're not just going to transpose every single interaction from the games into the anime. It'd be impossible. We need to get used to the idea of the story being streamlined, lesser characters being cut, etc. because it's going to happen.
They could honestly fit both games into one season no problem. I could see them wanting to reserve Guilin for season 2 simply because it extends more naturally to S3 and beyond (the only thing is that it'd be nice to introduce Shenhua if they decide to show the poem). When you think about how they will need to break up the story into episodic chunks it becomes really easy to imagine the structure of it and just how much can be fit into 25 minutes. I actually think the story is going to end up feeling far more substantial, rather than cut back.
 
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Nov 16, 2019
Ryo needing to learn the body check TWICE because he got beat up by a random buff dude TWICE and needing to spend an ungodly amount of money to do so TWICE.

They probably won't get to Shenmue 3 in the first season, but I really do think they'll probably retcon THAT nonsense out if they get to Shenmue 3 in a second season. Assuming one happens.
 
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I think it's mainly a retelling, but will include some cut content/expand upon certain aspects. But I agree, I don't think we need to worry about retcons.

It's covering "most" of Shenmue II. I'm almost certain I saw one of the producers confirm this on Twitter (but old Twitter posts are impossible to find).

What is so complex about Shenmue II's story that means "nearly everything" would need to be cut to fit into six or seven 25 minute episodes? That's 2.5 to 3 hours worth of content, give or take -- longer than your average feature film.

They're not just going to transpose every single interaction from the games into the anime. It'd be impossible. We need to get used to the idea of the story being streamlined, lesser characters being cut, etc. because it's going to happen.


Oh boy, this is going to be a disaster.

Did you noy play Shenmue 2? It's a very long game, with a metric ton of major story events. I'm not even talking about the extra stuff the player can trigger(which it would be ashame not to be in it, but anyway).

Telling a story in a anime, it's not like just roughly pointing out story points that you jotted down on a single piece of paper. A insane amount of things happen in Shenmue 2. Infact so much so, if you rush through it, without using glitches/bugs, it will still take like 12h to beat. You can perhaps slip down book carrying with a montage, but not so with most of the other events.
 

spud1897

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Oh boy, this is going to be a disaster.

Did you noy play Shenmue 2? It's a very long game, with a metric ton of major story events. I'm not even talking about the extra stuff the player can trigger(which it would be ashame not to be in it, but anyway).

Telling a story in a anime, it's not like just roughly pointing out story points that you jotted down on a single piece of paper. A insane amount of things happen in Shenmue 2. Infact so much so, if you rush through it, without using glitches/bugs, it will still take like 12h to beat. You can perhaps slip down book carrying with a montage, but not so with most of the other events.
I think we need to stop assuming it will be a disaster. Ok that's your opinion but until it's actually released let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm no Anime expert, I know shit all about it but we don't even know how long episodes will be yet.

Shenmue II story that could be slimmed down:
  • Book carrying
  • Meeting Ren, you could lose the lucky plaza scene and it wouldn't make a huge difference IMO
  • Money issues
  • Street fights, lose that or maybe have 1/2 key fights
  • Stalking Yuan
  • Storming the yellow head, how important is it that Ryo is seen on every floor. You need Baihu that's a must and the rooftop.
None of us are directors, they will have an idea of what they're doing. If it comes out and sucks that's fair enough but rather than dictating what they should be doing why not let them interpret this in the way that want to.

If done well it could easily attract new people to the franchise. I get the concerns but it's not a forgone conclusion that it will be good or bad.
 
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I think we need to stop assuming it will be a disaster. Ok that's your opinion but until it's actually released let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm no Anime expert, I know shit all about it but we don't even know how long episodes will be yet.

Shenmue II story that could be slimmed down:
  • Book carrying
  • Meeting Ren, you could lose the lucky plaza scene and it wouldn't make a huge difference IMO
  • Money issues
  • Street fights, lose that or maybe have 1/2 key fights
  • Stalking Yuan
  • Storming the yellow head, how important is it that Ryo is seen on every floor. You need Baihu that's a must and the rooftop.
None of us are directors, they will have an idea of what they're doing. If it comes out and sucks that's fair enough but rather than dictating what they should be doing why not let them interpret this in the way that want to.

If done well it could easily attract new people to the franchise. I get the concerns but it's not a forgone conclusion that it will be good or bad.


Having money issues, without showing the main reason money is a issue?

What's the point of even having ren, if there's no character developement going on. 13 episodes Isn't really enough if you just focus on Ryo, and now you're trying to squize ren in there. To not atleast have the excape scenario when when and Ryo are handcuffed together would be criminal

As for episode length, does it even matter. Even if they were 1h long each, that still wouldn't be enough. ect ect

Yea yea I'm sorry, but my line of thinking, is I rather not have something, then to have a thing that's trash. I hope they aren't hinging shenmue 4, on rather or not this does well.


If Sega wants to run their little scam/money grab fine, but I better never hear anyone bring this anime up in debates about popularity or debates about how successful the shenmue ip in ingeneral is/could be. I know people are just going to use this doomed anime, to bash Shenmue.
 

spud1897

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Having money issues, without showing the main reason money is a issue?

What's the point of even having ren, if there's no character developement going on. 13 episodes Isn't really enough if you just focus on Ryo, and now you're trying to squize ren in there. To not atleast have the excape scenario when when and Ryo are handcuffed together would be criminal

As for episode length, does it even matter. Even if they were 1h long each, that still wouldn't be enough. ect ect

Yea yea I'm sorry, but my line of thinking, is I rather not have something, then to have a thing that's trash. I hope they aren't hinging shenmue 4, on rather or not this does well.


If Sega wants to run their little scam/money grab fine, but I better never hear anyone bring this anime up in debates about popularity or debates about how successful the shenmue ip in ingeneral is/could be. I know people are just going to use this doomed anime, to bash Shenmue.
Money issues, who says it even needs to be in the Anime. Do we need to see Ryo working to get money to meet Ren? Why can't he beat his way into the hideout?

If episodes were an hour how do you know what character development may or may not take place. They could easily depict Ren as a con-man, ask Ryo to meet him at place X and he gets jumped. Then it leads into going to Kowloon.

Let them interpret the story as they need to.

If its trash then fine I'll hold my hands up but it's hardly being rushed or a cash grab. It was greenlit just after Shenmue III released so has been worked on for a year near enough already.

The guy who is the lead on the project has played the games himself


He's also commented that you don't need the same amount of time on screen as you do in a game to convey a message. Whether that's true remains to be seen:

Yu Suzuki is an executive producer. It's being animated by a Sega Owned studio. The dude I've quoted has even commented he was the one who got this greenlit. So while it may generate money it was originally an idea by a fan. Also it must have some traction/interest as the announcement trended on Twitter here in the UK and USA. This has, IMO the right people behind it to make sure it's faithful to the story but can be expressed in the format chosen.

It's also been talked about in the community for years as a possible story telling medium. As long as it doesn't overtake the games and is good then bring it on.

Shenmue 4 isn't tied to it. If this is successful and improves the chances of Shenmue 4 then great.

Your view is your view and I respect that. Maybe give them a chance.
 
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Joined
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Money issues, who says it even needs to be in the Anime. Do we need to see Ryo working to get money to meet Ren? Why can't he beat his way into the hideout?

If episodes were an hour how do you know what character development may or may not take place. They could easily depict Ren as a con-man, ask Ryo to meet him at place X and he gets jumped. Then it leads into going to Kowloon.

Let them interpret the story as they need to.

If its trash then fine I'll hold my hands up but it's hardly being rushed or a cash grab. It was greenlit just after Shenmue III released so has been worked on for a year near enough already.

The guy who is the lead on the project has played the games himself


He's also commented that you don't need the same amount of time on screen as you do in a game to convey a message. Whether that's true remains to be seen:

Yu Suzuki is an executive producer. It's being animated by a Sega Owned studio. The dude I've quoted has even commented he was the one who got this greenlit. So while it may generate money it was originally an idea by a fan. Also it must have some traction/interest as the announcement trended on Twitter here in the UK and USA. This has, IMO the right people behind it to make sure it's faithful to the story but can be expressed in the format chosen.

It's also been talked about in the community for years as a possible story telling medium. As long as it doesn't overtake the games and is good then bring it on.

Shenmue 4 isn't tied to it. If this is successful and improves the chances of Shenmue 4 then great.

Your view is your view and I respect that. Maybe give them a chance.

Sure that's a valid claim(about not needing as much screen time), but 13 episode is never a valid number for any story too big to fit a movie format. However this Isn't any type of story, to makes matters worse, It's a wuxia, you can't fit a wuxia, even the simple ones(which shenmue is more complex then what would be considered simple), into 13 episodes.

For ref, wuxia live action shows are always 45min, so lets go with that, wuxia series average between 30-40 episodes, with the shorter ones only being a few episodes shy of 30(oddly enough the one most like Shenmue, is 50 episodes, but that's a completed series, and stories can differ alittle, so for benefit of the doubt, lets assume the lower, 26-30 episodes).

That's still way more then 13 episodes can pull off. Wuxias can't be sped up(that what I meant by rushed, I wasn't talking about production time).

Lets be real, the whole 13 episode thing, is because the Japanese are very afraid of doing much more then that, due to the insane tax they have on disc type media(6-7 discs sets cost like 300 or so in USD, It's insane. btw, that would only be 26 episodes, yet it would cost consumers a arm and a leg. Also yes, a 50 ep anime would retail at what would=540 bucks USD in Japan).
 

spud1897

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Sure that's a valid claim(about not needing as much screen time), but 13 episode is never a valid number for any story too big to fit a movie format. However this Isn't any type of story, to makes matters worse, It's a wuxia, you can't fit a wuxia, even the simple ones(which shenmue is more complex then what would be considered simple), into 13 episodes.

For ref, wuxia live action shows are always 45min, so lets go with that, wuxia series average between 30-40 episodes, with the shorter ones only being a few episodes shy of 30(oddly enough the one most like Shenmue, is 50 episodes, but that's a completed series, and stories can differ alittle, so for benefit of the doubt, lets assume the lower, 26-30 episodes).

That's still way more then 13 episodes can pull off. Wuxias can't be sped up(that what I meant by rushed, I wasn't talking about production time).

Lets be real, the whole 13 episode thing, is because the Japanese are very afraid of doing much more then that, due to the insane tax they have on disc type media(6-7 discs sets cost like 300 or so in USD, It's insane. btw, that would only be 26 episodes, yet it would cost consumers a arm and a leg. Also yes, a 50 ep anime would retail at what would=540 bucks USD in Japan).
I don't think we can judge it, certainly when we don't work in the industry. As I say I don't hold any real prior knowledge about Anime but the premise of the Shenmue story is a revenge martial arts tale with mystical elements. So in fact it's premise, for me at least is fairly simple, what Shenmue does well, in game formats, is flesh out the living world and the characters. It does also add some padding (get money to meet person X).

How they translate and develop those characters to screen is most interesting to me. It may not be enough but we will have to see.

If it got a second season, say for arguments sake another 13 episodes, then that would be 26 episodes (go with the 45 mins per episode you suggested) which would total 19.5 hours across Shenmue 1-3, assuming it went that far.

We also don't know at what point the series would stop in Shenmue II. Would it be leaving Hong Kong or would it be leaving Kowloon (which makes more sense in my head at least).

As I've said before in previous posts there's plenty that can be lost in Shenmue from the games as they won't make for a good translation from game to screen, which would leave more time for character development in the episodes. I get the impression they will focus in on the core story here more than anything else. Use the action to grab the audiences attention. The opening is likely to be pretty action packed with Iwao dying so I'd imagine they might continue that theme.

As for the physical media, yes it is expensive in Japan but the rest of the world it isn't. I don't think that really comes into it certainly not in the west where physical media is dirt cheap to produce. In fact if they didnt make a small run of some physical media to top up the cash flow I'd say they'd missed a trick. Shenmue fans gobble this sorta stuff up.
 
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