Why do i see yakuza fans spreading hate on people who like shenmue 3?

Alex bana said:
I would agree. The turn-based gameplay and mandatory fights really ruined it for me, plus the overly empty map. In my mind, Lost Judgment fixed most of its issues though. I really hope yakuza 8 goes back to action gameplay.
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The series will be RPG going forward. Deal with it.
 
Sega itself is partially to blame but the sooner people realize Shenmue isn't really an open-world brawler action game, the faster they will stop trying to compare it to Yakuza.

Ironic since Yakuza since the first game on the PS2 suffered badly with comparisons with Grand Theft Auto by reviewers up until arguably the Renaissance Era (Yakuza 5/Yakuza 0 western release)
 
I thought I posted in this topic, but clearly not! I remember as a kid, there were playground wars of Mario vs Sonic etc and the worst you'd get is some crappy fan art of Sonic killing Mario (or vice versa) in gaming magazines. Nowadays though, everything seems more sinister. Maybe it's the aspergers, but i've spent most of my life trying to enjoy the things I love and not focus on things that make me unhappy. Now with that in mind, some bad things are unavoidable, but moaning about a series you aren't interested in is such a waste of time I can't begin to fathom why people do it!

If I were to play Devil's advocate, I think it's a combination of many things; for one thing - the internet is being the internet, but it wasn't always this way. A combination of 24 hour media, increased competition etc forcibly makes people put X against Y. I can understand if you've got £50 and you can only afford one game, then sure, compare and contrast, but I never understood why picking on a 20 year old game is in vogue.

People want to be on the right side of history, so they pick "their" game and piss on others. It's tedious, pathetic and demoralising. I *love* the Yakuza series. I think it's fantastic, but as mentioned by great replies here, Shenmue and Yakuza are so different! If I may use a musical example, I think of the band "Talk Talk". Yakuza is the early Talk Talk; commercial, catchy and full of hits. Shenmue is latter Talk Talk; more complex, etherial and happy doing its own thing. Now if you ask me, I do prefer latter Talk Talk, but I can put some of their earlier, catchier stuff and love it just the same.

I do hate that divisiveness, bitterness and just plain being a dick seems to be in vogue these days. And for what? I laugh at these people and they deserve our pity. Imagine being so miserable that you are offended by others enjoying another game?

Sorry if it's a rambling post; bit of a stream of consciousness there!!
 
ugh, yeah that shit is so tired - i get the similarity/DNA but they're vastly different series, and can be loved/respected for quite different reasons too
 
As I said, it was the opposite for me, but there is room for both. It's funny that Yakuza is now an RPG while Shenmue was conceived as an RPG (for Virtua Fighter). I'll admit both games can learn from each other in their own ways but in the end, they should be their own things.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
The series will be RPG going forward. Deal with it.
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That is true. I have read that the Judgment games will cater to the 3d fighting engine fans while the Yakuza Series will be turn-based.

I have not played Yakuza 8 yet so I cannot say if I like the new gameplay or not. Will try it out at some point in the future for sure.


The Shenmue and Yakuza comparisons are pointless but people like to compare things with each other. The gaming field is no exception to that human trade. In the 90s every First Person Shooter was just a doom clone and every third person game with an over-the-shoulder view was like Tomb Raider.

In the social media day and age, such comparisons are even more prevalent because they give good meme material for Twitter and Youtube.

It is ridiculous and can not be helped but never mind.
 
I've always seen Yakuza as a repetitive action game that tries hard not to be repetitive, but still manages to be. Shenmue I am occupied with other things or just relaxing - occasionally I fight, but it's not my main prerogative.
 
deathofaninja said:
I've always seen Yakuza as a repetitive action game that tries hard not to be repetitive, but still manages to be. Shenmue I am occupied with other things or just relaxing - occasionally I fight, but it's not my main prerogative.
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I felt that way the first time I played it. I hated the load times every time I got into a fight and did EVERYTHING possible to avoid them. And in the original PS2 games, I fucking HATED the fixed camera angles which ultimately convinced me that this game was NOTHING like Shenmue.
 
Funny, I actually liked the Fixed cameras. because they were a very tangible vestige of Jet Set Radio team. Yakuza 1 was definitely annoying with fight encounter load times, but they were at least easy enough to run away and then Yakuza 2 made them optional.
 
Video game fandoms are odd, not football fandoms odd, but still. Shenmue might have been a predecessor to Yakuza (SEGA, open world etc), but it’s still apples and oranges especially the further down the timeline you go.

I sometimes wonder if it is all about disliking on generations type of thing, like one often sees in music (insert generic parent complaining about the noise the kid listens to, fast forward 20 years and repeat)? So not so much hate as what’s nostalgic and was experienced as revolutionary at the time one was young, and IS experienced revolutionary in ones own young time and rightly so. I loved Yakuza LAD, was the first Yakuza game I played (yup), a solid experience. At 14 it would’ve blown my fucking mind. But to me Shenmue II is still better and I can only explain it by parts nostalgia and ability to appreciate it for what it was back then and is still, and parts how playing those games at that age shaped how I still enjoy gaming, how one plays. That might feel threatening for someone more new to gaming, I dunno. You feel very intense belonging as part of a fandom, and no one can obsess as hard as teenagers. People throwing shit are usually younger .. no disrespect to younger fans, we’ve all been young and more emotional and passionate, I hand made Shenmue school book coverings and went screaming on boyband concerts. Also had some very, very embarrassing and stupid arguments on these very forums back in 2003. Guess most will grow out of it and be better for it.
 
xatruio said:
Funny, I actually liked the Fixed cameras. because they were a very tangible vestige of Jet Set Radio team. Yakuza 1 was definitely annoying with fight encounter load times, but they were at least easy enough to run away and then Yakuza 2 made them optional.
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Araviel said:
Video game fandoms are odd, not football fandoms odd, but still. Shenmue might have been a predecessor to Yakuza (SEGA, open world etc), but it’s still apples and oranges especially the further down the timeline you go.

I sometimes wonder if it is all about disliking on generations type of thing, like one often sees in music (insert generic parent complaining about the noise the kid listens to, fast forward 20 years and repeat)? So not so much hate as what’s nostalgic and was experienced as revolutionary at the time one was young, and IS experienced revolutionary in ones own young time and rightly so. I loved Yakuza LAD, was the first Yakuza game I played (yup), a solid experience. At 14 it would’ve blown my fucking mind. But to me Shenmue II is still better and I can only explain it by parts nostalgia and ability to appreciate it for what it was back then and is still, and parts how playing those games at that age shaped how I still enjoy gaming, how one plays. That might feel threatening for someone more new to gaming, I dunno. You feel very intense belonging as part of a fandom, and no one can obsess as hard as teenagers. People throwing shit are usually younger .. no disrespect to younger fans, we’ve all been young and more emotional and passionate, I hand made Shenmue school book coverings and went screaming on boyband concerts. Also had some very, very embarrassing and stupid arguments on these very forums back in 2003. Guess most will grow out of it and be better for it.
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I played both Shenmue and Yakuza when they both came out in Japan. Going into Yakuza, I was expecting the so-called spiritual successor to Shenmue. I was expecting magic weather, a time/calendar system, talking to ALL NPCs with their own routines, exploring every object of every room in every building. You name it, I was expecting it. Was I wrong? Yes, I was. At the time, I thought Yakuza was just "one and done" and playing it once was enough. But the sequel came from out of left field and I gave it a chance. Since then, I've learned to appreciate the franchise for what it is. I mean, I can't expect having sex with one hot playboy model to be better or worse than another, can't I?

It was never a "generational" thing for me. I was just expecting what I thought was a "spiritual successor," and everyone was wrong for expecting such a thing, but we were expecting it for good reason.

Shenmue just appealed to all of my personal tastes. I was interested in Japanese culture, martial arts cinema, Virtua Fighter, etc. All of its other aesthetics just further cemented my love for it.
 
RyoHazuki84 said:
I played both Shenmue and Yakuza when they both came out in Japan. Going into Yakuza, I was expecting the so-called spiritual successor to Shenmue. I was expecting magic weather, a time/calendar system, talking to ALL NPCs with their own routines, exploring every object of every room in every building. You name it, I was expecting it. Was I wrong? Yes, I was. At the time, I thought Yakuza was just "one and done" and playing it once was enough. But the sequel came from out of left field and I gave it a chance. Since then, I've learned to appreciate the franchise for what it is. I mean, I can't expect having sex with one hot playboy model to be better or worse than another, can't I?

It was never a "generational" thing for me. I was just expecting what I thought was a "spiritual successor," and everyone was wrong for expecting such a thing, but we were expecting it for good reason.

Shenmue just appealed to all of my personal tastes. I was interested in Japanese culture, martial arts cinema, Virtua Fighter, etc. All of its other aesthetics just further cemented my love for it.
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I see your point, but the generational thing I was trying to illustrate wouldn’t apply as you played these games when they were released. Instead of someone who started off with Yakuza, even much later, and then tried Shenmue. Though I would also suspect that plenty of people who’ve played Yakuza and then has an opinion on Shenmue never actually played Shenmue. It seems at some point it was just trendy to hate on Shenmue.

Maybe it has to do with expectations, as you said, of what Yakuza would be in relation to Shenmue and how it isn’t quite that nor was perhaps meant to even be.

The submersion into a part of JPN culture really does draw people in. For that reason I’ll probably play the rest of the Yakuza games at some point, though starting with LAD means I’ll have to follow my own advice and adjust expectations according to when the other games were released ;)
 
Araviel said:
The submersion into a part of JPN culture really does draw people in. For that reason I’ll probably play the rest of the Yakuza games at some point, though starting with LAD means I’ll have to follow my own advice and adjust expectations according to when the other games were released ;)
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Oh for sure, but for different reasons. With Shenmue, you get a taste of suburban life. Unless you served or grew up in the military, chances are you never heard of Yokosuka (and it seems that Mark Hamill went to high school there). But everyone knows Tokyo and Osaka. You're getting a taste of Japanese life, but different tastes of it.

But in addition to that, both games are products of Sega which also makes the comparisons more inevitable and unavoidable.
 
Longtime lurker here (15+ years if I had to guess) and ironically this is what finally pulled me in.

First off hi to all. 🙂

Just wanted to share some thoughts, perhaps add some perspective and possibly go on a bit of a rant, but please bear with me.

I've played both Shenmue and Yakuza when they first came out in Europe and contrary to most comments here I've always viewed Yakuza as a spiritual successor to Shenmue to this day.

There are obvious differences on both the conceptual and technical level, but to me Yakuza is clearly built on a lot of the concepts and DNA of what made Shenmue; from cinematic storytelling on a level I hadn't seen in games before, to being a virtual window into Japanese/Asian culture, to having a strong focus on fighting/martial arts all the way down to incorporating a plethora of side activities, mechanics like Quick Time Events etc.

At the time I didn't know who Yu Suzuki or Toshihiro Nagoshi were, but the Sega connection was all I needed to confirm there was overlap on some level.

And even beyond that you can see similarities; two franchises trying to break through the confines of niche, struggling to reach a bigger audience in order to survive.

But instead of celebrating each others successes we end up with threads like this one where the fandom of one franchise feels the need to put the other one down, because I'm reading a lot of the same comments here that people are accusing the other side of. Even some of the praise contains little more than backhanded compliments.

I'm not saying you can't dislike either franchise for legimitate reasons - people like what they like after all - but the disdain for the 'other side' from a loud minority of both camps is more than a little obvious and frankly, obnoxious. But that's tribalism-fuelled fandoms and their mostly toxic echo chambers for you.

And while I'm not really interested in getting into the whole generational debate, the experience of being part of something from day one is obviously very different compared to discovering something years down the line, for a multitude of reasons.

Shenmue and Yakuza are my favorite video game franchises for both similar and different reasons and I wish more people would embrace both.

I like the cousins comparison but I'd go even a step further and say they're siblings. Closely similar, but also distinctively different. There's no need to 'pick a team'.

If you're still reading at this point, thanks for taking the time to go through my incoherent ramblings.
 
You Arcade Clerk said:
Longtime lurker here (15+ years if I had to guess) and ironically this is what finally pulled me in.

First off hi to all. 🙂

Just wanted to share some thoughts, perhaps add some perspective and possibly go on a bit of a rant, but please bear with me.

I've played both Shenmue and Yakuza when they first came out in Europe and contrary to most comments here I've always viewed Yakuza as a spiritual successor to Shenmue to this day.

There are obvious differences on both the conceptual and technical level, but to me Yakuza is clearly built on a lot of the concepts and DNA of what made Shenmue; from cinematic storytelling on a level I hadn't seen in games before, to being a virtual window into Japanese/Asian culture, to having a strong focus on fighting/martial arts all the way down to incorporating a plethora of side activities, mechanics like Quick Time Events etc.

At the time I didn't know who Yu Suzuki or Toshihiro Nagoshi were, but the Sega connection was all I needed to confirm there was overlap on some level.

And even beyond that you can see similarities; two franchises trying to break through the confines of niche, struggling to reach a bigger audience in order to survive.

But instead of celebrating each others successes we end up with threads like this one where the fandom of one franchise feels the need to put the other one down, because I'm reading a lot of the same comments here that people are accusing the other side of. Even some of the praise contains little more than backhanded compliments.

I'm not saying you can't dislike either franchise for legimitate reasons - people like what they like after all - but the disdain for the 'other side' from a loud minority of both camps is more than a little obvious and frankly, obnoxious. But that's tribalism-fuelled fandoms and their mostly toxic echo chambers for you.

And while I'm not really interested in getting into the whole generational debate, the experience of being part of something from day one is obviously very different compared to discovering something years down the line, for a multitude of reasons.

Shenmue and Yakuza are my favorite video game franchises for both similar and different reasons and I wish more people would embrace both.

I like the cousins comparison but I'd go even a step further and say they're siblings. Closely similar, but also distinctively different. There's no need to 'pick a team'.

If you're still reading at this point, thanks for taking the time to go through my incoherent ramblings.
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I totally get it but I don't really see them as siblings. I still see it as the apples and oranges argument but we're talking about apples and oranges that come from the same farm. As I have stated before, there is so much that I (and other people here) love about Shenmue. I wanted magic weather, interacting with every character on the street, exploring objects in buildings, a day/night cycle with a calendar, and everything else. I came into playing the first Yakuza game expecting all those things and didn't get them. I'll admit it's my fault for projecting those feelings. I mean, the trailers and other preview materials NEVER stated such things. I just jumped the perceptual bandwagon that we were getting a Shenmue successor at a time we were still hoping for Shenmue III, and this is the closest we might get.

But I'll admit it took me a while to warm up to it, but it's still hard for me to go back to the first PS2 game with all the load times, camera angles, the lousy targeting system in the fights, and other knick-knacks. Yakuza 4 finally started to use the camera angles that it should've used to begin with lol. But I'll admit, when I got to play the first Yakuza game when it came out towards the end of 2005, I must've played the first two Shenmue games hundreds of times.
 
While the first Yakuza came out a good while after Shenmue, it was a downgrade in some technical aspects:

- Less voiced dialogue.
- Fixed camera angles.
- Less interactivity with the world.
- Longer load times.
- No day/night cycle.

There's more, but I think this touches the main ones.

Most of these I consider 'budgetary conscious' decisions; they've cut down features to a more sustainable model, while still delivering a comparable experience, at least as far as I'm concerned. And I can't blame Sega; Shenmue was a huge money sink for them that didn't do too well commercially. Accolades, breaking new ground and a cult following are nice accomplishments, but at the end of the day it's a business and it's about making money.

However, while Yakuza was scaled back compared to Shenmue, I think it also made at least one major improvement:

- Tighter storytelling and it actually finished the story it wanted to tell.

Having a grand, epic saga that spans over multiple releases is an awesome concept with huge *potential* pay-off, but what happens if the franchise dies halfway through? Unfortunately, we pretty much saw that play out until Shenmue's revival years later. And at this point we still don't know where/how/when and IF we'll ever see it finished. I'm fairly optimistic we'll get the ending, but obviously nobody knows for sure at this point.

I'll take certainty over that awful feeling of insecurity any day. Every Yakuza sequel ties in to and builds upon its predecessors, but the story of each game is self-contained. And they're still telling large, complex and fulfilling stories in each one.

And yeah, turning emotional attachment into expectation is something that tends to lead to disappointment. Not saying you're wrong, though. We've all been there at some point, so I can definitely sympathize.

But it's the reason some fans didn't like Shenmue III; people project 20 years of baggage into expectations that can never be met. The project could have had three times its budget and that still would have happened. I loved the game, but went into it fully aware how much of an uphill battle it was fighting and cut it some slack for the things that weren't perfect.

And something similar is happening with the anime right now; some fans are putting it under way too much scrutiny.
Again, I get where people are coming from, but by not having an open mind they're robbing themselves of a great opportunity. I'm happy the anime seems to be enjoying a better reception than Shenmue III did, though. I hope it can maintain this level of quality and end on a high note as we reach the season's conclusion.

Sorry, kind of keep digressing.

Guess I also needed to get some things off my chest. Feels good, though.
 
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