Worried about Free Battle System

D

DoubleO_Ren

Joined
Jul 28, 2018
One of the most exciting parts for me in Shenmue I & II was the VF engine and feeling like a martial arts master when i finally mastered the combat system rather than just throwing random punches I can bust out Brutal Tiger, Crawl Cyclone time my Swallow dive and Counter Elbow Assault perfectly and because they are not easy to do, it just added all the more to the immersion and satisfaction when you pull it off.

But come Shenmue III all I've seen so far is that the Battle System will be greatly simplified and even has an A.I that will fight for you?? I'm worried it will be a button masher rather than being about skill? Yu confirmed as much in his Shenmue Kickstarter Update No. 78.
Will I be playing a 3D fighter with skillfull complex combos?
Or will I be playing Sleeping Dogs/Arkham or worse A David Cage game?

Someone heal my worries please. If it's anything less than a 3D fighter type combat similar to VF or Tekken, I'll be greatly disappointed.
 
Until we can play the game we can only speculate. We can only trust in the man who created 3D games. According to the description by Suzuki, it could be anything.

I liked the VF style of combat of the two ones, only the camera was a madness sometimes and because of that, trying to do some moves resulted in failure at times.

I'm sure 3 will do it better.
 
I loved the VF engine in the first two games felt nice and solid for me. Also I grew up playing VF so it was a nice easy transition. However I have watched some let's plays and noticed quite a few struggle to grasp the fighting in Shenmue 1 and 2.

What I remember from the screen that came in early summer is that there was a health bar so I don't think we would get a David Cage style fighting engine. I think Yu will try and make a system that is slightly more accessible to new players but also allows us veterans of the first 2 to feel it has satisfactory depth. You will learn new moves as you go on so I'd suggest a system that requires an element of skill is being produced.

All guessing on my part until we see then game in action of course.
 
I don’t want something to simple like the Arkham games. But I do feel some moves like the elbow assault still need to stay.
 
Counter Elbow assault
Elbow Assault
Tornado Kick
Swallow Flip

all have deep story elements, those moves are vital, the problem is how do we do them? Is elbow assault gonna be at the end of button mashing square? Or will it be forward forward square, I pray it's the latter.
 
From what I remember reading, it sounds like the game will have both options available in real time, so you can play Yakuza style, or you can play traditionally and make the fights interesting.
 
Cauldron08 said:
From what I remember reading, it sounds like the game will have both options available in real time, so you can play Yakuza style, or you can play traditionally and make the fights interesting.
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That would be good. How they implement that would be a challenge to strike the balance between spamming a certain button and a proper fighting engine.
 
Here's what I'm hoping for:

The FREE battle system that we all know and love (hopefully anyway) but with an additional option to perform difficult moves easily in certain situations. Kind of like in Shenmue 1 where we had the option to set a difficult move to RT to give us an advantage.

I can tolerate it as long as I can enjoy the FREE battle system. I'd also hope that Yu would limit the press one button to win mechanics to battles with numerous opponents at once. Imagine being able to mash x senselessly and beat Lan Di ;(

I actually loved the option to set difficult moves to RT in the first game and you could already spam to win in 95% of the fights so I don't understand why Yu would water down the fighting system any further.
 
The AI system sounds a lot like the Option Select mechanic in fighting games. The way it was described in the Kickstarter made it sound as if it was opitional for beginning players. So until we see some gameplay footage it's hard to judge yet.
 
DoubleO_Ren said:
Counter Elbow assault
Elbow Assault
Tornado Kick
Swallow Flip

all have deep story elements, those moves are vital, the problem is how do we do them? Is elbow assault gonna be at the end of button mashing square? Or will it be forward forward square, I pray it's the latter.
Click to expand...

Don't forget the Shadow Strike! That move is so cool to pull off makes me feel like a ninja lol. Judging by the extended teaser Ryo will probably have the Swallow Dive move.
 
chaikilla said:
Here's what I'm hoping for:

The FREE battle system that we all know and love (hopefully anyway) but with an additional option to perform difficult moves easily in certain situations. Kind of like in Shenmue 1 where we had the option to set a difficult move to RT to give us an advantage.

I can tolerate it as long as I can enjoy the FREE battle system. I'd also hope that Yu would limit the press one button to win mechanics to battles with numerous opponents at once. Imagine being able to mash x senselessly and beat Lan Di ;(

I actually loved the option to set difficult moves to RT in the first game and you could already spam to win in 95% of the fights so I don't understand why Yu would water down the fighting system any further.
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Maybe he wants to offer players something more fluid and varied than 'spamming' one or two moves, for players who aren't into deep fighting games. The originals were very rigid if you weren't super into learning all the moves and techniques.

I loved the style of the originals too though, so I am a little concerned. I hope it isn't too button mashy or simple.
 
Can't say for sure what it's like but I'm imagining something like Yakuza, with simple combos and heat actions to replace the more complex moves. Can't say I'm happy about it but again until we see more it's just speculation without much evidence to go on...
 
I was thinking the same thing, loved the fighting, made me feel like a martial artist in control of the fighting. This was a huge part in making shenmue feel unique and a martial art drama epic, like the movies. I am concerned..
 
Until we see it in motion it is hard to judge and we are all guessing.

I'm hoping for an engine that allows veteran players to enjoy a system with depth and that rewards skill/timing but allows for new players to have an easier experience. Maybe a two tier system? I never had any issue with the old system apart from the dodgy camera angles from time to time.

As @DoubleO_Ren mentioned above there are moves with story elements to them so surely they will play a part in whatever system is implemented.
 
I am pretty sure everyone remembers this image since it's the only lead we've got in terms of the battle system. My best guess based on the limited information we've gotten from various interviews Yu has conducted is that it will be similar to the old system but won't focus on fighting game inputs and thus simplifying them.

I also remember Yu talking back in 2015 interviews about Ryo getting help from people or being more tactical by splitting up the group you're trying to fight or having a terrain advantage.
 

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I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The screenshot certainly looks like the FREE battle we're familiar with. I suspect it'll feel similar, but maybe not quite as intricate as it's not using an engine from an actual fighting game like the originals.
 
Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
I am pretty sure everyone remembers this image since it's the only lead we've got in terms of the battle system. My best guess based on the limited information we've gotten from various interviews Yu has conducted is that it will be similar to the old system but won't focus on fighting game inputs and thus simplifying them.

I also remember Yu talking back in 2015 interviews about Ryo getting help from people or being more tactical by splitting up the group you're trying to fight or having a terrain advantage.
Click to expand...

This part is really interesting as I can see how it would tie in with the character perspective system. Ryo fighting enemies with his hands, Ren using weapons and Shenhua possibly using magic?
 
The main issues with the combat in the first game are:

A) there simply isn't enough of it to make training feel worthwhile
B) training up moves isn't required and is only rewarded in one fight (Chai arcade)
C) training mostly amounts to repeating combos in an empty park without an opponent -- this isn't how improving your sparring techniques work in real life and is probably the biggest missed opportunity in the first game. They should've had sparring partners for Ryo in Dobuita and the harbour

In Shenmue II the camera troubles become more prominent, perhaps due to an increase in enemies, confined spaces etc. and the inclusion of Command QTEs in some fights feels cheap and frustrating for the most part.

Straight away, there are a bunch of things they could improve upon in Shenmue III, but based on that single combat screenshot, one thing I don't think we'll be getting is traditional fighting game combos. If that screenshot is any indication of the general camera positioning (and it may not, but if it is...) then direction-based combos will feel terrible from behind-the-shoulder, just like when Ryo is facing towards/away from the camera in Shenmue I & II. They're going to create a style that feels condusive to an analogue stick, not a D-pad, which means something that works better in 3D.
 
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