Yu dodge a bullet wtih S3

I don't know why kickstarter games gets such a bad rep, of the games I backed (not that many) all turned out good:
- Double fine adventure: Ok game. I didn't finish it TBH, but the documentary was worth the $15 alone, maybe they under delivered with the "old school" part, and the "gilbert is also here" was kinda misleading, but overall, game got, documentary got.
- Tex Murphy: amazing game for old schoolers. Can't say much more than that, a couple of boring moments, but I got what I asked for.
- Dujanah: another game delivered on time, pretty damn good for an indie niche game.
- Neverending Nightmares: another game I backed just for the sake of it, turned out great, pretty solid game. The dev was a little too overboard with the updates though.
- Torment: tides of numenera: Didn't play it much, but it's a text heavy role playing game, with pretty nice graphics. Again what I asked for.

I guess people are actually expecting 10/10 games from people that can't even get founding the regular way, coupled with a couple of big names that gave it bad perception, but the reality (at least from my experience) has been fairly good (if you don't expect the 10/10 game that not even AAAs can achieve from a budget game).
 
Shenmue failed in saving the dreamcast...but will it succeed in saving kickstarter's reputation or be the final nail in its coffin?:unsure:

I find it abit amusing yu's always getting into all or nothing situations with his games. Is it a Curse or just something that comes with the territory as a living legend? The guy def can't catch a break. :sneaky:
 
Kickstarter gets a bad rap, because negativity gets clicks and because when projects don't meet expectations (or get delayed or miss platforms) then people get pissed.

I personally love a whole load of projects that wouldn't have been possible without crowdfunding. I've backed plenty and are more than happy with the majority that have been released.
 
I get pissed when projects make promises they never intend to keep, because that's fraud and there's absolutely no way of getting that money back. Unfortunately, it's interpreted as a donation rather than a purchase, so your consumer rights are completely non-existent.

It gets a bad rap because it's treated as a kind of pre-order system by nearly everyone (creators and pledgers alike), but has none of the legal responsibilities an actual pre-order system has.
 
DigitalDuck said:
I think it varies from person to person.

I (a programmer) personally find it can be useful and effective. Often you just have to be in the right state of mind to do any real work - when I'm not feeling it, working any number of hours is a waste because it's just going to be a slog; however, when I'm "in the zone" I can often work more than 24 hours at a time comfortably and do the equivalent of a couple of weeks' work in that period.

Not everyone is like that, and I'm lucky to have a job with a rather loose schedule that allows me to work this way, without forcing it upon anyone - most components are done to requirements by individuals, so it's just a case of meeting deadlines and having consistent progress.

That said, a lot of places expect long hours even with an unproductive mindset, and that just leads to that mindset sticking around and further reducing efficiency. It has to be something the worker chooses, and it has to show benefits over a standard 8-hour work day; otherwise it's no good.
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While not a programmer, I echo these sentiments for when I was a University student;

There would be some mornings (or nights) that I was absolutely in the zone, mindset-wise and I dropped everything and just worked on essays and projects; I'd spent 4+ hours straight (my longest was 12 at one point, doing a 27 page essay) doing nothing but work and not only would I complete the assignment, but it would be a much better product than a shorter assignment that took me longer to do, when I wasn't in the zone.

I usually did one page an hour when not in the zone, but that 12 hour ride (it was my longest and final essay in University), I was outputting more than 2 pages an hour; if not for mucking about with margins and stuff to try and make it a bit longer, my mark would've been 95, the best I had ever gotten in university, but got 20% off lol.

So yes, if Yu and the boys are in a groove one day and they need to put in a 12 hour day because they'll output their best stuff, do it; people know their limits.
 
shredingskin said:
I don't know why kickstarter games gets such a bad rep, of the games I backed (not that many) all turned out good:
- Double fine adventure: Ok game. I didn't finish it TBH, but the documentary was worth the $15 alone, maybe they under delivered with the "old school" part, and the "gilbert is also here" was kinda misleading, but overall, game got, documentary got.
- Tex Murphy: amazing game for old schoolers. Can't say much more than that, a couple of boring moments, but I got what I asked for.
- Dujanah: another game delivered on time, pretty damn good for an indie niche game.
- Neverending Nightmares: another game I backed just for the sake of it, turned out great, pretty solid game. The dev was a little too overboard with the updates though.
- Torment: tides of numenera: Didn't play it much, but it's a text heavy role playing game, with pretty nice graphics. Again what I asked for.

I guess people are actually expecting 10/10 games from people that can't even get founding the regular way, coupled with a couple of big names that gave it bad perception, but the reality (at least from my experience) has been fairly good (if you don't expect the 10/10 game that not even AAAs can achieve from a budget game).
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I think an acquaintance of mine put it best as to why he doesn't donate to Kickstarter "I don't pay for promises, I pay for results." In other words, he wants something tangible because what's to stop anybody pitching an ambitious idea and simply just running off with people's money? Which I think is a very valid point and is something that has happened before. The only time he's willing to open his wallet is if the pitcher on Kickstarter has demonstrated in the past that they're reliable.

My mindset is a bit different, for every subpar product (like Mighty No 9 which had more to do with poor management and communication problems) or failed promise there are success stories like Shantae 1/2 Genie Hero, Divinity Original Sin, etc.

So you are definitely taking a risk with these projects and could be burned. However sometimes that's the only way a game you want to get made. And finally I think most of these pitchers make pie in the sky promises because they don't foresee all the things that could go wrong during development. So as a backer you just have to take the rough with the smooth.
 
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People and the media seem to forget a lot of the great projects that came from Kickstarter and concentrate on the Mighty No 9s of the world, which is a shame. There's been so many wonderful Kickstarter projects...

Exploding Kittens
Bears vs Babies
Genesis/Mega Drive Collected Works
Shadowrun Returns
Yooka-Laylee
Broken Sword 5
Alice Dream's Tournament
Shantea
Bloodstained Curse of the Moon
Shovel Knight
Broken Age
Kingdom Come
 
DigitalDuck said:
I get pissed when projects make promises they never intend to keep, because that's fraud and there's absolutely no way of getting that money back.
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Yeah, I sympathise with this. Although I feel it's not necessarily KS at fault, but the fraudulent/poorly managed companies using it. Out of interest though, what examples are there of this?

It's difficult to prove a company never intended to keep the promises they made... However, I think the worst cases of lost money I have right now are Elysian Shadows (I still believe Saber Rider will be released, so will refrain from including that just yet), SLAVE (Dreamcast indie project) and Paprium (indie Mega Drive/Genesis project by Watermelon games).

Paprium is one that has completely taken the piss. I'm done with Watermelon and won't 'pre-order' or back any future project from them. I can put up with poor communication and infrequent updates, but they have bullshitted their way through this project.
 
There's actually a fairly sizable list of Kickstarter funded games that have released and been considered good-to-excellent. It's just the failures that are usually played up as "Kickstarter games", when frequently the crowdfunded roots of the successes are quietly swept under the carpet.
 
Reprise said:
Yeah, I sympathise with this. Although I feel it's not necessarily KS at fault, but the fraudulent/poorly managed companies using it. Out of interest though, what examples are there of this?

It's difficult to prove a company never intended to keep the promises they made... However, I think the worst cases of lost money I have right now are Elysian Shadows (I still believe Saber Rider will be released, so will refrain from including that just yet), SLAVE (Dreamcast indie project) and Paprium (indie Mega Drive/Genesis project by Watermelon games).

Paprium is one that has completely taken the piss. I'm done with Watermelon and won't 'pre-order' or back any future project from them. I can put up with poor communication and infrequent updates, but they have bullshitted their way through this project.
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lol I was one of the winners of the Gold Cartridge, for Paprium, and freakily-enough, I literally tried going to their site 5 minutes ago, but is blocked at work :(

I've been checking on it here and there and still think it'll come out.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
lol I was one of the winners of the Gold Cartridge, for Paprium, and freakily-enough, I literally tried going to their site 5 minutes ago, but is blocked at work :(

I've been checking on it here and there and still think it'll come out.
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How'd you win a gold cartridge?

I think it will come out... but seriously, what was with that 'release party' back in October when they claimed the game was done and ready to be shipped, then they showed off an unfinished bet, that had no enemies on screen, and ignored their customers ever since?
 
Beats me lol. I was sent an email and saw that a thread on the board was talking about it; nobody chimed in to say that I was bsing or anything , so voila! lol.

I think I was the first to back it and that's why (all I can think of).

And actually, a week before that, "party," was the last time I checked in, so I'm in the dark as to what happened.

That is indeed taking the piss.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
And actually, a week before that, "party," was the last time I checked in, so I'm in the dark as to what happened.

That is indeed taking the piss.
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I was in the dark too until some time in November or December I suddenly thought 'oh yeah, whatever happened to their launch party and the release of the game?' Worried I had missed the email requesting shipping details, I headed to their forum boards to see everyone kicking up a massive fuss about the game still not being ready and the 'release launch party' apparently actually being Fonzie playing an obviously unfinished game that didn't even have any enemies available. I don't want to go too off topic, but here's a Youtube clip if you're interested haha:
 
lol I just spent the last 45 minutes or so, scouring the boards; too funny.

I'm a 'mue fan, so I can wait another 10 years if need be, but yeah, being handled terribly.

Again, people are fine with delays, but tell people FFS.

Will say that what DOES work in the vids, looks pretty good.
 
Reprise said:
Yeah, I sympathise with this. Although I feel it's not necessarily KS at fault, but the fraudulent/poorly managed companies using it. Out of interest though, what examples are there of this?
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Well, the one that comes to mind most easily for me is the one I mentioned before - Elite: Dangerous. After fans of the original games were unhappy that the wording of the Kickstarter suggested an MMO, they claimed that the game would be playable offline (with some feature reduction, obviously).

All the way up until mere weeks before release, they were still claiming there would be an offline mode, particularly towards people who had played the beta and suggested that the systems they had in place would promote griefing and other undesirable player behaviour.

Then suddenly, "oh turns out we can't make it work offline lol too bad, why not try refunding?" On trying to refund: "no lol"

They also claimed the game would be DRM-free. It isn't. You can't accidentally put DRM in.

I'm fairly certain there were fraudulent practices at play here, and according to Elite's co-creator Ian Bell, Braben has a history of screwing people out of money...
 
Reprise said:
Asking for a refund is pretty shitty in my opinion.
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Taking funds for a product you couldn't provide (linux/mac versions) is even shittier imo. It's fine if they couldn't make those versions, shit happens during the dev cycle I get it, but ethically I feel if you made money off of those promises then you should do the right thing and refund those who backed based solely on those pledges. And to be honest, not much of Kickstarter's CYA fineprint would hold up in court if someone ever got serious with a class-action lawsuit. Kickstarter themselves would be fine, it's the devs (among others) that utilize their platform that might get fucked.
 
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Yeah, I know what you're saying. Personally, I only invest money which I am "prepared to lose" on Kickstarter's which bascically means I go for pretty low-level tiers all the time. SImply because you never know if the product or the version of the product you backed will ever get made.

On a side note: I do the same thing with regular preorders though. I don't really preorder anything anymore. For games, I always wait till after release and read some reviews or watch a "before you buy" video on Youtube because when you preorder based on trailers and media coverage and stuff you never really know if it turns out to be the game you immagined it to be.
 
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