Yu Suzuki Interview (IGN Japan): Reflections on S3, Plans for S4

DoubleO_Ren said:
Any chance some of that 20 million is for Shenmue 4 and that Suzuki has assets and maybe even gameplay/cutscenes for Baisha ready to go? Cos I'm saying man, it seems highly likely with the confidence he has about Shenmue 4.
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Not saying it's impossible, but S3 ends with Ryo on the Great Wall, which is pretty far from Baisha...
 
iknifaugood said:
This is almost exactly what I assume happened except:

[URL='https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/index.php?goto/post&id=98535' said:
jcjimher[/URL]]They got triple that from the Kickstarter, and decided to invest on "gamey" content (fighting system, minigames, collectibles, etc) to make the game more in line with previous Shenmues and not so barren.
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This should not have happened with the amount of story content they had (easy to play armchair game designer, I know). This is what we mean when we say that they chose to focus on mini games over story; triple the budget should've gone exclusively to fighting and story stuff and, should Suzuki make S4, this is exactly what he should prioritize.
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Which is why we're speculating that it was fan influence that made Shenmue III focus on mini games and activities over lore, story and characters. If they had a bigger budget that came later and focused on just implementing side activities that must mean they were happy with the integration of the characters and story which I doubt, especially since they felt the need to remove Baisha early on. Suzuki also makes it clear that he made Shenmue III with fans in mind not that he didn't have the time to do the story how he wanted.
 
Sonoshee said:
There's no reason why Baisha couldn't make an appearance. I don't think any place is out of Ryo's way when it comes to why his father was killed.
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Can you imagine? He gets to the Cliff Temple and they're like "go to Baisha" and Ryo's like "BUT I WAS JUST NEAR THERE!!!!" and decides not to go lol. He will only quest for revenge as long as the stops make sense.
 
Maybe YsNet could make Baisha as a DLC for Shenmue 3 and replace the Old Castle stuff entirely?

Has their ever been DLC that has fundamentally changed the story for the main game?
 
Rydeen said:
For some examples of objectivity, you'll have to do some damn fine work to argue that: Any pole of an external model of an n-th order continuous linear system lying in the right-half complex-plane doesn't result in an unstable system with a mode that grows unbounded.
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Out of curiosity. Are the "external model" and "grow unbounded" parts necessary conditions? Doesn't "linear system" already imply a mathematical model? Doesn't "unstable system" imply at least 1 term tending to infinity? Anyway, I guess the argument against is that poles in the right half of the complex plane have positive real parts. So having at least one pole there will result in an unstable system. By the way, I wondered if the functions need to be continuous and/or holomorphic?

Rydeen said:
Subjecting the body to UV radiation, internally, is an effective treatment for COVID-19.
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Despite what many in the media etc. claim, there has apparently been research (started years ago) into this so I won't argue that. Cedars-Sinai cooperated with a bioscience company : https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/cedars-sinai-statement-on-uv-a--technology/ . More detailed sources add that they hope to get approval to test this on people in the nearby future.

About Shenmue 3. For me the series has always been about the balance between story, fighting, complex QTE's, extra activities and an immersive world where you can talk to most NPC's. Having one of these dominate too much makes things feel less true to its original feeling personally.
 
I'm just going to spoiler this because it's kind of way off topic.
ys. said:
Out of curiosity. Are the "external model" and "grow unbounded" parts necessary conditions? Doesn't "linear system" already imply a mathematical model? Doesn't "unstable system" imply at least 1 term tending to infinity? Anyway, I guess the argument against is that poles in the right half of the complex plane have positive real parts. So having at least one pole there will result in an unstable system. By the way, I wondered if the functions need to be continuous and/or holomorphic?
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To be a little more clear, all of those were meant as examples of things that are false, and can be proven as false (null hypotheses, of sorts). "External model," is because the system could have internally unstable modes that aren't represented in the external model (canceled by zeroes of the transfer function). So it would be technically correct to say that a system is stable even if one of its poles is located in the positively real half of the plane, under the condition that it also has a zero at the same location (externally stable). The boundedness is extraneous information, that's true. Does need to be continuous, though. A discrete time, linear system is generally stable if its poles lie anywhere within the unit circle.


ys. said:
Despite what many in the media etc. claim, there has apparently been research (started years ago) into this so I won't argue that. Cedars-Sinai cooperated with a bioscience company : https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/cedars-sinai-statement-on-uv-a--technology/ . More detailed sources add that they hope to get approval to test this on people in the nearby future.
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Well I'll be damned. I'll reserve further judgement until they've passed clinical trials in humans, and it may be worth noting that it's specifically UV-A, but that is very interesting. I was potentially wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
Tsukuyomimagi99 said:
We can sit here and play this "should've, could've, would've" game all day long. The fact of the matter is that @Thomasina wanted to know whether Suzuki still cared about the story. You can be skeptical if you want, but honestly, what do you want Suzuki to say at this point? What's done is done. I wanted to play the Three Kingdoms siege minigame along with a more strategic combat system and I didn't get that either.

If this kind of thing is that disconcerting to you, then be proactive and let Suzuki know that you want more story. He has a Twitter account after all.
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What I want Yu to say? Probably less at this point. That would be the best course of action. That way he won't talk about things he ends up not being able to implement if S4 is gonna happen.

As for the other thing, I've sent an email to YS Net in November politely stating my opinion on the game. Doubt that Yu had it translated and actually cared though, which is understandable. :D

But my opinion on the game hasn't really changed since I first finished it. There were things on the positive side and on the negative side since then, which pretty much outweigh each other. The awesome Cruise ship dlc for instance on one hand and the $20 million comment on the other.

We don't know how much of these 20 million went into marketing and other non-development related stuff but this is a textbook example of how saying less would have been the better choice.

Now that I've read this comment I will always think "4 and a half years and $20 million" in the back of my head when I look at S3. :p That's my own problem though, not Yu's fault.
 
Seems like I'm the only one that though 20m was on the ballpark of what I have been speculating ?

The other day I was taking photos of the maps of SII for reference and I while I was walking I got interrupted by that cutscene of Joy and the photographer, that was a pleasant surprise and some of the stuff that made Shenmue feel different from most games. It didn't had subquests, it was just a random cutscene, that usually takes you by surprise and adds a little color to the game, that keep surprising you even if you have already played the game hundreds of times.
Which leads me to the comment of substories that YS wants to do for S4.
I understand that having that level of cinematics in S3 was out of the budget (well, kinda, probably with a more veteran team and clear directions is not too far fetched), but the sidemissions on S3 were very plain, even the more involved ones, which is kinda in the realistic tone of the overall saga.

One of the examples to draw from would be Deadly premonition, which has probably a NPC system much more involved than Shenmue, though on a much smaller scale, and if those subquests with those very fledged out and interesting NPCs could carry the bulk of the game, and I really don't think so. You could say that most of Yakuza is actually the subquests, but those sidemissions would be moot if there wasn't an actual story to contrast playing the part of the foil for them.
Not going to go into comparisons about the tone of those games (which both Yakuza and DP have this very involved "serious" main story and a bunch of whacky and over the top NPCs/situations), but how will S4 will manage these subquests.

Some of the best parts of S3 for me (and many others) were the Shenhua nightly conversations, but if it wasn't for the previous games creating expectations and setting the world, I wouldn't care a single fuck about those sequences. They are not really compelling, nor really make Shenhua or Ryo that much more interesting, it's about the time spent with Ryo and his journey that actually makes me care.

Has anyone seen the movie/s that YS references ? Maybe to get a clue on what is occupying his mind and might inspire S4 ?
I do hope that S4 will go back to those random cutscenes from nowhere, or even more involved, but looking at "mainstream gaming" I don't see going that route (though I don't doubt that it'll still have a bunch of those).
I think that both S1 and S2 did a great job in having a bunch of fledging out NPCs weaved into the main story and it's part of why Shenmue felt more than a game.
 
I think Baisha's story beats have already been used at the castle (Ryo getting his butt kicked, Niao Sun vs. Lan Di) so I doubt we'll go there as there isn't really a reason to do so anymore.
 
KidMarine said:
I think Baisha's story beats have already been used at the castle (Ryo getting his butt kicked, Niao Sun vs. Lan Di) so I doubt we'll go there as there isn't really a reason to do so anymore.
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I guess you are right. There was supposed to be an infiltration mission in Baisha that was part of the Kickstarter streatch goals and I also believe that it was definitely supposed to be what they used in the Castle area.
Neverhtheless I also think that Baisha will probably be used in Shenmue 4 considering the work that had already been done in that area during the development of Shenmue 3.
 
KidMarine said:
I think Baisha's story beats have already been used at the castle (Ryo getting his butt kicked, Niao Sun vs. Lan Di) so I doubt we'll go there as there isn't really a reason to do so anymore.
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Yu could re-shuffle narrative to fit Baisha in, especially since it looked like it was well into development from the KS video diaries. It'd be a shame to see another great prospect go to waste after previously cut chapters already went that way.
 
iknifaugood said:
This should not have happened with the amount of story content they had (easy to play armchair game designer, I know). This is what we mean when we say that they chose to focus on mini games over story; triple the budget should've gone exclusively to fighting and story stuff and, should Suzuki make S4, this is exactly what he should prioritize.
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Mmm, maybe you are right, but I'm not sure what the reaction would have been if the $6 million kickstarter would have resulted into a set of a $3 million Shenmue III plus an extra $3 million Shenmue IV along the same lines, covering more story.

In hindsight (if I play the armchair game designer role too) I'd say the key mistake was the Deep Silver deal, in particular the part of getting substantial extra funding. If they got that money so late into the project that they weren't able to use part of it on overhauling the story content, then maybe better release the more modest (but balanced) $6 million Shenmue III, and release it earlier so you can continue the series on new terms eventually. But who would refuse such a deal in such a situation...

iknifaugood said:
Baisha was cut fairly early (likely around the time DS granted additional funding). It's the only location that wasn't shown in any of the trailers and any story content needed in Baisha was likely moved to the Castle section. There's no way a game this tight on money and time cut expensive things like cutscenes and story sequences; anything like that that was done for Baisha was moved to the Castle section.
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Are we sure it was consciously scrapped that early? Maybe they simply had it later on their original schedule, and started developing Bailu and Niaowu as if Baisha was going to be made. And then it was suddenly scrapped, being left with Bailu and Niaowu as they had. There being no signs of Baisha could be compatible with this too. (I agree with you they probably never developed substantial material for the Baisha section).
 
While I think Yu certainly listened to fan feedback and felt an obligation to deliver certain things (the forklift is the most obvious example), it was pretty clear that integrating multiple gameplay systems into a deeper world economy was a big goal of his with SIII. That was one of the major things he was excited about, and he couldn't have achieved that if they went the "more story, less gameplay" route. That's just one of the reasons why I don't think listening to the fans had a hugely negative impact on the game.
 
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