110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

Honestly I'd have thought that in between the countless Sonic and Yakuza games, they may have shown Shenmue some love and greenlit S4. With all the money they throw at those franchises, they could have had Shenmue finished by now.
It hurts because as much as we love Sega, we also know this things are Sega's things. The schrodinger company, good and wicked at the same time.
Sega is cool but also not cool at all.
Also I believe there's still many people inside the company, veterans, who resent Shenmue ("We sunked because that pharaonic expensive project!" and similar false statements).
 
Honestly I'd have thought that in between the countless Sonic and Yakuza games, they may have shown Shenmue some love and greenlit S4. With all the money they throw at those franchises, they could have had Shenmue finished by now.

Totally agree
They would also imrpove A LOT their corporate image.

Look at Square Enix for example, for everyone is a bad company BUT they did also FFVII Remake and that alone balance all the negatives...
 
Totally agree
They would also imrpove A LOT their corporate image.

Look at Square Enix for example, for everyone is a bad company BUT they did also FFVII Remake and that alone balance all the negatives...
I'll rather consider both Sega and Square Enix as good/chaotic aligned. But that's an interestig point, maybe Sega looks at Shenmue IP as a joker card, same as Square did with VII Remake. It could be the real reason behind Sega pulling down S1&2 Full Remakes and shifting in favour of just HD ports. Saving it for finantially critical times.
 
It hurts because as much as we love Sega, we also know this things are Sega's things. The schrodinger company, good and wicked at the same time.
Sega is cool but also not cool at all.
Also I believe there's still many people inside the company, veterans, who resent Shenmue ("We sunked because that pharaonic expensive project!" and similar false statements).
My belief is that Yu Suzuki has been labeled as difficult to work with. When YS was making arcade games in the 80's all the way up to Virtua Fighter, it was tolerable since he was working with a smaller team. With Shenmue, he was in contact with a lot of different teams and resources. To your point, I think there's a lot of resentment inside Sega towards Yu. Given how important he is to the history of that company, they don't want to jettison him completely but it's very obvious they are keeping YS at arm's length.

I wish I could find the video. But there's a clip out there somewhere where it shows YS smoking a cigarette with Final Fantasy VIII in the background berating the shit out of some co-workers. If this type of demeanor was consistent during Shenmue's development cycle, then this would make sense as to why Shenmue is so resented within Sega. Albeit there are some within Sega that are very proud of what they accomplished with this game.

Before he departed SEGA, Nagoshi has also made very not so subtle hints that him and YS couldn't co-exist if they were to make another project again.
 
Honestly I'd have thought that in between the countless Sonic and Yakuza games, they may have shown Shenmue some love and greenlit S4. With all the money they throw at those franchises, they could have had Shenmue finished by now.

Sonic and Yakuza are safe investments for Sega. Shenmue 4 is a unknown. Financially for Sega its probably not worth the risk. Only reason we got Shenmue 1&2 was cause of the hype of Shenmue 3 Kickstarter.
 
I think in general it is very hard to compare the market, budget and the way of working / thinking
of 90's - 2010 and most recent modern games.

A lot of things that were considered completely normal back then,
are pretty much a no go today. And thats going to lead to different outcomes and projects.
Not better or worse projects but just how different budgets were back then and how nobody gave a sh*t
about working hours and so on. You could do some pretty expensive but experimental stuff back then
because the market was pretty clueless about success. And because clueless companies wanted to jump on that videogame market train, it was actually not that hard to get a very decent budget for very weird games.
(weird by todays standards)

Nowadays its pretty clear what each genre should offer and how polished some
AAA first party game should be and the budget of these games is ridiculous high.
Which then leads to less expensive experimental games because
its already established which content is going to make money.
No company on this planet is going to give you 60 mil USD for some experiment nowadays.

There is a german game example, the two RPG games Gothic 1 and Gothic 2.
These games were released in 2001 and 2002
and even today they still get voted into the top 10 all time RPG favorite games in Germany,
Poland, Czech Republic, Russia ... Gothic 2 even got a brand new fan mod in 2021.

And do you know how they made these games back then? It was made by actual computer nerds,
not like modern trendy nerds, no, actual 90's nerds who worked night and day on these projects.
Not because someone forced them, but because they wanted to do it.
They released Gothic 1 and then they made the way way bigger Gothic 2 in only 9 months
and a full add on in 6 months. And do you know how they were able to put all of this work in such short time frame? Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch.
They basically lived in their 'offices'. They worked extra hours every single day.
Thats what was going on in developer offices back then. By free will or forced by the publisher.
And you can bet that something like this was going on in the development team of Shenmue too,
especially if you keep in mind how expensive that whole thing was.
This was not some kind of work at a desk with fresh flowers and sunshine in your face.

Again, its not about supporting this or that, but i'm pretty sure that this way of thinking
on how to make games back then and how they handle this stuff today,
totally leads to different projects.
The times of actual computer nerds working their asses of for actual unique and fresh games is over.
There is no need for them because their work established todays gaming standards.
People working in the top studios today are simply doing their job.
Todays big video game market with its top developers and publishers has nothing to do
with the market of 2001.

So if you think that publisher X should just get the same team as 20 years ago
and just re create this same unique thing again but more modern or unique but fresh ...
chances are extremely high that its not going to work.
These special type of games back then worked, because they were products of their time.
Think about what type of games are considered normal by todays standards,
GTA 5, RDR 2, Skyrim, Elden Ring, ...
you are never ever going to impress todays audience with a Shenmue game or some german RPG.
Imagine how high the budget and quality / detail level has to be to keep up with todays standards,
especially the AAA market.
Its not going to work on the same level as in 2001.
 
My belief is that Yu Suzuki has been labeled as difficult to work with. When YS was making arcade games in the 80's all the way up to Virtua Fighter, it was tolerable since he was working with a smaller team. With Shenmue, he was in contact with a lot of different teams and resources. To your point, I think there's a lot of resentment inside Sega towards Yu. Given how important he is to the history of that company, they don't want to jettison him completely but it's very obvious they are keeping YS at arm's length.

I wish I could find the video. But there's a clip out there somewhere where it shows YS smoking a cigarette with Final Fantasy VIII in the background berating the shit out of some co-workers. If this type of demeanor was consistent during Shenmue's development cycle, then this would make sense as to why Shenmue is so resented within Sega. Albeit there are some within Sega that are very proud of what they accomplished with this game.

Before he departed SEGA, Nagoshi has also made very not so subtle hints that him and YS couldn't co-exist if they were to make another project again.
This it (timestamped at the scene I think you are referencing)?


I don't see him berating them, and I don't think Nagoshi quite framed it as negatively as you say, unless I missed something, but it's no secret that Shenmue and YS were kind of a bear...I'm sure many are proud of it, but I'm sure there is also a feeling of "whew, glad that one's out the door" among many team members.

One of the reasons I respect Suzuki - san is that he is so uncompromising...I teach music, and many of my best mentors have been the same way. I try to emulate that sentiment of chasing perfection, knowing that no matter how close you get, it will always be out of reach.
 
Sonic and Yakuza are safe investments for Sega. Shenmue 4 is a unknown. Financially for Sega its probably not worth the risk. Only reason we got Shenmue 1&2 was cause of the hype of Shenmue 3 Kickstarter.

It's still their franchise at the end of the day and one that really needs seeing through to the end.
Were there any other Sega franchises like Shenmue that didn't see the story finished?
They could have put in a fraction of the budget of a Sonic and Yakuza game to help get the franchise concluded, with Yu securing funding from other parties if need be. They even poured $20 million into Shenmue Online that never saw release.
Sega had no involvement in S3 except for lending Yu the license.
It's about time they pulled their socks up and helped the franchise get the conclusion it deserves.
 
It's still their franchise at the end of the day and one that really needs seeing through to the end.
Were there any other Sega franchises like Shenmue that didn't see the story finished?
They could have put in a fraction of the budget of a Sonic and Yakuza game to help get the franchise concluded, with Yu securing funding from other parties if need be. They even poured $20 million into Shenmue Online that never saw release.
Sega had no involvement in S3 except for lending Yu the license.
It's about time they pulled their socks up and helped the franchise get the conclusion it deserves.

They didn't even let Yu use Sega likeness for capsule toys or arcade games. That's very telling imo I remember being shocked and confused at this decision and I believe it took away from the experience.
 
They had something to do with a bit of marketing and merchandising in Japan...still wonder if this was just them simply trying to milk a bit of cash, or what...
 
I wouldn't necessarily say that Sega should fund Shenmue IV for their image and the fact they also fund countless Sonic and Yakuza sequels, since they're a business at the end of the day and Sonic/Yakuza have been pretty successful.

For me it's the fact that they've spent a lot of money on a bunch of other failed projects where I have a hard time seeing how those were a better investment than Shenmue III to V. Games like Sakura Wars, Shining Resonance Refrain, Valkyria Revolution, etc., let alone many more games the past 10-15 years.
 
After Shenmue 2 Sega went silent on Shenmue. They probably were irritated when they used to drop those surveys asking us what games we wanted and Shenmue was always at the top. I remember when Shenmue 3 got announced I read a article about Sega saying Shenmue 1&2 was already in the plans before Shenmue 3. I call BS it don't take 15 years to port Shenmue 1&2 🤣
 
They didn't even let Yu use Sega likeness for capsule toys or arcade games. That's very telling imo I remember being shocked and confused at this decision and I believe it took away from the experience.
Ah not quite YSNET didn't have the funds for it
 
It really is a mystery to why sega gave up on shenmue, i know it was a huge financial flop but i would have thought they could have seen the potential there is and maybe made a yakuza zero style version of shenmue 1 & 2 and maybe reused the assets to make shenmue 3 and maybe 4 and 5. (i have no idea on video game production but that seems to be what they do with the yakuza games)
I cant help but feel the shenmue has been let down by them, the remasters of shenmue 1 & 2 were minimal effort and difficult to persuade new players they should try. IMO shenmue 3 was a bad game that just stalled the series even more, i know people will disagree with me and sure it had its moments but will segas backing it could have had the extra polish it needed and maybe theyd have pushed the story more than they did if theyd have believed theyd have a bigger chance with shenmue 4.
i think the best chance to bring shenmue to a bigger audience would be going back to the originals and doing a real remake and sort of let some of the nostalgic things go, i know we all love the voice acting style and the other charming things that bring back memories of 1999 but those things only appeal to such a niche audience and they are so, so dated its a hard sell to people even next to yakuza or whatever.

i dream of learning iron palm from jianmin and see the leaves fall from the tree with todays graphics
 
No no what I meant about resentment towards Shenmue and Yu-san was more in tone with equivalent Gunpei Yokoi in Nintendo. One expensive failure (Virtual Boy) and all his previous and future achievements were always shadowed inside the company. That ostracism mood was what led him to Bandai with WonderSwan project. Same for Yu-san emancipating to his own company, just imagine the hit he felt when AM2 R&D was shut.
I heard about the presumed attitude of Yu many times, I didn't checked that though but it sounds to me that there's a mix of ex-employees resented backslash and cherry picking with bad days. But Im very much biased, I loved and I still do what Warp and Kenji Eno meant to videogames and graphics programming in general, and also a huge '90s symbol, so I'm ok with that. A normal day at Warp: Kenji Eno touch your ear with a grease pencil/magic wand while filming you in minidv, he is happy now. 30 min later Eno rush into the studio turning tables with PCs and the shit. Rock on dude. Im those guys dog. Bias Bias everywhere.
 
Sega is risk averse and YS hasn’t proven another Shenmue is worth the risk to them, but obviously they’ll take any royalty they can from their license. I do believe they’d green light some sort of spin-off involving RGg, but never a full sequel.
 
I dunno if SEGA is as risk adverse as they used to be, but they're still making some bad decisions as a result of management chasing trends instead of focussing on the strength of their IP back catalogue; which is why you get something like Hyenas and not Shenmue IV out of them.

IMO, the Shenmue IP has proved that it is worth taking a punt on again, and a lot of hard work bringing the series back from the dead has been accomplished between the ports, Shenmue III, and the anime. I just think the true blockade to Shenmue continuing at SEGA in game form will be historic stigma against the project for mostly unfair reasons, and that'll likely never change.
 
I mean, when a E3 event Shenmue hype, a record number kickstarter campaign
and funding + publishing by Segas own EU distributor (Koch Media) doesnt get Sega involved
then nothing will get them on board.

Like, how is any scenario going to beat that as a new starting point? That was the hype top peak level.
That was the perfect point for them to at least say alright lets co produce this with Deep Silver
(a company that is already a partner of Sega for years now)
And yet, Sega still said nope.
 
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