Kickstarter Update #102 - PC Gaming Show Update: New Trailer & Epic Games Store Exclusive For PC Version! Part 2

GhostTrick said:
System requirements can change yes. But this has nothing to do with System Requirements. If Fangamer offered as a choice "PC Digital" and "PC Physical" with Steam in the Requirements, you'd be right.

But the item name was "Steam Digital" and "Steam Physical".

This has nothing to do with the Requirements which indeed can change. Legally that "System requirements can change" has nothing to do with the item being a Steam key. Nothing.
Click to expand...

This is a question to anyone - I haven't had this happen to me personally, but how have Kickstarted games with Fangamer surveys handled it in the past when the game was announced for a platform that it never came to (like Wii U). Was the platform change announced before the survey, or did the survey say "Wii U Physical" or similar with the cancellation announced afterwards? That'd be interesting to know for the past.

I also wonder if YsNet provided that exact wording ("Steam Physical" and "Steam Digital") to Fangamer, or if they made that decision. If Fangamer did, I imagine Deep Silver will try to drag them into this.
 
Shadow2222 said:
This is a question to anyone - I haven't had this happen to me personally, but how have Kickstarted games with Fangamer surveys handled it in the past when the game was announced for a platform that it never came to (like Wii U). Was the platform change announced before the survey, or did the survey say "Wii U Physical" or similar with the cancellation announced afterwards? That'd be interesting to know for the past.
Click to expand...



It was after. And people were either offered platform change or refunds.
 
Shadow2222 said:
is any hardcore fan really going to reflect and say, "well, I really wanted Shenmue IV but it was worth it to prove a point?"
Click to expand...
I don't think that's going to happen, I think most of us here are willing to go wherever we need to go and pay whatever we need to pay for Shenmue 3. I more worried about losing potential sales from people who aren't already fans. Obviously S4 can't materialize on just the sales of the hardcore fans, we need some sales from other game consumers as well.

Thomasina said:
It's already damaged. The rapport can not be repaired. All they can do now is give people what was previously agreed.


If you look at the kickstarter comments and think everything will be fixed by giving out steam keys, you are mistaken.
Click to expand...
I agree that steam keys for backers won't resolve potential lost sales from steam or general anti-EGS boycotters, but it will at least resolve the controversy of "doing backers dirty". At the very least, that's a good improvement from where we are now.

Shadow2222 said:
This is a question to anyone - I haven't had this happen to me personally, but how have Kickstarted games with Fangamer surveys handled it in the past when the game was announced for a platform that it never came to (like Wii U). Was the platform change announced before the survey, or did the survey say "Wii U Physical" or similar with the cancellation announced afterwards? That'd be interesting to know for the past.

I also wonder if YsNet provided that exact wording ("Steam Physical" and "Steam Digital") to Fangamer, or if they made that decision. If Fangamer did, I imagine Deep Silver will try to drag them into this.
Click to expand...
For the Vita version of Bloodstained (it was canceled for those of you who don't know), we were offered a refund if we didn't want another version of the game.
 
Last edited:
Shadow2222 said:
This is a question to anyone - I haven't had this happen to me personally, but how have Kickstarted games with Fangamer surveys handled it in the past when the game was announced for a platform that it never came to (like Wii U). Was the platform change announced before the survey, or did the survey say "Wii U Physical" or similar with the cancellation announced afterwards? That'd be interesting to know for the past.

I also wonder if YsNet provided that exact wording ("Steam Physical" and "Steam Digital") to Fangamer, or if they made that decision. If Fangamer did, I imagine Deep Silver will try to drag them into this.
Click to expand...

I backed the Wii U edition of Bloodstained and was offered the opportunity to switch it to the Switch version (or any other platform for that matter). I think I could have contacted for a refund, but I wouldn't do that.

Again though, really not the same thing...
 
Reprise said:
At one point they responded to a backer's message and said the intention was for it to all be on discs. Seemed silly and impossible at the time though... It would need like 10 dvds at least (even under the assumption it won't really reach anywhere near 100gb in size)
Click to expand...
I assumed they'd put it on a custom USB stick. But that'd be expensive.
 
I am wondering what kind of money Epic may pump into marketing, etc. close to and after launch. They certainly don't want these big exclusives failing, or that will scare other devs and publishers away. If this ends up being a net gain for Shenmue and its future, then I truly apologize to those affected, but I'm glad they did it then. They do need to mirror the Phoenix Point model of offering a refund or future Steam key however.
 
i never believed the "we will put the whole game on the disc" comment.
its 2019, there are day one patches for everything, everything is being updated even weeks or months later after release
and almost no company puts more than one DVD in any Pc retail box.
not even the big AAA publishers are giving you the complete game on disc, probably not even a 1/4 of it
because the cost for the discs is not worth it. everyone has to update their retail version anyway.
so the discs are useless.
if Shenmue 3 is about 26 GB big, this would mean they have to produce like maybe four DVDs
for each box for a Kickstarter game. that just seems super unrealistic.

and i mean the placeholder requirements before that stated that you would need 100GB.
was there really anyone who believed that they would ship a Pc box with 20 DVDs?
 
Shadow2222 said:
I am wondering what kind of money Epic may pump into marketing, etc. close to and after launch. They certainly don't want these big exclusives failing, or that will scare other devs and publishers away. If this ends up being a net gain for Shenmue and its future, then I truly apologize to those affected, but I'm glad they did it then. They do need to mirror the Phoenix Point model of offering a refund or future Steam key however.
Click to expand...

Don't expect anything. A lot of EGS exclusives launched without little to no fanfare despite being promised "marketing support". What they mean by marketing is to be featured on their store not many people uses. Which is funny btw, because I feel like YsNet now has 3 marketing support deals, yet none of them is bringing any meaningful marketing support (Deep Silver being the most meaningful one... yet here we are).

Also, these exclusives failing isn't a problem, because that's exactly what Epic Games is doing: Buying copies in advance. Say for exemple, they said "We pay you 100k copies of Shenmue 3 PC in cash advance". It's basically Epic buying copies and sitting on them, hence why they have a "mega sale" going on right now, where they pay 10€ on each transactions over 15€.
 
I can imagine that Suzuki as a designer and developer was happy to get extra time to polish his game, but I feel he underestimated:

a) the animosity towards EGS exclusives
b) the effect of launching in an absolutely stacked November

Launching in August on Steam would have definitely seen far greater initial sales, regardless of the quality of the game. As a fan who is mostly indifferent about playing it on EGS or Steam, I do appreciate a more polished game on launch, but it also concerns me that the chances of a sequel are now greatly diminished. Heck, I'm already anxious to play Doom Eternal just three days after Shenmue III launches (I may wait until a week or two after launch just to play Shenmue III properly, but still).
 
Shadow2222 said:
I am wondering what kind of money Epic may pump into marketing, etc. close to and after launch. They certainly don't want these big exclusives failing, or that will scare other devs and publishers away. If this ends up being a net gain for Shenmue and its future, then I truly apologize to those affected, but I'm glad they did it then. They do need to mirror the Phoenix Point model of offering a refund or future Steam key however.
Click to expand...
Could it ever be enough to make up for this bad PR? It's mayhem on Steam and YouTube. Kickstarter has always been a hole in the ground for trolls to shout into, only marginally more hysterical now.
 
warbb said:
Could it ever be enough to make up for this bad PR? It's mayhem on Steam and YouTube. Kickstarter has always been a hole in the ground for trolls to shout into, only marginally more hysterical now.
Click to expand...

Which makes me think they must be offering a stupid amount of money for exclusives.
 
jasonorme666 said:
Which makes me think they must be offering a stupid amount of money for exclusives.
Click to expand...

Here's an article about the Phoenix Point exclusivity where they experienced a 191% return ahead of launch. That means the Epic deal not only paid off 100% of the development, but they also received a profit of nearly that same amount.

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/dami...eturn-thanks-to-epic-games-store-exclusivity/

If a similar deal was set up for Shenmue, then, firstly, they need to also offer refunds for those that want one, but this also could be huge for a potential Shenmue 4 if the game is already successful financially before it launches.

I think people will forgive and forget in a year's time when the game launches on Steam (as long as they take care of the backers).
 
Shadow2222 said:
Here's an article about the Phoenix Point exclusivity where they experienced a 191% return ahead of launch. That means the Epic deal not only paid off 100% of the development, but they also received a profit of nearly that same amount.

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/dami...eturn-thanks-to-epic-games-store-exclusivity/

If a similar deal was set up for Shenmue, then, firstly, they need to also offer refunds for those that want one, but this also could be huge for a potential Shenmue 4 if the game is already successful financially before it launches.

I think people will forgive and forget in a year's time when the game launches on Steam (as long as they take care of the backers).
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info, it's exactly what I've been looking for.
 
Tosh said:
@GhostTrick

i think everything was said about this topic,
if you think you have the right to receive a Steam key because you paid for it
(even tho you cant buy Kickstarter rewards and there is no guarantee or rule to receive any Kickstarter rewards
because the goal of a Kickstarter project is completing the project and not the rewards,
also everything was prepaid on the Fangamer page because you didnt pay Fangamer)
try your luck and negotiate this at the court. good luck.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply, but I have to say the ramifications go beyond that. All the drama regarding Shenmue 3 will result in the failure of the next crowdfunding campaign and consequently in us not likely seeing the end of the story, again.

This is why I think the crowdfunding option is already unrealistic.

First, I'm certain people that think they were screwed (PC backers) won't return to back Shenmue 4. I won't, but only would buy it already on stores if it has a great critical reception.

Second, things were looking badly enough since the Sony involvement criticism, but now with Epic involved too there's no chance a future Kickstarter will get half the money they got on this one. In most people's minds this is not an indie game anymore, so why back it.

Third, there won't be new backers, because in recent years the game got itself a shady reputation. If you google "Shenmue" the first things that come up are criticisms to Shenmue 3, including of its development cycle (the awful-looking animations of the first trailers), the behind-the-scenes Sony deal (which we understand is something minor but the general public thinks YS lied about this being an indie project), the Epic Games deal (getting associated with the one most criticized PC gaming company as it symbolizes anti-consumer practices), and now the talk about not fulfilling Kickstarter rewards (which is not really the case but that's how the news spread).

In the end this drama has caused that Shenmue 4's release is something that doesn't depend on the fans anymore, as further crowdfunding efforts will fail, but rather depends on the unlikely financial success of Shenmue 3 and on there being an also unlikely complete internal funding deal with Epic and Sony. We are back to the Shenmue 2 days, of relying on a miracle to see the ending of Shenmue. As such, there's a good chance that the named actions have this time actually killed the franchise for good.
 
Last edited:
I think they have burnt their bridges in regards to crowdfunding Shenmue 4.
Lets hope the Epic deal was worth it.
 
I always thought crowdfunding Shenmue IV was a long shot before all of this happened. The perfect storm was never going to happen again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top