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NEW YU SUZUKI INTERVIEW WITH THE DOJO AND PRS LIVE! READ IT HERE!
Kickstarter Project Update #103: A message from Ys Net, Epic Games & Deep Silver
- Thread starter Birty
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- Jul 28, 2018
but before you even got to that process, before you got the mail to choose your platform,
you already willingly gave your money to complete the campaign goal,
without even knowing that it would be 100% on Steam.
yes, you "ordered" a Steam version in the survey
but you only received the survey because you already willingly gave your money without knowing
if the game will be available on Steam.
a ton of people gave their money long time before Steam was mentioned anywhere.
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- Jul 28, 2018
I see now. Thanks for clearing that up for me. So there really is an over reaction to this, this whole 'I'm done with this game, I want a refund etc' is beyond shocking. The game will come to Steam apprantley at some point anyway. I have never seen such a bad response to something. Sure I can see why they would be annoyed as it was promised in a way but if it was never conventionally promised back when this whole project began then I fail to understand some people's rage. It's not that bad.
If something like this happened with the PS4, sure I would be annoyed but no way in a million years would I abandon a game we've waited so long for. Again, they are valid in their disappointment, being annoyed or angry because Epic Games store does take up quite a lot of memory. I just checked.
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ShaveShenmue
Is that so....?
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- Aug 21, 2018
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- Shenmue II
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- Returnal, Yakuza 3 , lake.
Never seen shenmue fans fighting among themselves so much. This not so 'epic' update was the worst thing to happen to shenmue 3
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- Aug 9, 2018
Every fanbase has their upheavals. Some worse than others, just ask the Star Wars fans how they feel about the unity of their community ever since The Last Jedi was released. In my opinion the only reason things haven't blown up before now is because we didn't have anything new to talk about.
Shenmue 1 and 2 are a known quality. You got a Dreamcast and you got the game(s) and then you joined the community. Shenmue 3 though is a whole new journey and not all of us are starting from the same place. Even so I think that most will come around by November.
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- Feb 7, 2019
At least for Deep Silver, they pushed the game further in quality.
As for Sony and Epic, I have yet to see a meaningful impact from them.
Sony basically got the E3 hype announcement, since then posted 2 trailers on their channel.
Epic basically helped Deep Silver recoup part of their investment earlier.
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- Jul 28, 2018
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- Shenmue IIx
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- Ghost of Tsushima
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- mjqjazzbar
Sony probably got the Kickstarter to two million in world record breaking time. That’s what their involvement did in my eyes.
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- Aug 13, 2018
Did they? This fanbase was basically making a Shenmue III bank savings emergency account for over a decade in case YS asked for our help. I believe we would break the record regardless.
Sony just saw it as an opportunity to have good PR instead of let's say have a naughty dog small team work with YS to realize his vision.
Sony's involvement was strictly marketing(stage and YouTube) and maybe a modest sum to secure an exclusivity period. Their impact does not reach any further than that.
As far as prior to the Fangamer survey, that is essentially moot. Once the surveys had gone out and the campaign had closed, the decisions were made. Those were your choices. End of story.
It's like I told my best friend, who also happened to be a Shenmue fan and one of the reasons we hit it off freshman year of college--
Let's say you put down...$150 on a Collector's Edition of Shenmue III for the Dreamcast, if it was real, years ago.
You're excited. You can't wait--then, all of a sudden, in comes Microsoft with a big fat checkbook and scoops up the rights. Your version disappears in an instant.
"Oh, sorry. Sucks to be you. Buy an Xbox if you wanna play it."
You don't want to buy an Xbox. Can't afford it, it's got flaws you don't really care for(lack of first party, glitches, whatever). But you don't have a choice--oh, and where you reserved Shenmue has strict policy. You can't get your money back.
You would be heated also. Probably very much so I would wager.
It's not a 1:1 comparison, but you see the same things.
As far as prior to the Fangamer survey, that is essentially moot. Once the surveys had gone out and the campaign had closed, the decisions were made. Those were your choices. End of story.
It's like I told my best friend, who also happened to be a Shenmue fan and one of the reasons we hit it off freshman year of college--
Let's say you put down...$150 on a Collector's Edition of Shenmue III for the Dreamcast, if it was real, years ago.
You're excited. You can't wait--then, all of a sudden, in comes Microsoft with a big fat checkbook and scoops up the rights. Your version disappears in an instant.
"Oh, sorry. Sucks to be you. Buy an Xbox if you wanna play it."
You don't want to buy an Xbox. Can't afford it, it's got flaws you don't really care for(lack of first party, glitches, whatever). But you don't have a choice--oh, and where you reserved Shenmue has strict policy. You can't get your money back.
You would be heated also. Probably very much so I would wager.
It's not a 1:1 comparison, but you see the same things.
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- Aug 1, 2018
It’s not really a fair comparison. That’s more like the Yooka-Laylee Wii U fiasco. You don’t have to pay for the Epic launcher is the difference.
But I agree with where you’re getting at. It is way too late in the game to suddenly change their minds and take Steam keys away from those anticipating Steam keys. This whole thing feels wrong.
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- Jun 1, 2019
The difference is: At the point of making the purchase (kickstarter) it wasn't clear it would be on Steam. It's like preordering for a mystery console and you just assume it would be the Dreamcast.
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- Jul 28, 2018
that comparison is not correct.
ALL of the backers who spent money on the campaign to create Shenmue 3
accepted the terms of KS. all that the campaign promised was Shenmue 3 on PC and PS4.
it took a long time until Steam was even mentioned in the requirements
and these requirements dont mean anything because its a KS campaign.
ALL of the backers willingly spent their money without any proof or promise for a Steam version.
then in 2018 ALL backers were only able to choose Steam in the survey
BECAUSE you already gave your money, without knowing if it would come to Steam or not.
looking just at the KS and Slacker Backer page, all you "paid for" was a PC version.
if you only supported Shenmue 3 because you naively assumed it would be available on Steam
"because it makes sense", its technically your own fault because you can read in the KS terms
that all of this can change at any time. you accepted these conditions.
by the time you paid, you couldnt know if there was a Steam version or not
but still you willingly paid.
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As I said, it isn't a 1:1 comparison.
Again, we go back to the adage that perception is reality. If it is perceived a Steam copy was promised or a selectable option, that is the reality of it.
In the eyes of many customers it was a bait and switch.
You cannot alter this fact in their minds, no matter what you try to do. You may be in the right--you could very well be. But take it from a vet in customer service--the customer will always win in the end in some way.
Companies don't want bad PR..no one does. Once it gets to that point, they have to take action. That is why YsNet had to acknowledge the issue. Once an issue reaches PR level, it becomes another thing entirely.
No matter what YsNet does, the damage was catastrophic to Deep Silvers reputation, Shenmue, and Kickstarter as well.
Customers feel very burned because of this. In some way, the customers must be taken care of in some form.
I would hope, if they offer refunds, Epic reimburses at a 1:1 so they don't take such a hit, but I don't know the best solution here.
Again, we go back to the adage that perception is reality. If it is perceived a Steam copy was promised or a selectable option, that is the reality of it.
In the eyes of many customers it was a bait and switch.
You cannot alter this fact in their minds, no matter what you try to do. You may be in the right--you could very well be. But take it from a vet in customer service--the customer will always win in the end in some way.
Companies don't want bad PR..no one does. Once it gets to that point, they have to take action. That is why YsNet had to acknowledge the issue. Once an issue reaches PR level, it becomes another thing entirely.
No matter what YsNet does, the damage was catastrophic to Deep Silvers reputation, Shenmue, and Kickstarter as well.
Customers feel very burned because of this. In some way, the customers must be taken care of in some form.
I would hope, if they offer refunds, Epic reimburses at a 1:1 so they don't take such a hit, but I don't know the best solution here.
While the KS and slacker page didn’t say steam - this is true - they definitely advertised steam as being a part of Shenmue III. It even has a steam page and has had one for quite some time.
You can say,”you don’t know what you’re getting”, but that does not change that the game has a full on steam page, had been advertised as coming to the platform, and was ultimately included on the survey, which, yes, is an order confirmation.
While technically true, everything pointed to the game being on steam.
Again, here’s the steam page.
store.steampowered.com
Most people would think it pretty scummy to suddenly change a platform six five months before release when you’ve been saying it’ll come out elsewhere for years.
Whether it was part of the original plan or not, they ultimately decided to go with Steam to the point where it was a part of the actual confirmation order.
No matter what excuses you make:
“It wasn’t part of the Kickstarter or slackerbacker”
“Kickstarters are subject to change.”
This doesn’t change the fact it’s a pretty shitty thing to do.
Toss in their inability to express the deal was time exclusive, your previous steam order doesn’t count and you’ll have to rebuy what you’ve already bought and you have a giant shit sandwich.
Because let’s be honest, the DC and Wii U arguments don’t fully work out. They’re dead systems. Wii U especially was dead when Yooka Layley came out and most Nintnedo diehards (who backed the game) had already moved on to switch anyways. Steam however is alive and very well.
You can say,”you don’t know what you’re getting”, but that does not change that the game has a full on steam page, had been advertised as coming to the platform, and was ultimately included on the survey, which, yes, is an order confirmation.
While technically true, everything pointed to the game being on steam.
Again, here’s the steam page.
Shenmue III on Steam
Shenmue III sees the eagerly anticipated continuation of the epic story-driven saga. Take control of Ryo Hazuki, a teenage martial artist, determined to unravel the mystery behind his father's murder and to exact revenge on the killer.
Most people would think it pretty scummy to suddenly change a platform six five months before release when you’ve been saying it’ll come out elsewhere for years.
Whether it was part of the original plan or not, they ultimately decided to go with Steam to the point where it was a part of the actual confirmation order.
No matter what excuses you make:
“It wasn’t part of the Kickstarter or slackerbacker”
“Kickstarters are subject to change.”
This doesn’t change the fact it’s a pretty shitty thing to do.
Toss in their inability to express the deal was time exclusive, your previous steam order doesn’t count and you’ll have to rebuy what you’ve already bought and you have a giant shit sandwich.
Because let’s be honest, the DC and Wii U arguments don’t fully work out. They’re dead systems. Wii U especially was dead when Yooka Layley came out and most Nintnedo diehards (who backed the game) had already moved on to switch anyways. Steam however is alive and very well.
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- Jul 28, 2018
i'm not saying that this was a nice move or anything
i'm just pointing out that EVERY BACKER spent their money on this project willingly
BEFORE there was any Steam confirmation order.
you only thought it will be available on Steam BECAUSE you were able to choose Steam in the survey
BUT you only received the survey BECAUSE you already paid.
so you paid before you could even know that it will be available on Steam and you accepted it.
the listed requirements dont matter because its part of the KS conditions that all of the details can change.
just because there is a Steam page (that was nowhere listed on the KS or Slacker Backer page)
it doesnt mean aynthing.
yes, its not a nice move but still - ALL BACKERS paid for a PS4 or PC version. nothing else was promised.
and ALL BACKERS accepted these conditions.
i'm just pointing out that EVERY BACKER spent their money on this project willingly
BEFORE there was any Steam confirmation order.
you only thought it will be available on Steam BECAUSE you were able to choose Steam in the survey
BUT you only received the survey BECAUSE you already paid.
so you paid before you could even know that it will be available on Steam and you accepted it.
the listed requirements dont matter because its part of the KS conditions that all of the details can change.
just because there is a Steam page (that was nowhere listed on the KS or Slacker Backer page)
it doesnt mean aynthing.
yes, its not a nice move but still - ALL BACKERS paid for a PS4 or PC version. nothing else was promised.
and ALL BACKERS accepted these conditions.
That's fine as long as you recognize why people are mad and can admit that this move isn't the nicest. I think we can come to that compromise.
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- Jul 28, 2018
of course i can.
but still just because you assumed and thought and there was a Steam page and so on,
doesnt mean that one thing is more right than the other.
and of course, if they dont want any negative PR they just need to send Steam keys out.
no other way around it.
but if you look at it with all the terms and conditions, its not really like YS Net or Deep Silver did anything 100% wrong.
but still just because you assumed and thought and there was a Steam page and so on,
doesnt mean that one thing is more right than the other.
and of course, if they dont want any negative PR they just need to send Steam keys out.
no other way around it.
but if you look at it with all the terms and conditions, its not really like YS Net or Deep Silver did anything 100% wrong.
"Just because you assumed".
Nuh uh.
With the Kickstarter I can give you a pass and claim it's an assumption. After all, it just said "PC".
But after the survey it is no longer an assumption, it is a confirmation. It even has its own Steam page.
While you can technically claim they didn't break terms and conditions, it is a massive breach of trust: you paid for something - confirmed the order, even - and now you're not getting it. It's on another shop, and your original order is now Void, in a way, replaced with something else. And now if you want the original order you had you'll have to rebuy it on Steam.
With a big, popular franchise like Metro you can get away with this.
With a small, niche franchise that forced its creator to literally beg for the project to be made and get a publisher? That is more tied to its fanbase than any other? It's a death knell and a serious bad move to make.
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- Jul 27, 2018
I don't really see the comparison to be honest...
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