Kickstarter Project Update #103: A message from Ys Net, Epic Games & Deep Silver

[Peter]

Very sad to see after all we built up.

This. This is all I can feel with each day that passes and as I read each comment. Sadness.

There's no point even giving the opinion that things will be ok. There's no point bringing up ANY of the years we have spent waiting on this. Any of the efforts we made to keep Shenmue relevant. Any of the money amounts we threw at digital Ryo Jackets, LPs with the soundtracks on them, statues, clothes, votes in campaigns for Shenmue music and most wanted lists, monthly tweetathons with messages of support, pieces of artwork, videos of hope and positivity. Any of the efforts to keep this site alive, as well as strengthen bonds along with other like minded Shenmue brands, and develop a community.

It was all done for the one purpose, and the one dream we had to finally come true after a decade and a half of our lives. Since the day the dream was achieved, the pendulum swung in the other direction and it became increasingly embarrassing to see what now seems to be the "definition" of a Shenmue fan. Complaining about not getting this theme, or these trinkets, or something in a box, that it wont be on a piece of software for a year, that no one knows what they are doing and you know everything, that Shenmue is dead and Yu Suzuki should be dead along with it.

The sheer feriousness and entitlement of some so called fans has forced me to the brink of turning my back and not wanting a single thing to do with any of you. I am thankful to the few people I speak to privately who still share the same love and passion for this series today, as much as they did yesterday, and last week, and last year, AND the last decade. Those are the people I will speak to in the interim, to make sure my love and passion for Shenmue remains somewhat intact.

If you feel like quoting this with a message saying, "I understand your feeling, BUT..." please don't bother. I tried to help behind the scenes last week, and will continue to try and help. I will also continue to work behind the scenes and keep adding to this site, as well as work with the staff. But as for engaging with a lot of you here who have went on for days and days chasing your own tail in circles, then forget it. I won't jepordise my love for this series by getting involved with the absolute selfish entitlement which a lot of you are thriving on at the moment. I may own this place, but that doesn't change the fact I am a Shenmue fan, and continue to support Shenmue and YSNET through all of this, unlike some, and I also sympathise with the people who feel the same, but choose not to post their feelings out of fear of being shouted off the internet by the pitchfork culture that's infected the Shenmue fan base.

I am not giving up on Shenmue, Yu Suzuki, or The Shenmue Dojo. That will never happen. I am giving up on those "fans" who have shown their true colours in all of this, and shown that their real loyalty lies somewhere that isn't truly with this series or its creator.

 

[DigitalDuck]

Internet Explorer?

Yes, the launcher reads your Internet Explorer cookies. I don't know why.

 

[xatruio]

.....hasn't IE been defunct and obsolete since.... Windows Vista or 7? Did they reboot it right over my head?

 

[OldFarT]

Powerful stuff Peter.
I thank you for writing that and I appreciate what you and the others have done.

 

[Kyo_JP]

.....hasn't IE been defunct and obsolete since.... Windows Vista or 7? Did they reboot it right over my head?

The main Microsoft Explorer is now called Edge, you can still use IE if you need it for some pages (burocracy).

 

[Reprise]

Yes, the launcher reads your Internet Explorer cookies. I don't know why.

Do you mean it reads your internet browser cookies or it specifically reads just Internet Explorer cookies? Internet Explorer has more or less been phased out, although Microsoft do continue to add security updates for IE 11.

 

[orient]

 

[spud1897]

Lol. That tickled me. I would say be careful with it as some may get riled with it. Hopefully everyone takes it as it is. Tounge in cheek.

On a more serious note, reading the dojo history brought home just how far out of abyss this series has come. It wasnt that long ago we had nothing, now we are months from release.

This timeline shows the efforts the communities went to in order to secure Shenmue III. https://teamyu.net/Shenmue.III?action=timeline

Amongst this Epic stuff let's just remember where we came from. Yes what's happened has upset people but let's just remember that we are getting the impossible dream.

The community did that together!

 

[RiGoRmOrTiS]

This. This is all I can feel with each day that passes and as I read each comment. Sadness.

There's no point even giving the opinion that things will be ok. There's no point bringing up ANY of the years we have spent waiting on this. Any of the efforts we made to keep Shenmue relevant. Any of the money amounts we threw at digital Ryo Jackets, LPs with the soundtracks on them, statues, clothes, votes in campaigns for Shenmue music and most wanted lists, monthly tweetathons with messages of support, pieces of artwork, videos of hope and positivity. Any of the efforts to keep this site alive, as well as strengthen bonds along with other like minded Shenmue brands, and develop a community.

It was all done for the one purpose, and the one dream we had to finally come true after a decade and a half of our lives. Since the day the dream was achieved, the pendulum swung in the other direction and it became increasingly embarrassing to see what now seems to be the "definition" of a Shenmue fan. Complaining about not getting this theme, or these trinkets, or something in a box, that it wont be on a piece of software for a year, that no one knows what they are doing and you know everything, that Shenmue is dead and Yu Suzuki should be dead along with it.

The sheer feriousness and entitlement of some so called fans has forced me to the brink of turning my back and not wanting a single thing to do with any of you. I am thankful to the few people I speak to privately who still share the same love and passion for this series today, as much as they did yesterday, and last week, and last year, AND the last decade. Those are the people I will speak to in the interim, to make sure my love and passion for Shenmue remains somewhat intact.

If you feel like quoting this with a message saying, "I understand your feeling, BUT..." please don't bother. I tried to help behind the scenes last week, and will continue to try and help. I will also continue to work behind the scenes and keep adding to this site, as well as work with the staff. But as for engaging with a lot of you here who have went on for days and days chasing your own tail in circles, then forget it. I won't jepordise my love for this series by getting involved with the absolute selfish entitlement which a lot of you are thriving on at the moment. I may own this place, but that doesn't change the fact I am a Shenmue fan, and continue to support Shenmue and YSNET through all of this, unlike some, and I also sympathise with the people who feel the same, but choose not to post their feelings out of fear of being shouted off the internet by the pitchfork culture that's infected the Shenmue fan base.

I am not giving up on Shenmue, Yu Suzuki, or The Shenmue Dojo. That will never happen. I am giving up on those "fans" who have shown their true colours in all of this, and shown that their real loyalty lies somewhere that isn't truly with this series or its creator.

Let's be honest, there are quite a few rabble rousers who are working people up into a frenzy who joined either recently or shortly after the Kickstarter. There aren't many veteran members going loopy (or even posting) so try not to be too disheartened.

In my opinion it would be perfectly reasonable to restrict discussion here to the 'facts' when it comes to the Epic store specifically, rather than allowing mud slinging based on conjecture and assumptions. That would eliminate most of the circular immature arguements happening around the Epic Store.

 

[DarksideHazuki]

I don't see any mention of reading Internet Explorer cookies there at all.

It did mention the Steam data access point that you said there was "no mention of." We both know that that data is gathered for the exact same reason the browser cookies are so there's really no need to be pedantic and reduce this to a discussion of semantics. He then provided a nuanced explanation from his perspective, and pointed out that attributing this to malice when it's not even hidden is silly, and an irrational conclusion that isn't at all well-reasoned.

Yes, the launcher reads your Internet Explorer cookies. I don't know why.

There's plenty of pretty obvious reasons a corporation running a storefront specifically trying to sell you as many games as possible would want to read your Steam data and browser cookies. Seeing which games you own and play, seeing which websites you've visited and what your interests are etc., in order to market their products and services more effectively. You agree to all of this when you sign up. It's outlined very clearly in their privacy policy.

You can disagree with them doing this, and think that it's morally wrong and I would agree 100%. But when you have people kicking off massively over this saying it's absolutely unheard of and shocking, that Tencent are backed by the Chinese government and are using it to sell your personal information to third parties at their behest, and all sorts of insane tin-foil hat nonsense, it's tedious and boring and most importantly it's completely unfounded. They're often saying this whilst logged into their bloody Facebook/Twitter/Twitch accounts. I find that hilarious because this is absolutely standard practice with all of these companies - check all of their privacy policies, it's there plain as day. This is what you have to agree to in order to use these services.

From my perspective, it's just corporations being scummy and harvesting your data in order to market more efficiently and make more money. Capitalism is shit, shocking I know. But it's not Chinese Gubment spyware installing keyloggers and infecting your machine with trojans.

There's plenty of very reasonable discussions to be had around the morality of what they're actually doing, and I have a lot of time for those discussions. I feel like we'd agree that people should be uncomfortable that these practices are becoming the norm. I just find it tiring when people bleat on about it being "spyware" when it quite clearly is not.

 

[GhostTrick]

Let's be honest, there are quite a few rabble rousers who are working people up into a frenzy who joined either recently or shortly after the Kickstarter. There aren't many veteran members going loopy (or even posting) so try not to be too disheartened.

In my opinion it would be perfectly reasonable to restrict discussion here to the 'facts' when it comes to the Epic store specifically, rather than allowing mud slinging based on conjecture and assumptions. That would eliminate most of the circular immature arguements happening around the Epic Store.

I think the reason why people are so divided right now is that basically, you have two kinds of backers:

• Those for whom nothing change, they'll get what they backed.
• Those for whom some stuff will change and almost feel like, depending of update 104, that they've been sold for peanuts.

 

[Bule]

On a more serious note, reading the dojo history brought home just how far out of abyss this series has come. It wasnt that long ago we had nothing, now we are months from release.

This timeline shows the efforts the communities went to in order to secure Shenmue III. https://teamyu.net/Shenmue.III?action=timeline

This is the crux of it. I may not be getting exactly what I have thought I was getting at the outset, but Shenmue 3 is just a few months from being a playable reality, and that's got to be a good thing.

Plus, I found reading the Shenmue Dojo history very interesting.

 

[RiGoRmOrTiS]

I think the reason why people are so divided right now is that basically, you have two kinds of backers:

• Those for whom nothing change, they'll get what they backed.
• Those for whom some stuff will change and almost feel like, depending of update 104, that they've been sold for peanuts.

The facts are so simple, it makes almost 90% of the actual discussion and outrage totally redundant...

1) no distribution platform was specified when people were asked to put down money on a passion project. You were willing to pledge, regardless of distribution platform, YSNet aren't changing the terms by choosing Epic, even if it's an in-flight change of plan.

2) Epic store lacks many features but plenty of people have analysed network traffic and proven it's not spyware anymore than other distribution platforms. See: Fake Outrage

3) Kickstarter is NOT A PRE-ORDER. You are not technically owed anything, if they run out of money and can't finish the project, tough. And yet here we are, mere months away from release and it's clear we are receiving a complete game. By asking for a refund you are changing the terms of your investment based on internet drama.. (childish).

So while a comment such as:

"Its a shame its not coming to Steam as I don't really like the Epic launcher"

..is a reasonable one; the utter dross coming out of some people's mouths about being "betrayed", demanding refunds.. or discussing in great negative detail what bad things must be happening "behind the scenes" with no real knowledge is just super toxic.. and a big downer.

So while most would prefer steam, it's a minor inconvenience to use the Epic launcher.. and im a little regretful over some of the things I've said on here in the heat of the moment as well.

These are "fan" forums, as such they are meant to enhance the fandom, make Shenmue even more enjoyable, it's not meant to be a totally unbiased.. if you come on here at the moment the majority of comments have the opposite effect and imo it's entirety reasonable for more aggressive moderation to take place...

 

[GhostTrick]

The facts are so simple, it makes almost 90% of the actual discussion and outrage totally redundant...

1) no distribution platform was specified when people were asked to put down money on a passion project. You were willing to pledge, regardless of distribution platform, YSNet aren't changing the terms by choosing Epic, even if it's an in-flight change of plan.

2) Epic store lacks many features but plenty of people have analysed network traffic and proven it's not spyware anymore than other distribution platforms. See: Fake Outrage

3) Kickstarter is NOT A PRE-ORDER. You are not technically owed anything, if they run out of money and can't finish the project, tough. And yet here we are, mere months away from release and it's clear we are receiving a complete game. By asking for a refund you are changing the terms of your investment based on internet drama.. (childish).

So while a comment such as:

"Its a shame its not coming to Steam as I don't really like the Epic launcher"

..is a reasonable one; the utter dross coming out of some people's mouths about being "betrayed", demanding refunds.. or discussing in great negative detail what bad things must be happening "behind the scenes" with no real knowledge is just super toxic.. and a big downer.

So while most would prefer steam, it's a minor inconvenience to use the Epic launcher.. and im a little regretful over some of the things I've said on here in the heat of the moment as well.

These are "fan" forums, as such they are meant to enhance the fandom, make Shenmue even more enjoyable, it's not meant to be a totally unbiased.. if you come on here at the moment the majority of comments have the opposite effect and imo it's entirety reasonable for more aggressive moderation to take place...

Except for many, it's more than a minor inconvenience. You're also skipping in the most important part: Fangamer orders. Which are actually what people are standing on. It doesn't matter what the kickstarter said. The only legal thing that matters is the fangamer order. Hence why people were allowed to choose platforms, regions and every détails on Fangamer. Because they've put an order there.

I get it and I agree : Kickstarter isn't a preorder. Kickstarter doesn't owe you anything.

But it's not a pass either or an excuse for any behaviour or mismanagement.

 

[RiGoRmOrTiS]

Except for many, it's more than a minor inconvenience.

Look at that text book example of conjecture. Elaberate how it's more than a minor inconvenience.. actually don't because we know it's only minor.. and I'm sure the example will be some hypothetical example of where the installer failed or someone's account got hacked because they didn't have dual factor setup.

You're also skipping in the most important part: Fangamer orders. Which are actually what people are standing on. It doesn't matter what the kickstarter said. The only legal thing that matters is the fangamer order.

Really? You think the survey (not order) was legally binding? citation required for the legality, otherwise this is more assumptions and conjecture..

But it's not a pass either or an excuse for any behaviour or mismanagement.

Picking Epic games as a launcher is tone deaf... but that's all you can really say. That's not tantamount to mismanagement... What's your citation for that little nugget? Well that would be more conjecture wouldn't it! Just like if I said the money from Epic is allowing them three additional months of development time to add more features to the game.... That would be an example of good management as they've made a deal to deliver an even better product to you.... do we know that's the case? Nope! But you get the idea I'm sure..

Your whole post is a perfect example of where heavier moderation would be beneficial. So that's the last thing I'll say on this because I've seen how a lot of these "discussions" just go back and forth.

People need to grow up and stop wallowing in negativity like it sustains their existence.

 

[DarksideHazuki]

Man, this is probably the most well-made, most-informed and nuanced summary of the situation I've seen on Youtube.

Pretty good video.

 

[spud1897]

Right I'm jumping in here.

The way the staff choose to moderate is always under discussion. We made the decision to let people discuss this freely not only because of the controversial nature of the issue but because we want to promote free discussion.

Any posts deemed out of order have been dealt with accordingly. If there are any that have been missed then the report function is there to flag these posts to us.

Now I'm putting this simply. The mud slinging, name calling and everything else stops here and that goes to both sides of the discussion. Otherwise the topic will be locked.

 

[Bule]

Except for many, it's more than a minor inconvenience. You're also skipping in the most important part: Fangamer orders. Which are actually what people are standing on. It doesn't matter what the kickstarter said. The only legal thing that matters is the fangamer order. Hence why people were allowed to choose platforms, regions and every détails on Fangamer. Because they've put an order there.

I'm not sure about this part. Fangamer is the fulfilment partner. They took control of pledge upgrades. But they personally didn't take any money from us. The money went straight to YsNet. Fangamer is like a holding area for pledges, an intermediary. They got paid by YsNet probably for this service, but our pledge upgrade money didn't go to Fangamer, it went to YsNet. At least as I understand it.

 

[B-Man]

Another YouTube video that actually speaks some truth! Yeah, this whole ordeal has made me completely lose respect for people like Rich from ReviewTechUSA and YongYea.

 

[shibeouya]

Come on people, we are at a time where we should be celebrating! The game is finally releasing after so many long years, isn't that incredible?

There's no need to be at each other's throats - we may have differences in opinions between the different "sides", but we are all united in our fandom and I think it's fair to say we are all looking forward to playing the game regardless of what our feelings are right now. Let's try to be a bit more positive and not try to pass either side as the one and only truth, shall we?