Where U think the source of Haters originated from???

[Down by Law]

No one should be gatekeeping a franchise like this that needs all the support it can get.

It doesn't matter if you've been here 15 years or 15 minutes. Considerate praise or criticism should always be welcomed.

 

[Suzaku]

Waterworld and Postman were actually very good movies that both suffered from many conjectures (too much marketing for the first one, deceptive marketing for the second).

Waterworld had more flaws because of the artistic dispute between the director and Costner, but it's really difficult to say anything thoroughly negative: funny villain (Denis Hopper is brilliant), believable world-building, good pace, entertaining, interesting enough and beautiful scenery.

The director's cut has officially been released this year (yes 2019!). Do you know why? Because the film had fans that kept sharing illegally the notorious fan-edit version (merge of the TV scenes with the theatrical version) over the years.

However I wouldn't compare Waterworld with Shenmue too much. Waterworld only executed well a formula with some original variations. Shenmue was revolutionary.

Postman is worthier the comparison. First reason because Postman is truly a great film. Second reason, it was really innovative in the way of viewing the apocalyptic genre. While Waterworld, Mad Max and other clones were rather pessimistic in their depiction of humanity, Postman praised the social unity, the "keeps your friends close to you" at nation scale.

Amazingly, Postman shares many ideas with Death Stranding (enthusiasm for citizenship, social motivation for rebuilding, story centered on postmen, addiction to help others).

I recommend to read the opinion of David Brin, the original author of the Postman novel, if you wonder what the film aimed to convey and why it was badly received at the time.

Totally agreed, never understood why The Postman and Waterworld got their bad reputation, they are both great movies and I still love them even now.
I refused to watch that episode of Jimquisition just because of that poor clickbait title.

 

[deathofaninja]

Well that's because they have different audiences. "Serious" critics tend to analyse the technical and artistic merits of a subject, whilst mainstream outlets focus more on the entertainment value.

Both approaches are perfectly valid, and people who read reviews to inform potential purchases usually do so from sources they have a consistent track record of agreeing with.

If you've experienced a piece of art or media, your personal opinion on the game is valid. That validity will never extend to why others disagree with you though. At all.

Points can be argued, debates can be constructive, but nobody can ever tell another that their enjoyment is down to blind fanboyism or their dislike is simply "haters being toxic".

Long story short: There's no conspiracy here, this topic was pointless prior to posting.

I'm sorry but if you are educated on a matter you then have an opinion. If you aren't you have a preference. That's the big difference between game and movie critics. All you have to be for a meta score for a game is an intern.

When you aren't seeing critics take any pictures outside of Bailu.... Can you call that an opinion or a preview of one?

 

[Mittens2317]

I'm sorry but if you are educated on a matter you then have an opinion. If you aren't you have a preference.

Well you clearly aren't educated in the English language, as that isn't the case at all. Sometimes a preference can be misrepresented or mislabelled as an opinion, sure, but that doesn't mean that education is the defining difference between the two.

And btw, that isn't an opinion or a preference, it's a fact.

Also, if you're looking for an argument, go elsewhere. My only replies from here on out will be insults and smart arse comments.

 

[deathofaninja]

Well you clearly aren't educated in the English language, as that isn't the case at all. Sometimes a preference can be misrepresented or mislabelled as an opinion, sure, but that doesn't mean that education is the defining difference between the two.

And btw, that isn't an opinion or a preference, it's a fact.

Also, if you're looking for an argument, go elsewhere. My only replies from here on out will be insults and smart arse comments.

All you have to do is read reviews to tell people didn't finish the game but posted a review anyway for clicks.

Without education you have a preference. I preferred George W. Bush when I was a kid because my parents said so. I got older and discovered an opinion of my own through extensive research.

Film review goes beyond pre release trailers in their medium and it shows if you read both film and video game reviews.

 

[Budgiecat]

All you have to do is read reviews to tell people didn't finish the game but posted a review anyway for clicks.

Without education you have a preference. I preferred George W. Bush when I was a kid because my parents said so. I got older and discovered an opinion of my own through extensive research.

Film review goes beyond pre release trailers in their medium and it shows if you read both film and video game reviews.

I saw a review on YouTube with two british guys; one long haired guy on the left never played the games before and the other short haired guy with glasses on the right saying he was a long time fan and he only payed 2 hours into the game and was saying it was garbage. Granted he said first impressions but I gather he already made up his mind about the game and so I just dont see the point in making a video discussing the game when you only played 2 hours in. Its damaging to the game and gives off a bad impression. Just play the entire game if you're gonna review it.

 

[Machsi]

I saw a review on YouTube with two british guys; one never played the games before and the other did saying he was a long time fan. He only payed 2 hours into the game and was saying it was garbage. Granted he said first impressions but I gather he already made up his mind about the game and so I just dont see the point in making a video discussing the game when you only payed 2 hours in. Its damaging to the game and gives off a bad impression. Just play the entire game if you're gonna review it.

I saw that same video and hated it. Youtube is more detrimental than anything.

 

[SCQ]

Spud when he comes in and kills the discussion.

 

[Schmeman]

What's shocking is that anybody is surprised that Shenmue 3 isn't reviewing well. Nobody liked the first two, why would they like the third? Y'all have to know we're in the minority here. Most people think Shenmue is archaic and boring as shit. We are the weirdos. We're not enlightened, we just like boring archaic bullshit. I know what I am.

 

[Budgiecat]

What's shocking is that anybody is surprised that Shenmue 3 isn't reviewing well. Nobody liked the first two, why would they like the third? Y'all have to know we're in the minority here. Most people think Shenmue is archaic and boring as shit. We are the weirdos. We're not enlightened, we just like boring archaic bullshit. I know what I am.

At the same time no one wants to acknowledge (and when I say no one I mean gamers and game developers) the enormous influence and inspiration Shenmue had on the industry.
I guess thats part of where the hate comes from too....

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

The dreamcast versions of Shenmue 1 and 2 were upper 80's metacritic, though. I think if 3 had a much better presentation and smoothed over the rough edges it could have been close to an 80, but where it currently sits (~70) is pretty accurate.

 

[SCQ]

The dreamcast versions of Shenmue 1 and 2 were upper 80's metacritic, though. I think if 3 had a much better presentation and smoothed over the rough edges it could have been close to an 80, but where it currently sits (~70) is pretty accurate.

I want to give it a 7 but on the other hand I have to admit that if any other games had the same issues and presentation that shenmue 3 has I would give it a 5 or 6.

 

[spud1897]

What's shocking is that anybody is surprised that Shenmue 3 isn't reviewing well. Nobody liked the first two, why would they like the third? Y'all have to know we're in the minority here. Most people think Shenmue is archaic and boring as shit. We are the weirdos. We're not enlightened, we just like boring archaic bullshit. I know what I am.

I'd have to check the reviews topic but the overall average review score is 7.5? Someone correct me if not. That's without the stupid Metacritic rating. That's not bad really.

Yes some outlets didnt like it but on the whole it's really not reviewed badly at all.

 

[Gjb1985]

You didn’t strike any of his nerves mate, it’s more a case of who the fuck are you.

This forum was filled with level headed people who kept this community alive during the dead years when there was more chance of a steak cooked medium well coming back to life then Shenmue. If you look back at the Dojo pre E3 2015 pretty much everyone who posted back then has left. The reason? People doing what you’re doing now after being here for 5 minutes, telling people how they should think and feel about a game they waited over 15 years for, after they posted on a forum dedicated to it sometimes every day for years just because they wasn’t always 100% positive about it.

As I said these were level headed people, it was a nice group. We had disagreements about what we liked about certain games including Shenmue and for the most part everyone still got along. We had laughs and even when people had tough times we was there for them and on a few occasions there was fund raising set up to help them, we was a weird little family. But now if anyone has something to say about Shenmue that isn’t in line they get jumped on and accused of stupid things like not being a fan and made to feel like they should leave by people who claim ‘we did it’ when they was off somewhere else during the dead years.

When Shenmue 3 came out I got really nostalgic for the old Dojo times and the people who posted here so reached out and got in touch with a bunch of old members to catch up. I’ve probably spoke to about 30 odd people and 3/4 of them said they don’t post here anymore because they don’t feel welcome or had enough of people who had been here 5 minutes telling them how to act. Some of these people posted for over 10 years and they don’t feel welcome because they don’t think Shenmue is better then a naked Anna Kendrick. Just looking at the non Shenmue forums now is depressing as those things are what kept the community alive in the dead years.

Yet everything you list and claim as fact is opinion at the end of the day. Those 30 odd people I said I spoke to who posted here keeping the community alive, the majority who I’ve actually spoke to about the game don’t really like it that much and don’t feel like it’s what they loved about Shenmue.

Thank you. I was on the dojo from 2003 until the new forum. I came back to share my sentiments of how bad shenmue 3 turned out, but I got lamented for being a troll by people who I never saw before.

And also can people stop using the budget as an excuse? The budget was 12 million dollars as has been confirmed by Suzuki. That is 3x less than the Witcher 3 which had amazing voice actors and their own built engine and I don't have to remind anyone how amazing that game was!

The budget is no excuse for the sorry excuse of a story and characters we got here.

 

[spud1897]

Thank you. I was on the dojo from 2003 until the new forum. I came back to share my sentiments of how bad shenmue 3 turned out, but I got lamented for being a troll by people who I never saw before.

And also can people stop using the budget as an excuse? The budget was 12 million dollars as has been confirmed by Suzuki. That is 3x less than the Witcher 3 which had amazing voice actors and their own built engine and I don't have to remind anyone how amazing that game was!

The budget is no excuse for the sorry excuse of a story and characters we got here.

Actually the engine used for Witcher 3 was a progression of the engine used in Witcher 2. Both great games. So assuming they had a few years to develop Witcher 2 they've got that plus the 4 years it took to make Witcher 3 in terms of experience. So to say they built the engine for Witcher 3 specifically is factually incorrect.

They would have had assets from previous games to use that work with that engine amongst other things so are instantly at an advantage.

YSNET had to learn unreal 4 and then build the game from scratch, though they did have old Shenmue assets kicking about.

Yes the story has its limitations as do the characters, I've explained thoughts in another post but clearly budget had a significant role in that.

 

[Sh3ppy]

And also can people stop using the budget as an excuse?

Well, not really seeing as that’s probably the single most important reason for the game being as it is.

and you’re saying the Witcher had x3 the budget s3 had? That’s a massive difference.

 

[Tomato Convenience Store]

Well, not really seeing as that’s probably the single most important reason for the game being as it is.

and you’re saying the Witcher had x3 the budget s3 had? That’s a massive difference.

Plus consider the cost of living difference between Tokyo and Warsaw, so their money goes a lot further. CD Projekt Red had a staff of 250 employees for The Witcher 3.

 

[Gjb1985]

Plus consider the cost of living difference between Tokyo and Warsaw, so their money goes a lot further. CD Projekt Red had a staff of 250 employees for The Witcher 3.

first of all you don't need any money to writer a good story and characters. There are countless examples in this. Secondly it seems most of the programmers on this game were from India. Cheapest of the cheap.

 

[9dragons]

Why are you wasting your time Gjb to to tell other People how much you do not like a certain game. Just do not like it and move one.

I do not like most popular franchises in modern gaming, and could rant them forever but I do not do it. Because I have better things to do.

 

[Guangyan Wang]

The budget was 12 million dollars as has been confirmed by Suzuki. That is 3x less than the Witcher 3 which had amazing voice actors and their own built engine and I don't have to remind anyone how amazing that game was!

I found it boring and monotonous. I was expecting something like the Elder Scrolls but ended up with a Dragon Age esque game with a smug, boring main character. If your implying its better than Shenmue 3 I completely disagree. Shenmue's world is way more real and alive than the drab landscapes of the Witcher. I don't care how great the story is; it means nothing if the game world is not fun and enjoyable to be in.