- Joined
- Feb 3, 2019
- Location
- Sydney Australia
- Favourite title
- Shenmue II
- Currently playing
- Tekken 7 (always Tekken 7)
- PSN
- danmann861
- Steam
- danielmann861
I just want to preface this by saying I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS. But the reason people think that is because of the amount of money that S3 was granted via KS and the "shady" way the KS and other deals were carried out. People believe that Suzuki is milking his fan base for money and failing to deliver an experience that lives up to his previous work (hence the Inafune comparison) and they attach a sinister motive to this--either that he took a good chunk of the money for himself or whatever. Once again, I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS, but this is why I don't think that Suzuki go the crowdfunding route again. The optics will be really bad no matter what.I noticed Phantom River Stone's interview got linked over at Neogaf.
The type of response seen on Neogaf
View attachment 7823
I shouldn't be too shocked, but FUCK THAT GUY! Yeah, I said it. Fuck that guy! In what way is Yu a manipulative scam artist?
Not to be that guy, but I just searched the Kickstarter page and the word "economy" isn't used once but 5 of the stretch goals that were met are about expanding Baisha. Granted I didn't follow development closely, I basically gave him my money and watched the trailers, so I can't speak to the intervening 4 years, but I never got the sense that this was a goal of his from the KS. This is also the kind of stuff that relates to the above post.it was pretty clear that integrating multiple gameplay systems into a deeper world economy was a big goal of his with SIII.
I just want to preface this by saying I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS. But the reason people think that is because of the amount of money that S3 was granted via KS and the "shady" way the KS and other deals were carried out. People believe that Suzuki is milking his fan base for money and failing to deliver an experience that lives up to his previous work (hence the Inafune comparison) and they attach a sinister motive to this--either that he took a good chunk of the money for himself or whatever. Once again, I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS, but this is why I don't think that Suzuki go the crowdfunding route again. The optics will be really bad no matter what.
Not to be that guy, but I just searched the Kickstarter page and the word "economy" isn't used once but 5 of the stretch goals that were met are about expanding Baisha. Granted I didn't follow development closely, I basically gave him my money and watched the trailers, so I can't speak to the intervening 4 years, but I never got the sense that this was a goal of his from the KS. This is also the kind of stuff that relates to the above post.
I noticed Phantom River Stone's interview got linked over at Neogaf.
The type of response seen on Neogaf
View attachment 7823
I shouldn't be too shocked, but FUCK THAT GUY! Yeah, I said it. Fuck that guy! In what way is Yu a manipulative scam artist?
A lot of things got axed it seems. Baisha was set to be the largest location with interesting mini games...
These comments prompted me to go back through a lot of the early Kickstarter interviews and things.Baisha was also prioritized over Niaowu and Bailu in the order of the stretch goals.
Isn't great when you ask a question and immediately you answer it? I love that feeling.If Baisha was truly the most important area of the 3 (logical as it was to be the finale of the game) why didn't YsNet START with developing Baisha and work their way backwards?
But I guess it would be odd if they ran out of money by the end and had to cut Bailu Village.... fans would have demanded Suzuki's head for cutting that!
I'm assuming that Baisha was cut because the gameplay mechanics of a strategy game with multiple perspectives was too ambitious and too hard to implement. It doesn't really explain why the entire location was scrapped, but I assume that all the story content was ported over to the Castle (ie: Niaowu would have ended with Niao Sun getting the Phoenix Mirror and Ryo saving Shenhua, then she would have told Ryo that Lan Di and Yuan were in Baisha, then everything that happens at the castle would happen at Baisha). Games aren't made in chronological order; you tackle the most expensive sequences first (in almost all the trailers you can see basically final art mocap for the fight sequences), which is why I say Baisha was likely scrapped relatively early considering its only reason for existing was to implement gameplay mechanics that were expensive and had nothing to do with the rest of the game. Though obviously that doesn't mean that we will never see that location or experience those mechanics at some point in the future.If Baisha was truly the most important area of the 3 (logical as it was to be the finale of the game) why didn't YsNet START with developing Baisha and work their way backwards?
But I guess it would be odd if they ran out of money by the end and had to cut Bailu Village.... fans would have demanded Suzuki's head for cutting that!
I didn't say it was in the original pitch. As with most KS projects, a lot can change over the course of a game's pre-production and development, especially if it lasts close to 4 and a half years. The economy was mentioned by Yu in the vast majority of pre-release interviews. It was clear it was a point of pride and focus for him.Not to be that guy, but I just searched the Kickstarter page and the word "economy" isn't used once but 5 of the stretch goals that were met are about expanding Baisha. Granted I didn't follow development closely, I basically gave him my money and watched the trailers, so I can't speak to the intervening 4 years, but I never got the sense that this was a goal of his from the KS. This is also the kind of stuff that relates to the above post.
I say Baisha was likely scrapped relatively early considering its only reason for existing was to implement gameplay mechanics that were expensive and had nothing to do with the rest of the game.
Most people have no idea how games are made and game designers are used to being very secretive (partly because games really don't come together until very late in the process) and these things don't mix well on Kickstarter; particularly when you add a language barrier and have a story focused game, rather than a more mechanics focused game. I can understand why people expect more transparency from KS projectsThose who attempt to use the original pitch as evidence of some sort of crime being committed need to grow up (not you, but I've seen it a lot). It's fine being disappointed that we didn't get Baisha -- I am, too --
Ocarina of Time famously had an entire dungeon cut (the light temple, most of which made its way to the spirit temple, which is why there are so many light-related puzzles) and was dealing with massive story changes until very late in development. Wind Waker is also a legendarily unfinished game. It does happen all the time, it's usually pretty noticeable when something is missing from games--especially games with lots of cut story content (*cough* MGSV *cough*), but it's not always a kiss of death.whole areas get cut from games all the damn time, it's just that usually we don't find out about it. It's an unfortunate reality of game development
I can only speculate but it's probably because no actual story content was cut. I assume that S3 would have ended with Ryo and the gang in the exact same spot no matter what. Baisha seems like the kind of thing that would have been axed as soon as DS got involved because its exactly the kind of thing a producer would cut (with good reason).If Baisha was scrapped early, why didn't YsNet tell the fans until only a few months before release?
I still believe that Baisha was meant to incorporate some of the cut content from Shenmue II, while acting as a bit of a climactic area for Shenmue III. It seems like they probably did start development with Baisha, considering how much it shows up in early development footage. With those things in mind, I feel like it's entirely possible that Baisha does still get used in the next game (it doesn't technically have to be located in Guilin), but it would probably be divorced from a lot of the story content that was supposed to be there in Shenmue III. I imagine most of that was incorporated into the castle area.They probably realized they were spending too much time and money on something at the expense of the rest of the game, which is probably how most game development sagas go. If it’s been cut for good, I hope we at least get a look at what it was going to be like.