110 Industries & Yu Suzuki

The thing is, you can always turn and twist these kind of things in different ways however you like
and exactly that can be used for the pro and the contra side.

So for example '110 Industries clearly not denying the Shenmue 4 rumors so Shenmue 4 must be real!'
but 'Yu Suzuki clearly denying the 110 Industries Shenmue 4 rumors,
so hes trying to keep it a secret! Exactly as with the Shenmue 3 secret'.

But at the same time you could say '110 Industries not denying the Shenmue 4 rumors
but they dont dont comment on any specific Shenmue 4 questions at all.
So they probably dont have anything else to show us.'
'Yu Suzuki clearly denying the 110 Industries Shenmue 4 rumors,
why would he do that if Shenmue 4 is real, instead he just could have refused to answer'

and so on. This stuff is not enough evidence. Everything is so vague
that you can use it for basically any personal opinion. Its more like gambling who is right and who is wrong.
 
I'd hardly call that kind of feedback "treasure"...
But keep in mind that people you are trying to cater are the ones that:

-didn't bought the game
-contributed (actively) to the hate campaign since KS
-wanted a different game

3 things that are connected...

Apart for a generic research (like Yu did back in Shenmue 1 days, when he studied the trends of the era like Final Fantasy 8 etc.), I would not give more weight than necessary to that kind of "feedback".
It's not a modern HUD or some fixes to the stamina system that will make people change attitude toward a game that is very far from their conception of "instant gratification".

Besides, Shenmue 3 is already a very friendly game when it comes to its systems and gameplay (even too much sometimes).
It's "unfriendly" (for the current audience) because of the slow paced non-guided nature, but that cannot be changed, otherwise it becomes a different game.

Honestly I don't know how you can make Shenmue more casual-friendly without destroying everything...
I’m not trying to cater to anybody, just making an observation based on what Yu said in this recent interview and several of the others that preceded it. You may view the opinions of first time players as “trash,” but the team over at YS NET clearly doesn’t. As I said in my last post, I can certainly see why they’re keen to hear from everybody who played the game rather than just fans, as only addressing the complaints of hardcore fans will likely lead to another inaccessible game that flops financially. Personally, I’d like to see them earn a profit for all of their hard work this time around and I’m sure that they would too.

Also, nowhere does he say that he will be giving more weight to feedback from one particular group of players. As far as I read it, all of the feedback will be considered when making plans for the next game as well as their own experiences, not just feedback from those who are new to the series.

The one thing that I will agree with you on is that making the game more accessible without watering down the true Shenmue experience will be incredibly challenging. I expect the eventual solution will be them having two different modes (a more traditional “Shenmue” mode and then a casual mode with quest markers and the like), but only time will tell. Whatever the best solution is though, they’re not going to find it by only looking at one side of the picture.
 
The one thing that I will agree with you on is that making the game more accessible without watering down the true Shenmue experience will be incredibly challenging. I expect the eventual solution will be them having two different modes (a more traditional “Shenmue” mode and then a casual mode with quest markers and the like), but only time will tell. Whatever the best solution is though, they’re not going to find it by only looking at one side of the picture.

This is exactly what I thought. Possibly having two different modes, one that is a bit more action intense that progresses the story without too much waiting around and a mode that is really the definitive Shenmue experience that we've all come to know and love. Could even explain why Yu was holding out for a bigger budget for S4.
 
This is exactly what I thought. Possibly having two different modes, one that is a bit more action intense that progresses the story without too much waiting around and a mode that is really the definitive Shenmue experience that we've all come to know and love. Could even explain why Yu was holding out for a bigger budget for S4.
That certainly seems like the most obvious solution. Of course, I’d prefer it if Yu ends up working some of that good old fashioned Yu Suzuki magic and comes up with a system that manages to capture the best of both worlds. I’m convinced that there’s a way to do it, but it really will take some doing. If anyone can though, it’s him.

My biggest fear is that somebody will say “let’s just make it like Yakuza” and we’ll end up with a second rate version of Nagoshi’s vision rather than a true Shenmue game. Sadly, that will likely come down to whether or not whoever publishes the next game really understands Shenmue and what makes it such a unique experience.
 
I always think it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation and a bit simplistic, kneejerk reaction to jump to the conclusion that new players want quest markers and the like, and that that is the only issue they had with the Shenmue games. There's almost a kind of patronising tone to it... "Oh it's the TikTok, Fortnite loving, instant gratification generation. Modern gamers just don't get Shenmue. They like having their hands held through games"

Shenmue isn't even a hard game. I don't see how any player can get lost in the world or would ever hit a brickwall in terms of making progress.

Personally, I think what would make Shenmue more appealing is to make it look less goofy, more interesting and more exciting. The trailers for Shenmue 3 were bad... Really bad. They need to work on the writing, the script, use a better fighting system, design and create more interesting characters (I still have no fucking idea who broom girl is or why I should care about her) and focus on creating better cinematography and better story.

I absolutely believe Yu Suzuki can do this by the way and it's not me shitting on Shenmue 3. But I just remember how that game starts... With some fairly odd, wooden conversations between Ryo and Shenhua that occured in cutscene form, but there were really abrupt transitions for seemingly no reason and points where they would just stop, stand still and talk randomly, the screen would go black and then they would be walking again. Why? And then you meet two bizarre looking guards who tell you about thugs. Not exactly a great first impression. It all felt quite archaic.

Shenmue just needs to feel a bit more modern. Conversations could be handled as the player walks in real time, like most modern games. It doesn't need to be AAA or a massive open world. But even on a budget, stuff like the above scene could have been handled much better and made to feel more authentic and engaging for the player. A new UI will help, because it really was one of the worst designed menu systems I have ever seen, but honestly stuff like that and "quest markers" are all superficial stuff in the grand scheme of things when assessing the issues Shenmue 3 had and the barriers there were for new players.
 
Also, little touches like having more branching paths (multiple paths to progress the story) and having missable extra scenes and events like the first two games would also help make the game and characters feel more alive and interesting.

When the first game came out and I had a few friends playing at the same time as me, we were always talking about different events we had seen and comparing our experiences. It made it feel like all our playthroughs were unique. Obviously stuff like that is less impressive now, but I do think it would add depth to the characters. Shenmue 3 felt very linear and simple in comparison.
 
Personally I don't see a 4th game happening at this rate as tough as it is to say/admit it the only way i see this masterpiece ending is through the anime. I would love to jump back into the beautiful virtual world that only shenmue can create. Shenmue 3 was an opportunity to bring it back in ways that could of appealled far better than what they eventually chose and deemed appropriate for a new entry but it feels like that chance was blown. Yes we have the anime and yes there is new merch but every other game that came out alongside shenmue 3 in 2019 have basically all had their respective sequels greenlit...I don't know feels like we've gone full circle again. Really hope I'm wrong though and want to finish it as a game.

I somewhat agree with you. Shenmue 4 needs a announcement this year. We don't need gameplay or trailers but we do need confirmation. You have to strike while the iron is hot. The longer you wait you risk losing momentum. Shenmue is a franchise that needs all the hype and momentum it can get.
 
I gotta say, I thought Shenmue Anime 2 was a dead cert so while worried I wasn't too concerned with the status of Shenmue IV knowing that more story was coming. However after the Crunchyroll news from the Jason Demarco interview I'm back to being on panic mode for any more Shenmue projects.

That said we still have more or less 6 months to go until the end of the year with some prominent trade shows coming up so it's not quite time to hit the last of the copium just yet IMO
 
I gotta say, I thought Shenmue Anime 2 was a dead cert so while worried I wasn't too concerned with the status of Shenmue IV knowing that more story was coming. However after the Crunchyroll news from the Jason Demarco interview I'm back to being on panic mode for any more Shenmue projects.
What did he say? I missed that interview
 
I’d like to see a bit more care taken with the conversations. It may be a translation thing but pretty much the first NPC I spoke to was an interaction that didn’t make sense. That was a little bit disappointing as a first impression. I think it’s worth ensuring they have good script writers on board to tell the story in an engaging manner. Additionally, do we really need every single NPC to have full conversations at every point in the game? It’s nice to have that extreme level of depth (and, yes, it is part of what Shenmue is) but it surely costs a lot of time and money to implement at this level? I can’t think of another game series that attempts to do this level of interaction.

I’d like to see the Ryo model closer to the original, and some of the animations tidied up (particularly the running). Hopefully this is something where they can tweak existing assets rather than start from scratch. But I feel it’s important to get these details right, particularly for newcomers, if they don’t want the game to seem too far behind modern games which are generally pretty spot on in this regard.
 
What did he say? I missed that interview

It's this excellent interview with @spud1897 linked below. I've timestamped the important part for you.


To cut a long story short, Crunchyroll being bought out by Sony effectively make them competition for Adult Swim / Toonami.

The latter want to move on a Season 2 but Crunchyroll won't share streaming metrics which is pretty important to get a S2 greenlit, nor do they want to move on with a Season 2 at the moment anyway.

Jason's company is going through reorganisationso they aren't approving new shows either.
 
Also, little touches like having more branching paths (multiple paths to progress the story) and having missable extra scenes and events like the first two games would also help make the game and characters feel more alive and interesting.

When the first game came out and I had a few friends playing at the same time as me, we were always talking about different events we had seen and comparing our experiences. It made it feel like all our playthroughs were unique. Obviously stuff like that is less impressive now, but I do think it would add depth to the characters. Shenmue 3 felt very linear and simple in comparison.
Sadly, when working on a tight budget, branching pathways don’t make a lot of sense. Why waste money on dialogue/events that a lot of players will never see? I do agree though, it would be nice to have them in the next Shenmue game as it’s this kind of thing that made the world of the first Shenmue game feel so alive.

Re; your earlier point about quest markers, I agree that they’re probably not needed for the main story, but I would like to see them do something a little with side quests. In Shenmue 3, it was way too easy too miss side quests as most of them were only available for a limited time. Worse still, there was no way of knowing if a quest was available without going right up to the quest giver. I think smaller, more densely packed maps would help in this regard, perhaps with automatic events that were triggered by Ryo’s proximity to the questgiver.
 
What did he say? I missed that interview
To be fair it’s quite a complicated and detailed answer Jason gives. Definitely worth checking out the interview as there’s lots of fascinating insight into the series. Essentially, the series was a success, but not a ‘hit’. There have been changes within the industry that cause Crunchyroll to be less inclined to continue the series. Jason is committed to doing a least a second season if his own new bosses (at Warner Discovery) will allow it. Only time will tell if this is possible.
 
I think smaller, more densely packed maps would help in this regard, perhaps with automatic events that were triggered by Ryo’s proximity to the questgiver.

Agreed. Something as simple as a questgiver NPC waving Ryo over asking to talk would do this just fine and feel natural. Shenmue's maps aren't the largest so the chances of missing it then become super slim
 
It's worth adding that Jason Demarco will be doing everything in his power to get that second season greenlit once the company mergers take place. Adultswim were happy with the performance of it and I understand it's going along nicely in Japan too. It's a pain in the ass Crunchyroll won't share metrics from their end or likely support a season 2 but it isn't the end of the road.

As for this 110 stuff it's all very suspicious and cryptic in my mind at least Lets not forget that YSNET has expanded since Shenmue 3, has released a new game and must have some other things going on to stay open and working.
 
Sadly, when working on a tight budget, branching pathways don’t make a lot of sense. Why waste money on dialogue/events that a lot of players will never see? I do agree though, it would be nice to have them in the next Shenmue game as it’s this kind of thing that made the world of the first Shenmue game feel so alive.

Re; your earlier point about quest markers, I agree that they’re probably not needed for the main story, but I would like to see them do something a little with side quests. In Shenmue 3, it was way too easy too miss side quests as most of them were only available for a limited time. Worse still, there was no way of knowing if a quest was available without going right up to the quest giver. I think smaller, more densely packed maps would help in this regard, perhaps with automatic events that were triggered by Ryo’s proximity to the questgiver.
I don't think branching paths have to be too complicated though or particularly time consuming/budget intensive for the team. I don't think they even have to have that many. They toned down on it a lot in the second game, if I remember correctly, but they still made it work. Edit: Also, for me it's just about improving the gameplay loop and making progress feel constant and more organic, whereas Shenmue 3 felt a bit stilted and like you were pressing X (or whatever the action button is) against different random NPCs until you spoke to the right one.

I agree about side quests. I wasn't really a fan of them or how they were implemented. I would prefer Shenmue 4 to have less of them, but have ones that help enhance the relationships between Ryo and other characters, done in a way to enhance the overall story and world. And I agree that automatic events triggering is a good way to guide the player as they get within close proximity of a quest giver.
 
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Shenmue season will happen just to much going in its favorite not to happen. Im glad we got a man on the inside campaigning for us as well. This may turn out to be our path to salvation for finishing the story.

Yeah Jason comes across really well in the interview and we're lucky to have people like him in places of power to help keep Shenmue alive. The fact that Shenmue was second choice after Panzer Dragoon Saga in the entire Sega IP says an awful lot about staying power and potential appeal of this franchise when something more easily marketable and clean slated like Streets of Rage could have been a much easier sell to the moneymen ergo making his job easier.
 
Speaking of side quests, why did no one in Shenmue 3 teach Ryo optional new moves like in the first two games? (Other than Delin's brother) It would be cool if in Shenmue 4 the rewards for completing some side quests is a character teaching you a new move like in the first two games.
 
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