Better than Shenmue 1&2: Your thoughts?

Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Niaowu feeling so empty really is my biggest issue. I can’t fathom
what caused them to have so much of
an issue filling it with life.
I believe it as to do with performance issues on the Ps4, it really takes hit, specially in Niaowu.
I also believe that UE4 is not the best when it comes to game optimization.
 
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Great post; you summed most of my feelings in regard to Shenmue 3 specially regarding the side quests the characters and npc's. As for the locations I respect your opinion but I think you are being a little bit harsh; personally in terms of environment, aesthetic and atmosphere they are very good specially Bailu. Its true that Niaowu falls short compared to Hong Kong in Shenmue 2, much because it feels more empty. I would have definitely prefered it to have much less shops and more interesting and interactable npc's.
As for the Rpg elements, I think the idea great but not very well implemented and it is not well balanced either, but it gives meaning and purpose as well as connecting every different element in the game, but if improved and better well balanced it can make the game world much more believable, interactable amd atmospheric.
If Yu Suzuki manages to improve and better balance all of these aspects and at the same time deliver a great story, I believe he can achieve the best game in the series.
Oh, I agree for sure about the beauty of Niawou, my main issue with it is mostly the same as yours. You can go to your hotel balcony and witness such beauty from it, yet there isn't a soul in sight...

One thing I haven't seen mentioned as a criticism is how bodies disappear after a fight ends. This becomes particularly evident when you get to the castle when Ryo and Ren wipe out 50+ guys only for them to instantly disappear after the fights conclude! This didn't happen in during the 70 man battle in Shenmue 1 and the yellow head bodies don't disappear immediately after the fights finish in Shenmue 2 either! Seems like a strange decision. Maybe Yu didn't want us to assume that an unconscious Ge burned to death after Niao Sun's arson attack? :ROFLMAO:
 
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Favourite title
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Strider (2014)
My order from best to worst is 1, 2 and then 3.

The gap between 1 and 2 is pretty small for me but the intimacy of the world in the first game is unlike anything I have experienced before, even to this day. It's hard to explain this but the world feels 'real'. You can feel the love put into almost every NPC, who don't just feel like they are inserted into the world for the sake of it. For example, look at how the relationship between Kurita san and the flower shop girl develops as the game progresses, or how the guy working night shifts at the tomato mart's problems slowly begin to escalate to the point that he has to work a job at the harbor. In the first game, there is so much attention to detail and you are rewarded for investing in its world and talking to people.
It doesn't just stop with the NPC's, everything in the first game has extra detail put into it. For example, the Hazuki Residence used to be an ancient temple, the shrine where you meet Megumi belongs to Inari; the Fox God of prosperity, or the Hazuki's being warriors since the Sengoku Era.

When I refer to detail in Shenmue Chapter One: Yokosuka, this is what I mean. It's not simply just object interaction, it's that Yu Suzuki went above and beyond to craft such a detailed world. Something that a lot of (though not all) open world games miss today. That extra passion is what makes Shenmue a masterpiece in my eyes.

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It's tricky, isn't it? I vacillate on the topic of level of detail and meaning between the three games. I'd think it may be helpful to distinguish the lack of those details due to constrictions on making the game, and the lack due to the lack of need for them altogether.

While I think it'd be nice if 2 and 3 had more of these details, I find it reasonable that even 2 had no passport. To @chaikilla's point, there's a majestic intimacy to 1 that probably hooked all of us, but that intimacy makes sense in the context of it being Ryo's hometown.

Would such intimacy be suited for Hong Kong/Kowloon, which is ultimately (plot-wise) a springboard for getting to Guilin? I know some guides present all of the character profiles for those in 2, and that makes complete sense to me; I do wish we had more of that. So too, perhaps it'd be nice to have some blurb about Man Mo Temple, but (forgive my cheekiness) I don't much care about someone spending time writing a profile on Bar London. Do I need a video with the camera oddly zoomed in on a pre-rendered Joy telling me about Lucky Hit? Maybe some desire this, but I don't think it necessary.
After 1, Ryo is a foreigner, wandering through odd towns; that level of detail seems unnecessary. I think the greater case could be made for these types of profiles in Guilin, say, in connection with his father's experiences. To your point, @Tsukuyomimagi99, I do admit that S3 falls flat there in this context.

In a sense, I think that aspect of "attention to detail" is almost closer to the courting in romance: you fall for the person initially, but those aspects change as you grow older together and circumstances lead to/demand different charms.
I was enamored by 1's setting, but 2 onward was likely envisioned to do present different experiences, as the series in full seems to be largely about a kid growing up (and also fulfilling his destiny) in a foreign but charming land.
 
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Shenmue
Currently playing
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It's tricky, isn't it? I vacillate on the topic of level of detail and meaning between the three games. I'd think it may be helpful to distinguish the lack of those details due to constrictions on making the game, and the lack due to the lack of need for them altogether.

While I think it'd be nice if 2 and 3 had more of these details, I find it reasonable that even 2 had no passport. To @chaikilla's point, there's a majestic intimacy to 1 that probably hooked all of us, but that intimacy makes sense in the context of it being Ryo's hometown.

Would such intimacy be suited for Hong Kong/Kowloon, which is ultimately (plot-wise) a springboard for getting to Guilin? I know some guides present all of the character profiles for those in 2, and that makes complete sense to me; I do wish we had more of that. So too, perhaps it'd be nice to have some blurb about Man Mo Temple, but (forgive my cheekiness) I don't much care about someone spending time writing a profile on Bar London. Do I need a video with the camera oddly zoomed in on a pre-rendered Joy telling me about Lucky Hit? Maybe some desire this, but I don't think it necessary.
After 1, Ryo is a foreigner, wandering through odd towns; that level of detail seems unnecessary. I think the greater case could be made for these types of profiles in Guilin, say, in connection with his father's experiences. To your point, @Tsukuyomimagi99, I do admit that S3 falls flat there in this context.

In a sense, I think that aspect of "attention to detail" is almost closer to the courting in romance: you fall for the person initially, but those aspects change as you grow older together and circumstances lead to/demand different charms.
I was enamored by 1's setting, but 2 onward was likely envisioned to do present different experiences, as the series in full seems to be largely about a kid growing up (and also fulfilling his destiny) in a foreign but charming land.
That's a fair enough point since everybody is attracted to different elements in Shenmue. Like I have said before, you don't need extra attention to detail in order to create a masterful gaming experience. As @orient articulated in one of his posts, Shenmue II made up for its lack of detail with a grander cinematic scope. Shenmue II is just as much a masterpiece in my eyes as the first game.

Though I will say that a country rich in history like China would not be implausible to the detailed approach of the first game. If anything, one could uncover all this rich detail throughout your journey. In other words, you just need the right approach. The elephant rock in Shenmue III is an example of that.
 
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That's a fair enough point since everybody is attracted to different elements in Shenmue. Like I have said before, you don't need extra attention to detail in order to create a masterful gaming experience. As @orient articulated in one of his posts, Shenmue II made up for its lack of detail with a grander cinematic scope. Shenmue II is just as much a masterpiece in my eyes as the first game.

Though I will say that a country rich in history like China would not be implausible to the detailed approach of the first game. If anything, one could uncover all this rich detail throughout your journey. In other words, you just need the right approach. The elephant rock in Shenmue III is an example of that.
I'd never thought of it in those terms, S2 being more cinematic (may @orient be rewarded in agreement with the usual :coffee:, gifted vs. a sign of snark), but that aspect of distinction in presentation makes a lot of sense.

Further, I suspect we may well agree in the sense of the details on his experiences in China. It's telling that that energy seemed to be directed more to the collectibles (it reminds me of the Uncharted series focusing on the collectible animations at the expense of meaning, but that's a separate topic or more).
While indeed humorous and playful, some of those item descriptions, imagine that effort being directed instead to focusing on other aspects of these travels and contents within. I feel you there.

Probably for another topic (forgive my philosophy/psychology background speaking here), I've always wondered about both YS's potential perfectionism (and its resulting complications for the series), as well as the aspect of his growing older (one wonders if the added humor of S3 is more him, or the staff).
We speak from our fan side, but I also wonder how he himself has changed in all of this. Would he still want all games to have passports and detailed accounts, or is he siding more on the side of getting it done while he can and being grateful for our love of the series? (A false dichotomy there, but I trust you take my point.)
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
That's a fair enough point since everybody is attracted to different elements in Shenmue. Like I have said before, you don't need extra attention to detail in order to create a masterful gaming experience. As @orient articulated in one of his posts, Shenmue II made up for its lack of detail with a grander cinematic scope. Shenmue II is just as much a masterpiece in my eyes as the first game.

Though I will say that a country rich in history like China would not be implausible to the detailed approach of the first game. If anything, one could uncover all this rich detail throughout your journey. In other words, you just need the right approach. The elephant rock in Shenmue III is an example of that.
In that regard, I completely agree with you, one example is that they could have combined the Choubu Chan hunt that was created with the intent of boosting tourism with some actual cultural information in the touristic locations in Niaowu, like per exemple the elephant rock, the various temples, the cormorant fisherman and even the martial arts theme; this would have made the exploration even more interesting and the game even more immersive.
 
Joined
Feb 29, 2020
After beating Shenmue III 3 times in a row, I went back to play Shenmue 1 and 2 recently. What am I supposed to do for a job in Shenmue 2? Beg people to play Lucky hit? Fishing is way more fun and earns more money. Arm Wrestling was tiresome on Dreamcast even with a turbo fire controller. I dont mean mentally, physically. Those matches go on forever. The qtes thrown in it are a good touch.

One reason why Virtua Fighter never caught on in the states is its too damn hard( without an arcade stick) . As much as I love VF, playing Shenmue 1 and 2 VF-style combat on that mushy Dreamcast pad makes me want to jump out of a window. Ps4 pad is not much better.

Combat needed to be simplified for pad play. Shenmue 1 and 2 were great for their time, but like Robert Frost said, "you cant go home again." I kept walking around Shenmue 2's Kowloon wishing I could find a spot to pick herbs. Shenmue III is the wave of the future , ladies and gentlemen! Ryo looks awesome on the cover of Shenmue 2, but in the game he looks like Davy and Goliath after a growth spurt. In Shenmue III, Ryo's appearance on the box and in game are a 1:1 ratio. I rest my case.
 
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Joined
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Probably for another topic (forgive my philosophy/psychology background speaking here), I've always wondered about both YS's potential perfectionism (and its resulting complications for the series), as well as the aspect of his growing older (one wonders if the added humor of S3 is more him, or the staff).
We speak from our fan side, but I also wonder how he himself has changed in all of this. Would he still want all games to have passports and detailed accounts, or is he siding more on the side of getting it done while he can and being grateful for our love of the series? (A false dichotomy there, but I trust you take my point.)

(I'll start off by apologizing to the staff for going off topic, but this is an interesting point I wanted to address.)

In all honesty, the only person who can answer that inquiry is Suzuki himself. Common wisdom would suggest that of course he's changed over the past twenty years since most humans tend to. All I can say based on Shenmue III interviews, is that Suzuki has seen a lot more movies (which he claimed influenced some aspects of the game), wanted to add some more levity, and did not get to implement everything he wanted.

So if I were to hazard a guess, I would say that the perfectionist side of him is still strong. Remember even in the original two games, Suzuki claimed that he was not able to implement everything he wanted. Though this tends to be a pretty common sentiment among developers as a whole.

The only thing I do know for certain is that his passion for developing video games has not wavered. His work ethic hasn't changed either despite being in his sixties. The fact he worked hard on Shenmue III for the fans and still wants to develop more games is a testament to that. For that reason alone, he has my respect.
 
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Joined
Jun 11, 2019
After beating Shenmue III 3 times in a row, I went back to play Shenmue 1 and 2 recently. What am I supposed to do for a job in Shenmue 2? Beg people to play Lucky hit? Fishing is way more fun and earns more money. Arm Wrestling was tiresome on Dreamcast even with a turbo fire controller. I dont mean mentally, physically. Those matches go on forever. The qtes thrown in it are a good touch.
That's great if you're playing a casual job simulator, but what are you working for in Shenmue 3? It's just working for the sake of working that leads to nothing because there's no story development.

Getting a job in Bailu doesn't even make sense.
 
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That's great if you're playing a casual job simulator, but what are you working for in Shenmue 3? It's just working for the sake of working that leads to nothing because there's no story development.

Getting a job in Bailu doesn't even make sense.
Here we go again...
 
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OP
S
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That's great if you're playing a casual job simulator, but what are you working for in Shenmue 3? It's just working for the sake of working that leads to nothing because there's no story development.

Getting a job in Bailu doesn't even make sense.
Ryo needed money to buy the Liu Jao that Sun requested so he could teach him Body Check
Working in Bailu did make sense.
 

spud1897

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Destiny 2, Shenmue HD ;)
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That's great if you're playing a casual job simulator, but what are you working for in Shenmue 3? It's just working for the sake of working that leads to nothing because there's no story development.

Getting a job in Bailu doesn't even make sense.
Not being funny but why everytime someone posts something that they enjoy do you wonder in with posts like that? Just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone else has to dance to your tune. Oh and before "censorship" starts being brandished about, I'm not saying you should change your view (you've yours and that's your right) & you can see the topics/discussion we've let run support that unequivocally.

And it's the exact same principle as meeting Ren, you work/gamble for money to meet him. It also happens again in the street fights, though that section is easier for funds. I'm not touching the story stuff here, this has been done to death elsewhere and will derail this topic.

And it does make sense for jobs to be in Bailu. It's not as rudimentary as maybe we expected (e.g jobs for barter/trade) but it makes sense to have a little chopping stand/herb collection going.
 
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Joined
Feb 29, 2020
It's hard not to love the Story of Shenmue III. It's obviously Yu Suzuki's fantasy life. He's a hero, a tough guy, he has a live in girlfriend and the chicks Dad is ok with that. All the women in the village want him, even the old ladies. Writers usually interject themselves into their stories.

If nothing else, the Merry Cruise DLC taught me to have a sense of humor when playing Shenmue III.John Cena Laughing.jpg
 
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I still feel like there's so much dislike and disappointment for this game from fans especially when compared to 1&2 but 3 still has that strong "Shenmue" feel to it and improves upon Shenmue 2's gameplay, it just lacked the huge budget behind it to be as big in scope as Shenmue 2 with all those locations, the epic Kowloon moments as such which is why 2 is still considered by many the pinnacle.
 
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spud1897

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I would say theres continued dissatisfaction from a group of fans (which is fine) though within that you've got a small group shitting on the game at every post/turn, which is wider of here too.

However it's been well received wider of here, 77% people like it on google, 4.5 star reviews (from 193 reviews) on Amazon UK.

Argos 4.3 Stars, IMDB 7.1 from 101 user reviews. Price runner.com 4.4 from 107 user reviews. Gamestop 4.3 from 98 reviews.

The Metacritic reveiw scores is 67 (including some very poorly written stuff and reviews that a few users on here had removed but not actioned) but the user score is 7.8 from 1060 reviews on PS4. PC has a reviewer score of 69 but user 6.1, though you can bet a tonne of that is the Epic review bombing.

How much stock you place into user reviews is a personal choice overall but the PS4 score seems much fairer (probably higher than I expected but fans would have hit 10s on there).

Opencritic has a score of 69 from reviews.

On Twitter I'm always seeing people posting saying that they love the game or have enjoyed it.

So to say fans, assuming the wider fanbase, is unfair given the above evidence which suggests it's been relatively well received by the ones who reviewed the game after playing it. Again take what you will from it.

That's not to gloss over the well stated flaws or ignore the people who have those issues (and Express those in a constructive manner) but it's not anywhere close to the Doom and gloom some would make out.
 
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I would say theres continued dissatisfaction from a group of fans (which is fine) though within that you've got a small group shitting on the game at every post/turn, which is wider of here too.

However it's been well received wider of here, 77% people like it on google, 4.5 star reviews (from 193 reviews) on Amazon UK.

Argos 4.3 Stars, IMDB 7.1 from 101 user reviews. Price runner.com 4.4 from 107 user reviews. Gamestop 4.3 from 98 reviews.

The Metacritic reveiw scores is 67 (including some very poorly written stuff and reviews that a few users on here had removed but not actioned) but the user score is 7.8 from 1060 reviews on PS4. PC has a reviewer score of 69 but user 6.1, though you can bet a tonne of that is the Epic review bombing.

How much stock you place into user reviews is a personal choice overall but the PS4 score seems much fairer (probably higher than I expected but fans would have hit 10s on there).

Opencritic has a score of 69 from reviews.

On Twitter I'm always seeing people posting saying that they love the game or have enjoyed it.

So to say fans, assuming the wider fanbase, is unfair given the above evidence which suggests it's been relatively well received by the ones who reviewed the game after playing it. Again take what you will from it.

That's not to gloss over the well stated flaws or ignore the people who have those issues (and Express those in a constructive manner) but it's not anywhere close to the Doom and gloom some would make out.
I never want to be a hardcore fan of any franchise.
-Being a hardcore fan will make you over criticize new entries.
-hardcore fans hate every sequel that tries to bring anything new to the franchise instead of being a reskin of a previous game.
-And finally hardcores will mostly follow others than forming their own opinion about new entries.

1.I loved playing TR 12(Shadow of TR) and yet "hardcore fans" hated it.

2.I played Thief 4 and for me it was better than Thief 2&3 and yet "hardcore fans" hate it for not being a Thief 2 reskin.

3.I enjoyed MGS Twin Snakes and I even loved it's stupid cutscenes(MGS story is that dumb that deserves those cutscenes) but fans hated it for "ruining mgs storyline."
I also loved and enjoyed Metal Gear Survive much more than MGS V.

4.I consider SH shattered memories as the second best SH game but the hardcore fans call it a fake SH game.

5.I loved and enjoyed RE 6 but hardcore fans consider it as the worst RE game even though that it was a far more enjoyable game than RE 5.(I even enjoyed it more than RE 7&2 original and 3 original.)

6.Hardcore DMC fans call DMC 5 a 10/10 game but I just consider it as a weak sequel with a really stupid storyline.(DMC 1 and DMC 3 had far better plots and didn't force you to play as 3 characters)

7.Hardcore Monkey Island fans hate Monkey Island 4 but I consider it equal to other MI games.

8.Hardcore GTA fans call GTA 3 as the worst 3D GTA game but I enjoyed it far more than VC and SA.

9.Hardcore Batman arkham fans call arkham knight as the worst game.
But outside of it's story it was really great.(Some even call it Batmobile the game which is pretty obvious that they have never played Batman Sega CD game.)

Being a hardcore fan sucks.
 
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