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As far as I’m aware he’s not trying to blame anyone for anything. Bizarre post.
Did Deep Silver Do Shenmue III Justice?
- Thread starter Tsukuyomimagi99
- Start date
As far as I’m aware he’s not trying to blame anyone for anything. Bizarre post.
Sonoshee
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He had the story, yes. It's not his job to write that story into the game, though. That's why you have script writers.
Why would he hire them before knowing another game would get made? It's pointless.
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Pretty sure I read that Yu did the vast majority of the scripting for the game’s main characters / events himself.
Sonoshee
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Shenmue's story was never the main point of Shenmue.
It was more about having virtual cities and villages in a video game. Where you can do lots of side activities in them.
Shenmue also focused on having more realistic npcs compare to other games.(Which is why every npcs have their daily schedule)
If Shenmue wanted to be a story focused game, it would have become a more RPG game(similar to yakuza) than an open world game.
It was more about having virtual cities and villages in a video game. Where you can do lots of side activities in them.
Shenmue also focused on having more realistic npcs compare to other games.(Which is why every npcs have their daily schedule)
If Shenmue wanted to be a story focused game, it would have become a more RPG game(similar to yakuza) than an open world game.
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I have to disagree with you on this one. The story was one of many elements that drew me into the world of Shenmue. Maybe you were never interested in it, but that doesn’t mean other fans weren’t.
If Shenmue 3 has shown me anything it’s that we all like Shenmue for different reasons, which is probably what lead to a game of half measures. Perhaps if Yu and the team had aimed to focus on one or two of these elements rather than trying to please everyone we might have gotten a more refined game.
I was pretty surprised when I found out, but in hindsight it makes a lot of sense. Lines like ‘look at the pair on that’ and the broom-bonking scenes seem to me like the kind of humor that an older person might assume would be appealing to a younger generation.If that is the case maybe he should be leaving it to the script writers
I’d bet money that the DLC was handed over to the younger writers as it seemed a lot more on point with modern standards (especially the fat kid storyline on the boat).
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Again, that’s your opinion.
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Hence why the whole "The Story Goes On" bit. Hence the E3 2015 reveal being all about "those side activies in a virtual town".
I mean, to each their own. If that's your thing, I respect it. But I highly doubt people waited 17 years to "visit a virtual city with npcs and do side activities".
There's a lot of better games for that.
And if you don't know, Shenmue 1 was supposed to have more story content than the way it did.(I mean Ryo was supposed to meet Shenhua in the first game based on that Saturn version)
but the Shenmue team kept on improving the first city over and over until they saw that there isn't enough space(on 3 discs) to add Hong Kong to the first Shenmue game.(And hence Hong Kong and Kowloon were transfered to Shenmue 2.)
As you can see the whole Shenmue always tried to be more about virtual cities, virtual npcs and virtual side activities than being about a revenge storyline.
but the Shenmue team kept on improving the first city over and over until they saw that there isn't enough space(on 3 discs) to add Hong Kong to the first Shenmue game.(And hence Hong Kong and Kowloon were transfered to Shenmue 2.)
As you can see the whole Shenmue always tried to be more about virtual cities, virtual npcs and virtual side activities than being about a revenge storyline.
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First you're saying that Shenmue I was supposed to have more story content, then you're saying it was supposed to have more cities so that it means Shenmue is about virtual side activities in virtual cities.
If that point held any truth, then why would they spend millions on motion capture tech for cutscenes and spend so much on soundtrack that is used only in cutscenes ?
Your point doesn't hold any weight here considering the whole thing about Shenmue being a 16 chapters story at first, then about how Yu Suzuki already wrote the whole script. I agree that there's more to Shenmue than a revenge story. Hence why the story was starting to developp far above the revenge theme and also developping a very large cast of characters.
None of that corroborate with any of the elements we know nor about how Shenmue III was unveiled.
If this is an attempt to say that "Hey ! In fact Shenmue III is just the closest thing to Yu Suzuki's vision !", it'll need a LOT more work than that.
You can say that point'n click adventure games or telltale kinda games are story focused but for Shenmue you can't really say that.
Shenmue inspired the open world genre. The genre that story always takes a backseat for the activities that you can do in the virtual world.
If Shenmue wanted to be a story focused game it would have a better storyline with better pacing than it did from the beginning.Alongside having less filler characters that don't improve the main story at all.(And it would have more cutscenes than gameplay.)
Those expensive cutscenes are just made to make fighting cutscenes more exciting.(Every expensive open world game has a cool cutscene to use in the trailers)
Shenmue originally was supposed to have more but smaller cities with much less npcs and more focus on story. Which during the development of 1 they decided to make it more about virtual city and side activities.
As for that 16 or 11 chapters, it doesn't really matter. since the chapters can easily be rewritten for every sequel.(I don't think they were even following that 11 chapter format when they were making the Saturn version of 1.)
Really makes me feel you Shenmue fans just wanted 3 to be a boring 6-7 hours movie.
Shenmue inspired the open world genre. The genre that story always takes a backseat for the activities that you can do in the virtual world.
If Shenmue wanted to be a story focused game it would have a better storyline with better pacing than it did from the beginning.Alongside having less filler characters that don't improve the main story at all.(And it would have more cutscenes than gameplay.)
Those expensive cutscenes are just made to make fighting cutscenes more exciting.(Every expensive open world game has a cool cutscene to use in the trailers)
Shenmue originally was supposed to have more but smaller cities with much less npcs and more focus on story. Which during the development of 1 they decided to make it more about virtual city and side activities.
As for that 16 or 11 chapters, it doesn't really matter. since the chapters can easily be rewritten for every sequel.(I don't think they were even following that 11 chapter format when they were making the Saturn version of 1.)
Really makes me feel you Shenmue fans just wanted 3 to be a boring 6-7 hours movie.
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Yeah, as I said, you're going to need more solid arguments. The genre that story always takes a backseat ? You mean like those GTA games ? Or recently, Red Dead Redemption 2 ?
There's a shitload a cinematic open world titles, I do'nt even know which point you're trying to make.
And now you're telling me the cutscenes were expensive to make... the story cutscenes more exciting ?
I think you need to play more games.
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Also you missed the point about those 11-16 chapters thing. It's not about them being rewritten or not.
It's just really strange that, according to you, Shenmue is so much about "virtual cities and side activities" and not about the story that YS wrote a 11 to 16 chapters story since years and supposedly needs to span it over 5 to 6 games. For something not story driven, that sounds rather weird.
As for the last part "boring 6-7 hours movie" might have been better story wise than what we got in the end. It's not always about being fun. It's about being captivating.
I know the argument "a game is meant to be fun". But Shenmue III isn't a fun game. The gameplay isn't good. It's not good at all. Even for the side activities, YS says it himself: You have better games on mobile.
But is it a problem ? No. Because a game is an overall experience. What matters though is that this experience ends up being memorable.
But let's not pretend that what we had was the best thing we could ever hope or that Shenmue III is, in fact, the closest to the spirit of Shenmue, more than II, because supposedly it was never about a story or action but virtual cities or side activities. Because even if you want to argue on that point... Shenmue III is bad on that aspect. As virtual cities, no one will remember Bailu or Niaowu, because of technical issues, because of budget issues, because of design issues we discussed over and over on dojo.
It's just really strange that, according to you, Shenmue is so much about "virtual cities and side activities" and not about the story that YS wrote a 11 to 16 chapters story since years and supposedly needs to span it over 5 to 6 games. For something not story driven, that sounds rather weird.
As for the last part "boring 6-7 hours movie" might have been better story wise than what we got in the end. It's not always about being fun. It's about being captivating.
I know the argument "a game is meant to be fun". But Shenmue III isn't a fun game. The gameplay isn't good. It's not good at all. Even for the side activities, YS says it himself: You have better games on mobile.
But is it a problem ? No. Because a game is an overall experience. What matters though is that this experience ends up being memorable.
But let's not pretend that what we had was the best thing we could ever hope or that Shenmue III is, in fact, the closest to the spirit of Shenmue, more than II, because supposedly it was never about a story or action but virtual cities or side activities. Because even if you want to argue on that point... Shenmue III is bad on that aspect. As virtual cities, no one will remember Bailu or Niaowu, because of technical issues, because of budget issues, because of design issues we discussed over and over on dojo.
Sonoshee
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That's subjective. I found the game mostly fun. It was only that there wasn't as much story as I'd hoped, that's all.
Where did he say this?
spud1897
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TBF I do remember an interview where Yu said he thought there was a couple of fishing mobile games better than the one in Shenmue III. I'll try to find it later.
Either way that's been blown out of context, Yu talked about one mini game not all of them.
Either way that's been blown out of context, Yu talked about one mini game not all of them.
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Point being, I would say the main attraction from those games isn't to cut wood, drive a forklift or fish. Those are side content that is nice to have. As a matter of fact, I love fishing in games.
But I dont think I'm taking a big risk here when I say "Shenmue III isnt a game you play for cutting wood or fishing". You can like doing it as a side activity, but then again, I dont think I'm being hyperbolic here if I say most people, even on Dojo, start the game, thinking "Hey, I'm in the urge to cut wood !".
Those are nice activities to have as side content, but they're clearly not developped or amazing, would I even say good. Those are fine little time wasters, and that's good, because that's what is expected out of them.
And then again, Shenmue III isn't a game that is going to be commended for its side activities gameplay nor its fighting system gameplay.
To say that Shenmue was never about its story but about those side elements, even moreso in 3 in which they are average in today's standard sounds out of proportions.
But I dont think I'm taking a big risk here when I say "Shenmue III isnt a game you play for cutting wood or fishing". You can like doing it as a side activity, but then again, I dont think I'm being hyperbolic here if I say most people, even on Dojo, start the game, thinking "Hey, I'm in the urge to cut wood !".
Those are nice activities to have as side content, but they're clearly not developped or amazing, would I even say good. Those are fine little time wasters, and that's good, because that's what is expected out of them.
And then again, Shenmue III isn't a game that is going to be commended for its side activities gameplay nor its fighting system gameplay.
To say that Shenmue was never about its story but about those side elements, even moreso in 3 in which they are average in today's standard sounds out of proportions.
spud1897
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I'm sure @Dg1995 will correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand they're saying for them Shenmue is about the world that houses the story.
I think for the most of us @GhostTrick I would agree we play for the story and the sense of being able to lose yourself in Shenmue. Story, OK that's been discussed at length enough but for me I can easily lose myself in III. That's chopping wood, fishing, training and just enjoying Bailu village which I found more complete in my own experience. When I started initially I wasn't thinking give me mini-games I was thinking lets get this story moving and then got distracted by mini-games so much so I would spend hours playing them. Maybe I'm easily distracted.
My point being is that Shenmue is an experience varying on each individuals level, some may not understand that persons experience but that experience is unique to them. The fact we can share in these is something that this community should treasure, especially now.
While this isn't on topic but this was discussed on Corey's Zoom meet last night, was that for the budget they were never going to be able to make a Shenmue game on par with the first 2. There's too much in those games to do so. But, if the theory is true that some funding from III has gone into IV, the basis is there to make a complete Shenmue game from there. Shenmue III is a proof of concept around building an open world for bugger all. Shenmue IV can bring things together.
I think for the most of us @GhostTrick I would agree we play for the story and the sense of being able to lose yourself in Shenmue. Story, OK that's been discussed at length enough but for me I can easily lose myself in III. That's chopping wood, fishing, training and just enjoying Bailu village which I found more complete in my own experience. When I started initially I wasn't thinking give me mini-games I was thinking lets get this story moving and then got distracted by mini-games so much so I would spend hours playing them. Maybe I'm easily distracted.
My point being is that Shenmue is an experience varying on each individuals level, some may not understand that persons experience but that experience is unique to them. The fact we can share in these is something that this community should treasure, especially now.
While this isn't on topic but this was discussed on Corey's Zoom meet last night, was that for the budget they were never going to be able to make a Shenmue game on par with the first 2. There's too much in those games to do so. But, if the theory is true that some funding from III has gone into IV, the basis is there to make a complete Shenmue game from there. Shenmue III is a proof of concept around building an open world for bugger all. Shenmue IV can bring things together.
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If you think that Sega put up $70+M for their flagship Dreamcast title on the basis that it was about touring virtual cities then you're crazy. Shenmue was always supposed to have mass appeal; it was not conceived as a niche title.
There's some truth to this but Suzuki could easily have continued Shenmue in the form of a spiritual sequel in that case (a la Yooka Laylee, Bloodstained, or Mighty No. 9) so obviously the only reason for continuing it in the form of Shenmue 3 in particular was to continue that story with those characters.
Oh ya those cutscenes of Master Chen and Yuanda Zhu explaining what the mirrors do and Ryo and Shenhua talking about a tree and then stone carvings are totally just trailer fodder.
First of all, (imo) S3 ended up being a boring 25 hour game so six of one, half a dozen of another; second of all, games can tell good stories without turning into movies. Shenmue 1 and 2 did.
This is true of most games but what Shenmue was originally meant to be was essentially what AAA games are today; ultra expensive, bleeding edge tech, mass market appeal, and ultra profitable. People tend to misconstrue that just because Shenmue wasn't ultimately successful with a wide audience, it was never trying to be, which is not true. In 1999 no one had ever spent that much money on a game, there was no AAA formula, shooters were still a novelty on consoles, third person action games were rare etc. Sega had every reason to think that Shenmue would be the next big thing as, say, Microsoft did for Halo.
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