Did Shenmue 3 hurt the series?

[iknifaugood]

Yes. Especially compared to both how universally beloved S2 is with the fanbase and the massive success of the Kickstarter. IMO S3 leans into several of the series' worst indulgences and gives the 'haters' more than enough to point and laugh at with design decisions that are truly baffling to me given the series' reputation. When I think about the E3 2015 reactions with people openly weeping at the thought of getting to play it, I just can't square that with what we actually got to play.

Even though it's the reason we're getting a Shenmue Anime and even talking about a future for the series, I'm firmly of the mind that S3 was the best chance to change people's minds on the series and it blew it.

That being said, if we get S4 and it's amazing (and/or the anime is amazing), then I change my answer to no.

 

[LemonHaze]

I think you can't really answer this question right now, since it hinges on the rest of the story being created. And as previously stated, Shenmue III is only the 3rd part of the story. So I'd say that using standard logic and reasoning, it's near impossible to truly answer this question.

 

[24Nathan]

I was telling my brother about this who I have recently forced to play through the series. He likes Yakuza better for example, and while he states that I was well made, it just wasn't that much fun to play for him. Ii he is liking much better. But I was saying that the series will be judged very differently upon it's completion, due to its wide scope and overarching story. If Yu could wave a magic wand and have the entire series on Dreamcast with no delays and cuts in budget, I have no doubt that the entire series, even III completely as is, would be looked at favorably, because we can almost think of the whole series as one game (hopefully one day, at least).

 

[iknifaugood]

I think you can't really answer this question right now, since it hinges on the rest of the story being created. And as previously stated, Shenmue III is only the 3rd part of the story. So I'd say that using standard logic and reasoning, it's near impossible to truly answer this question.

Why not? When I beat S1 I thought it was a pretty good game with lots of potential so I was curious to play S2. When I beat S2 I thought it was a masterpiece and couldn't wait to see where everything was heading. When I beat S3 I was really worried about the future of the story and what state S4 would arrive in, if it arrived at all. I think the fact that so many people are relying on S4 to truly judge the series is itself a fair indictment of S3's affect on the series.

 

[LemonHaze]

Why not? When I beat S1 I thought it was a pretty good game with lots of potential so I was curious to play S2. When I beat S2 I thought it was a masterpiece and couldn't wait to see where everything was heading. When I beat S3 I was really worried about the future of the story and what state S4 would arrive in, if it arrived at all. I think the fact that so many people are relying on S4 to truly judge the series is itself a fair indictment of S3's affect on the series.

Because the story contained within Shenmue III is very dependent on both the before and after and since we don't have the after to do much investigating over, we're kinda stuck in a weird in-between with not really much to go off of, other than the content of Shenmue III itself.

I'm not saying one can't judge Shenmue III at all, mind you. I'm saying that to be able to properly judge Shenmue III within the series as a whole, we need some more information, specifically right after Shenmue III's ending.

For example, all of the stuff that happened with The Great Wall.. what can we actually take from that? Other than we know the place looks like/is The Great Wall, that's pretty much where we're left at the ending so obviously the only way to truly judge or criticise this, we'd need to know what happens at this location.

Your points regarding the first two games are perfectly valid, though. Because both of these games were released relatively at the same time as eachother and there was no real doubt that the series wouldn't continue, at that time. At the end of Shenmue II, I was very, very confused. Suddenly there's these mirrors in a cave and some magic/mystery takes place.. I kinda felt like I do know with Shenmue III's ending, but with Shenmue II. And lo-and-behold, when S3 came around, we seen that some of these elements were mostly brushed off, indicating that their impact in S2's ending was only a way of conveying that part of the story. In other words, the absence of an explanation of these elements is what helps us understand the importance (or lack of importance).

 

[~ ひかり ~]

I was telling my brother about this who I have recently forced to play through the series. He likes Yakuza better for example, and while he states that I was well made, it just wasn't that much fun to play for him. Ii he is liking much better. But I was saying that the series will be judged very differently upon it's completion, due to its wide scope and overarching story. If Yu could wave a magic wand and have the entire series on Dreamcast with no delays and cuts in budget, I have no doubt that the entire series, even III completely as is, would be looked at favorably, because we can almost think of the whole series as one game (hopefully one day, at least).

I remember when i saw someone saying this... "If Shenmue was a one big game than the first game is the introduction, the second is the beginning of the adventure, and the third is the training phase." I agree with this, Shenmue III is the training phase. GON - Everyday, without neglect, to keep training.

The training phase where Ryo trains everyday, he learns with Master Sun and Grandmaster Bei, he trains and fights with other people to level up kung fu and much more, Shenmue III is a more peaceful time in Ryo's journey, specially in Bailu Village, and i like that. I think people expected Shenmue III to be like Shenmue II with a lot of action, revelations and much more, we didn't get that.

In my opinion Shenmue III was never meant to be like Shenmue II, if Shenmue III was released on Dreamcast in 2003 i think it would have a slow pace too. For me Shenmue III looks like the first game in relation to the slow pace and things like that, and I think Shenmue IV will look like Shenmue II, with a lot of action, fights and revelations, i think Shenmue IV will be intense.

Shenmue III hurt the series? about this my opinion is the same as Sergeynest opinion and Rydeen opinion.

 

[Guangyan Wang]

I think an Xbox One version would really help the game and the series overall. Especially if it is on Game Pass on day one. It would open the game up to a whole new audience and being on game pass would draw in a lot of people who may have been on the fence about it. It really hurts Shenmue 3 that it is only on PS4; it needs as much exposure as possible to help gather momentum for a Shenmue 4.

 

[LemonHaze]

In my opinion Shenmue III was never meant to be like Shenmue II, if Shenmue III was released on Dreamcast in 2003 i think it would have a slow pace too. For me Shenmue III looks like the first game in relation to the slow pace and things like that, and I think Shenmue IV will look like Shenmue II, with a lot of action, fights and revelations, i think Shenmue IV will be intense.

I think this too. It seems like the ending of Shenmue II was like a transition into this new gameplay which I guess is what we got from Shenmue III. Everything that happens in Shenmue II is done in a kind of "Shenmue I" style, just improved.. until you get to the ending where things seem to change a little, talking with Shenhua for example etc etc.

 

[darksniper]

I was telling my brother about this who I have recently forced to play through the series. He likes Yakuza better for example, and while he states that I was well made, it just wasn't that much fun to play for him. Ii he is liking much better. But I was saying that the series will be judged very differently upon it's completion, due to its wide scope and overarching story. If Yu could wave a magic wand and have the entire series on Dreamcast with no delays and cuts in budget, I have no doubt that the entire series, even III completely as is, would be looked at favorably, because we can almost think of the whole series as one game (hopefully one day, at least).

When you have a series that spans multiple titles, certain games have their lull points. I love the Yakuza series almost as much as I do Shenmue. However I was ready to throw in the towel after Yakuza 5 because I felt the series got to be long in the tooth and quite boring after a while. Thankfully 6 was a much better experience and I realized that 5 was just the outlier in a series of consistent, very good games.

I think Shenmue III falls in the same boat. If the series ever does reach it's completion, I don't think III won't get looked at as unfavorable if you play them all from beginning to end.

One thing to mention though is that we're lucky that Shenmue II didn't end after the Dou Niu fight on disc 3. Imagine if Shenmue III began where disc 4 started and we got all the way to where Shenmue III actually did end at in one game. I think the outrage and disappointment would be worse than it already is for those who had problems with Shenmue 3's story progression.

 

[iknifaugood]

For example, all of the stuff that happened with The Great Wall.. what can we actually take from that? Other than we know the place looks like/is The Great Wall, that's pretty much where we're left at the ending so obviously the only way to truly judge or criticise this, we'd need to know what happens at this location.

This is a good point as it's not really clear where the story will pick up in S4, unlike at the end of S2 where we knew exactly where S3 would need to start.

At the end of Shenmue II, I was very, very confused. Suddenly there's these mirrors in a cave and some magic/mystery takes place.. I kinda felt like I do know with Shenmue III's ending, but with Shenmue II. And lo-and-behold, when S3 came around, we seen that some of these elements were mostly brushed off, indicating that their impact in S2's ending was only a way of conveying that part of the story. In other words, the absence of an explanation of these elements is what helps us understand the importance (or lack of importance).

At the end of S2 I was very, very aroused; mostly my curiosity. So when S3 minimized the stuff that really grabbed me at the end of S2 I was thoroughly disappointed. As if S2 was like "OK now things are getting interesting" and S3 was like "no they aren't".

One thing to mention though is that we're lucky that Shenmue II didn't end after the Dou Niu fight on disc 3. Imagine if Shenmue III began where disc 4 started and we got all the way to where Shenmue III actually did end at in one game. I think the outrage and disappointment would be worse than it already is for those who had problems with Shenmue 3's story progression.

If S2 ended at disc 3 I think that there would have been far fewer people clamoring to know more about where the story was going and we may not have even gotten S3.

 

[The Hero Spot]

It definitely did hurt the series.

 

[Jibby]

Regardless of any of our personal views on Shenmue III, I think it was essential in breathing life back into the franchise.

If not for Shenmue III, I feel like the entire franchise would still be this dormant IP that SEGA barely acknowledges. But now SEGA is constantly referencing it in tweets, there's re-releases of the first two games, official merch, and even an upcoming anime based on it. I'm almost certain none of this would have happened if Shenmue III didn't exist.

So say what you want about the game itself; it definitely has it's weak points I can totally agree there. But in my opinion, it singlehandedly revived the Shenmue franchise. I think we'd be in the exact same place as we were 10 years ago if not for this game.

 

[Sergeynest]

I think an Xbox One version would really help the game and the series overall. Especially if it is on Game Pass on day one. It would open the game up to a whole new audience and being on game pass would draw in a lot of people who may have been on the fence about it. It really hurts Shenmue 3 that it is only on PS4; it needs as much exposure as possible to help gather momentum for a Shenmue 4.

I agree that Shenmue 3 should be on other platforms, like Xbox and I would also love to see the Shenmue series on Nintendo Switch but would the sales on those other platforms be enough to justify investing the money to make the ports for those platforms !? Maybe.
On the other hand being a Sony exclusive can also have its advantages.
Nowdays exclusives is what makes players buy a consoles; that's why Sony as won the console wars in this generation with the Ps4 and that's also why Microsoft started acquiring independent studios in order for them to create exclusives for the Xbox consoles.
Securing the Shenmue series adds another exclusive to Sony's list and a loyal fan base that will most likely buy its next gen console and many other titles as well.
If possible the Shenmue series should be a joint colaboration between Sony/Sega, Deep Silver/Epic.
If each one of those companies gave 5M for Shenmue 4's development we would end up with a 20M budget and each one of them would minimize the risk of their investment; this of course would mean that Shenmue 4 would continue as an Epic and Sony exclusive.

 

[iknifaugood]

If not for Shenmue III, I feel like the entire franchise would still be this dormant IP that SEGA barely acknowledges. But now SEGA is constantly referencing it in tweets, there's re-releases of the first two games, official merch, and even an upcoming anime based on it. I'm almost certain none of this would have happened if Shenmue III didn't exist.

So say what you want about the game itself; it definitely has it's weak points I can totally agree there. But in my opinion, it singlehandedly revived the Shenmue franchise. I think we'd be in the exact same place as we were 10 years ago if not for this game.

I would say this is more true of the announcement of Shenmue 3 than the game itself. Most of that stuff came on the back of the tremendous hype and outpouring of love after that fateful E3 rather than after the game launched.

 

[Jibby]

I would say this is more true of the announcement of Shenmue 3 than the game itself. Most of that stuff came on the back of the tremendous hype and outpouring of love after that fateful E3 rather than after the game launched.

Even if the game received a lukewarm reception from some though, I'd still say we're in the black and that the series is in a better place than it was before III released.

 

[darksniper]

Even if the game received a lukewarm reception from some though, I'd still say we're in the black and that the series is in a better place than it was before III released.

The fact that Shenmue climbed it's way out of the red and into the black is a major accomplishment in itself given all that it's been through.

 

[Sergeynest]

I think this too. It seems like the ending of Shenmue II was like a transition into this new gameplay which I guess is what we got from Shenmue III. Everything that happens in Shenmue II is done in a kind of "Shenmue I" style, just improved.. until you get to the ending where things seem to change a little, talking with Shenhua for example etc etc.

What I think many fans don't realise is that some of the gameplay mechanics that are present in Shenmue 3 like the herb gathering and the fishing are mentioned by Shenhua when she was traveling with Ryo to Bailu village in Shenmue 2.
So it is very likely that these gameplay mechanics were always going to be implemented even if Shenmue had come out in 2003/4.

 

[Reprise]

To a certain extent, I think it did, although some of that is down to optics. For years, even outside of the core fandom within mainstream discourse, Shenmue 3 has been mythologised and made to be a big deal. So you have this grassroots campaign made up of fans who have been actively pushing for the continuation of the series, which has always bled out into mainstream media. This has built up 15 years of hype that ultimately could never be met. Video games have moved on, expectations moved on and the general style of games that are popular now, and how they function, is all radically different. The second you take a myth like Shenmue 3 and turn it into a reality you run the risk of it not meeting expectations.

On top of that, the media and gamers love to hear about Kickstarter failures. People seem to hate Kickstarter these days and actively enjoy seeing high profile projects fail. So all the controversies did taint the project... And then there's the nature of Kickstarters too. Since they had to announce the project before development even started, they had this huge amount of hype in the beginning that got diluted over the years, especially after the multiple delays. There's also the fact they felt obligated to show off unfinished work for backers and this caused a negative impression of the game.

In terms of its actual gameplay and story, there were moments where I was genuinely really impressed and really enjoyed what they had done, but there were moments that was just completely baffling. And then the pacing all falls apart and we know the final area had tp be scrapped leading to a rushed finale.

Shenmue 3 isn't a bad game and I'm glad it exists as it does, but in some ways it feels like it could lead to a much better Shenmue 4. I can't wait for the anime either. If both the anime proves to be good and we do get a much better game in Shenmue 4, then the answer would be no.

 

[Revan]

At the end of S2 I was very, very aroused

Caves get me going too

 

[bcdcdude]

People shit on anything that's long awaited and Shenmue is no different.

I did a post a while back highlighting some quotes from Metacritic proving that the game was well received in many ways.

Shenmue III could've been the greatest game in the world, solved world hunger and world peace and still that wouldn't be enough for some people.

Could some things have been better? Sure, but given the fact that the game was built from scratch, was crowdfunded and had a publisher that made some truly bizarre decisions (review embargo until after the game was released, using old assets for game previews), it's a miracle the bloody game exists let alone be pretty good for what it is.