There's indeed a big clash between Shenmue I-II and III on that matter, it's that III make sure to kill many supernatural elements and mysticism.
In Shenmue I-II, the mirors always held a big secret, a mystical secret. Talks about an ancient treasure. Talks about the Chi You. Bailu village also felt like a mystic village, in a mystic forest. I wont even talk about floating swords and such.
In Shenmue 3 though ? All of that is retconned. Yes, Retconned. I say it 100% sure. It's a complete rewriting. Bailu became a regular village. The floating sword a regular dagger. The mirors are a map for a not so old treasure.
You want to know how far the rewriting has been going on ?
Take the Shenmue II game over:
Lan Di kills Ryo and then comes to Shenhua and say "I shall take your power, for the Chiyoumen".
In III the same thing happens except Lan Di says... Nothing.
Everything mystical about Shenhua or Bailu is retconned.
And please, spare me that badly written scene which is obviously a joke where Shenhua use "her powers" against the thug when it's obviously a play on the trope of the "cute anime girl scarring the thugs".
Same for the "she can talk with animals" where Ryo has a surprised/nearly mocking reaction. Nothing is shown in a serious and mystical manner to take that seriously. In Shenmue II, when Shenhua was hinting at such things, it was said in a serious tone, with a lot of mysticism. In Shenmue III, it is said in a naive, nearly comical tone.
In the original design though
In the end, it was made into a sword and that's what matters. Yet it became a dagger... Without any powers.
It's not baseless, I explained how and why.
Let's be honest here, Shenmue III is doing its best to minimise any magical/mystical elements from the serie.
The only one that is open to debate is that Shenhua and thug scene... And even that is up to debate.
I have to agree, and sadly it's a big reason I'm less excited for Shenmue sequels than ever before. I'm disappointed they downplayed the supernatural elements that were brilliantly and slowly introduced. I really don't find the prospect of a 'hidden treasure' as interesting as supernatural implications from the previous games.
It's a shame that Bailu and the sword were forgotten about to such a large degree, especially as you said we probably won't be revisiting.
I can't believe I didn't even think much about the sword early on when playing 3, for some reason I think I was just excited about playing the sequel and more interested in meeting the characters than remembering the sword and 'magic' that immediately preceded it. The fact the scene was 'remade' didn't bother me as much until the rest of the game went in the same direction.
I agree, except for the last part as I don't think anyone expected it to be a 100m budget at all- the whole KS funding method made the budget very transparent, and I think expectations were largely lowered as a result.
In terms of the quality, size and detail of the world it actually exceeded my expectations, I'm just very disappointed in the quality of the story telling and to slightly duplicate another topic on here I don't think the budget is inherently the cause of that. Of course things got cut etc. as they ran out of money (and time I imagine) but it would seem to me that the primary focus of the budget was to build this great world, rather than tell the story within it....
I'm talking about the normies not just the diehard Shenmue fans. The people shitting on the game wondering why 12 million budget game doesnt look like a 100 million one.
Just finished the game and overall, I really liked it. Yes it's not perfect, but did I enjoy my 40 hours with Shenmue III? You bet your sweet ass I did.
But what I loved most was the fight choreography in the cutscenes. The grandmaster sparring on the boat during the sunset looked amazing, and the Lan Di / Henchman fights were by far the best looking parts of the game IMO. Ryo has never looked so slick as he did when he was fighting the first henchman, the changing footwork, the near misses, I missed the QTE twice as I was enjoying the choreography so much.
Wood chopping, forklifting, the arcade machines, the punch/horse/rooster stances...all great fun.
I really liked how you could spar or fight at any time. To me that improved the pacing tenfold. Knowing I could spend entire days levelling up my stats, learning new moves, all outside of the main story, was a big hook for me.
I thought i would hate the herb stuff but I really enjoyed that too and that was my main source of income.
The hairs on my arms stood up when I approached the last set of stairs in the castle knowing I would encounter Lan Di. You just can't manufacture emotions like that. Yes I wish the encounter was longer and the two exchanged more words but the setting / location and lighting were just as I imagined it to be in my head all those years ago.
I could write so much more but the game was more about the journey than the ending and I'm glad I took my time and revelled in it. Rock solid 8/10 for me and eager to go round again doing as much stuff as possible.
I didn't like how most of the coolest fighting was during a cutscene you just watched or pressed one or two QTEs. You are able to do a ton of training and leveling up and buying new move scrolls yet the game makes you lose at two points in the game.
Okay I have finally finished the game. I took my sweet time over the last 3 months really taking it in and completing everything I could. Parts of it I absolutely loved, and others I did not.
Things I loved:
-Game looked beautiful
-Atmosphere in Bailu village
-Conversation felt like Shenmue
-Getting to know Shenhua through conversation, and even playing the face off game
-Story was great (could have been told better)
-The mini-games and ways to earn money
-Character design and music
-Location selections and size
Things I didn’t like:
-Horrible opening scene
-Unnecessary changes to Shenhua’s house
-Music was the same just based on location. In Shenmue I the music changed based on the point in the story. It really added to the atmosphere.
-FIGHTING. The fighting system in this game was atrocious. I am a die-hard fan and defend the series with my life, but this was some of the worst I’ve ever played. No throw moves and enemies just floated to the ground when they were knocked down. The lack of ability to run around mid-fight and a dodge button took away from immersion too
-Lack of randomly occurring events. In the first two games some side events would randomly trigger based on your location and progress through the story
-Fan service. Chai wasn’t really necessary in this game. Seeing his room with the weird Chai family photo, outfit and pictures of Lan Di near the end was pretty lame. Also seeing Chai statues in the arcades seemed like such a reach
-Fight with Lan Di should have been longer and included a lot of QTE’s to make it feel more epic
Regardless of the negatives, I am so happy it exists. I understand that most of my gripes can be explained due to the low budget, so let’s hope they at least fix the fighting in Shenmue IV
Okay I have finally finished the game. I took my sweet time over the last 3 months really taking it in and completing everything I could. Parts of it I absolutely loved, and others I did not.
Things I loved:
-Game looked beautiful
-Atmosphere in Bailu village
-Conversation felt like Shenmue
-Getting to know Shenhua through conversation, and even playing the face off game
-Story was great (could have been told better)
-The mini-games and ways to earn money
-Character design and music
-Location selections and size
Things I didn’t like:
-Horrible opening scene
-Unnecessary changes to Shenhua’s house
-Music was the same just based on location. In Shenmue I the music changed based on the point in the story. It really added to the atmosphere.
-FIGHTING. The fighting system in this game was atrocious. I am a die-hard fan and defend the series with my life, but this was some of the worst I’ve ever played. No throw moves and enemies just floated to the ground when they were knocked down. The lack of ability to run around mid-fight and a dodge button took away from immersion too
-Lack of randomly occurring events. In the first two games some side events would randomly trigger based on your location and progress through the story
-Fan service. Chai wasn’t really necessary in this game. Seeing his room with the weird Chai family photo, outfit and pictures of Lan Di near the end was pretty lame. Also seeing Chai statues in the arcades seemed like such a reach
-Fight with Lan Di should have been longer and included a lot of QTE’s to make it feel more epic
Regardless of the negatives, I am so happy it exists. I understand that most of my gripes can be explained due to the low budget, so let’s hope they at least fix the fighting in Shenmue IV
I mirror your thoughts pretty closely. I'm glad it exists and that I backed it, but there were some huge flaws that really hampered my enjoyment (I also think the combat was atrocious and some choices in locations/design were really immersion-killing. Chai statues being one of them).
Overall though I am happy we got something to continue, and I hope that a sequel will significantly improve things (and maybe go back to the story in a more focused way/more in line with the original. Please less treasure hunting and more supernatural).
I mirror your thoughts pretty closely. I'm glad it exists and that I backed it, but there were some huge flaws that really hampered my enjoyment (I also think the combat was atrocious and some choices in locations/design were really immersion-killing. Chai statues being one of them).
Overall though I am happy we got something to continue, and I hope that a sequel will significantly improve things (and maybe go back to the story in a more focused way/more in line with the original. Please less treasure hunting and more supernatural).
I hope Shenmue IV continues to follow the premonitions set in the originals. It seemed like we were heading to something really amazing. The good thing with 3 being left so open at the end, means they have some time to reflect and decide what they want to do. I like the idea of Ryo continuing his journey deeper into China and learning more about the Chiyoumen. Thinking about it now, this game felt like it didn’t really advance the story. This is the way I see it; If Shenmue 1 was the first chapter, the boat was the 2nd chapter, Hong Kong was 3-6, then Shenmue 3 was chapter 7.. Maybe chapter 8 too.
One thing I have been thinking about, was Yuan interrogated by Lan Di? Why was it just Lan Di and Niao Sun there at the castle? Was that a temporary base of operations?
One thing I have been thinking about, was Yuan interrogated by Lan Di? Why was it just Lan Di and Niao Sun there at the castle? Was that a temporary base of operations?
That last part is so rushed and poorly delivered that it's very unclear as to what's going on, it's certainly not clear why Lan Di is there.
From some of the dialogue it would be fair to assume it's Niao Sun's permanent CYM base though- she controls the region and makes reference to it. Other people in the city talk about it being a 'no-go zone' across the river. (Not in those exact words but in an ominous way)
Just finished it. I was a long time member on the old SD, and because I love the game so much did not login for months, maybe even a year to even risk a spoiler. It's a new forum now so had to resign up.
The game is beautiful. It felt like Shenmue, which is the hardest part. There are nitpickers, but just remember where we as fans were and how lucky we are to even have this game. Treasure it. In 10 years time you will look back fondly on this game.
Just finished it. I was a long time member on the old SD, and because I love the game so much did not login for months, maybe even a year to even risk a spoiler. It's a new forum now so had to resign up.
The game is beautiful. It felt like Shenmue, which is the hardest part. There are nitpickers, but just remember where we as fans were and how lucky we are to even have this game. Treasure it. In 10 years time you will look back fondly on this game.
Hmm, I think there are some pretty glaring flaws that can't be dismissed as 'nitpicking', but otherwise I agree, I can barely believe we got Shenmue III after all this time!
My first comment. I used to write on this forum back about 18 years ago. I backed Shenmue 3 and felt it was a worthy sequal, and am happy the story didn't end. I really liked Shenmue 3, I just finished it after playing it slowly for 3 months. Im a bit sad it ended, as ps4 says only 17% complete, but that's because I didn't do much side mission stuff. I thought it was great when Ren threw that fake mirror out the window... I thought the game started slow, and go better when it arrived in Niaowu, from there it felt like shenmue 2 again.... except for the lack of people shopping... so many stalls and no buyers! I liked the nostalgia feeling of doing the international phone calls. Very happy to have backed the game. I felt like Shenmue 3 was coded back in 2002, it played so similar to the originals, I think they mainly just recoded for the unreal 4 engine and added things like eating. I think if Shenmue 3 came out 15 years ago, the game length would have been twice as long. It feels like we are up to chapter 7 or 8 of the 16 Yu Suzuki originally wanted. I think Suzuki doesnt want the story ended in a quick fashion, he wants his original idea to be made, so he took the brave decision of not ending the story at the end of shenmue 3. Just hope it doesnt take another 18 years for number 4!
First of all I am not a long time Shenmue fan. I played 1 & 2 on PS4 about a year ago and just recently finished 3. I’m a big Yakuza fan and I’d heard from many people how the Shenmue gameplay is a precursor to Yakuza, so I gave Shenmue a go. They are definitely very different games but I do love both series. I really enjoyed Shenmue 3 despite the obvious budget related flaws. I’m ok with the story going slow as long as we get the next game. I know it’s not likely, but I would love to see a Yu Suzuki l/Sega partnership to continue this series. With Sega’s help the fighting system and localization would be greatly improved.
For my first post here, I thought I'd repost some thoughts and observations that I initially made on another forum. It's in two parts, one at the end of Bailu and one at the end of Niaowu (and thus the game).
Bailu said:
I just finished the Bailu Village section and made it to Niaowu, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. It's Shenmue through and through, with only the smallest changes and concessions to "modern" game design; some will find that impossibly archaic and "dated", but I think it only furthers how one-of-a-kind and special this series is. I'm actually quite impressed how perfectly they've captured the feel and quirks of the originals, all these years later.
It has a lot in common with Shenmue I, specifically. Bailu Village has the same kind of coziness and verisimilitude that made Yokosuka so memorable. There are (in-game) maps and signs to consult; each villager has their own name, model, voice, personality and schedule; even the excessive (and obsessive) detail is here in full force, as every drawer and cupboard can be opened, and even though they're almost never important, they almost always have unique contents. Internalizing the village layout comes easy and gives it a sense of place, while interacting with or observing the inhabitants and learning their outlooks, relationships and routines gives them a lot of character; just spending time here, learning the ins-and-outs and getting familiar with the village is quietly rewarding and just nice.
I haven't done much in Niaowu yet, so I'm not sure what it's like there. I suspect the citizenry is less distinctive and interesting here just due to the setting, but I've already seen one way it (likely) attempts to offset this: Ryo can use a phone to call characters from the previous games, such as Nozomi, Joy, Guizhang and Tom, the hot dog vendor. It's really nice to interact with these characters again, even if it is over the phone. (Incidentally: during a call, the game plays a little montage of their scenes, in the original Dreamcast graphics, in the corner. It's a cute touch.)
Ironically, it's when Shenmue III updates its design that it stumbles. For starters, there's RPG elements now: Ryo has a "kung-fu level" can be increased by training individual attack and endurance stats. This is curious, but mostly inoffensive; there's always plenty of time to kill, so it's easy to find time to grind these up. More bizarre is the new stamina/hunger system that's tied to Ryo's health (!!), meaning HP is constantly ticking down; and while it will never kill the player, it leaves one vulnerable when getting into fights, and— worse— limits sprinting around the areas, so a player is going to constantly scarf down food to keep it steady. Money is plentiful and raising the endurance stat slows the reduction, so it ceases to be much of an issue after a few hours, but it's still a weird, weird thing to introduce.
More interesting is the new combat system. The original games had a system reminiscent of fighting games, that offered depth in the way of combos but could just as easily be button bashed through. Here, though, battles are done with an over-the-shoulder perspective, where actions are slower, combos are present but less important, quick dodge is out and replaced with a block. Rather than a fighting game, it has the general feel of a contemporary action game: a slower engagement that rewards a more careful and considered approach. It's certainly more substantial, although I've had a bit of trouble getting my head around it.
PS: It is absolutely surreal to Corey Marshall alongside voice acting heavyweights like Brianna Knickerbocker, Yuri Lowenthal and Johnny Yong Bosch.
If Bailu felt like Shenmue I, then Niaowu felt like Shenmue II. Like Hong Kong, Niaowu is a big, bustling city, with tons to see and do within; unlike Hong Kong, though, it still has a sense of community. This is something I noticed in my recent replay of II: there's a degree of distance between the player and the setting because of how scaled back the NPCs are in comparison to the first game— much more "stock", with fewer meaningful interactions or stories. III's Niaowu is not that: its inhabitants have unique names, clear personalities, and sometimes their own little stories. They're lightly sketched (especially in comparison to Bailu), but it's still enough to make the city feel convincingly lived in.
One curious thing about Niaowu: it's extremely self-referential. Some of that is to the Kickstarter campaign and its backers*, which is entirely explicable. But I'm primarily thinking of other stuff, like how concept art and screen shots from the previous games appear here as fine art; a music shop blares the same song that Joy did; bookshelves hold several familiar titles; the Tomato Convenience Store is here; and not only is there a forklift job, but it's supervised by one Hong Dejing— Delin's identical twin brother. I'm not saying this is a bad thing— it's largely incidental details, and the more obvious ones blend into the setting just fine— it's just odd to see so many references in Niaowu, when Bailu was entirely devoid of them. Perhaps a reflection of later development.
I am largely pleased with the story, both what was revealed and how it played out. The "padding" complaint rings hollow, to me; this series has always moved at a glacial pace, delighting in roundabout investigation and drawn-out sequences, and I don't think Shenmue III is really any worse in this regard. The major difference I see in the story progression is that there are fewer fights, and while I can understand criticizing that, a lack of them isn't "padding"— in fact, the opposite— and even that is sort of compensated for by the new battle dojo ("bored? fight a monk!"). Meanwhile, the revelations clear up twenty-year-old questions while raising new ones that expand the world
by exploring Iwao's history and by giving more depth to the Chi You Men
; a worthy sequel indeed. It even gives a showdown with Lan Di!
… that has Ryo hopelessly outmatched and unable to land even a single blow on him, forcing Ryo to retreat. It's very Shenmue, in the best of ways, to make the climax an anti-climax. I loved it, genuinely.
Best of all, it ends with a tease of Ryo, Shenhua and Ren traversing the Great Wall of China. Not only is that an intriguing locale, but I'm really excited to Shenhua and Ren as regular travelling companions, and really curious how those two would play off each other. Bring on Shenmue IV.
* Including the "Save Shenmue" building, which is a shrine to the series and tribute to the backers. It's one of those things that could feel eye-rollingly self-absorbed, but here it's so earnest that it avoids that. The highlight is the boards of backer-submitted photos that Ryo examines and comments on; it almost makes me wish I pledged a ridiculous amount just so Corey Marshall would drollyintonesomethingatme.
I found it much more immersive second time around. Bailu in particular was fantastic on the second play through. I'd argue one of the best Shenmue areas in the series personally. The ending sequence there with Ryo practicing was superb.
I found it much more immersive second time around. Bailu in particular was fantastic on the second play through. I'd argue one of the best Shenmue areas in the series personally. The ending sequence there with Ryo practicing was superb.
Some time to consider what to do next? Yu's had 20 years. Has the story not been completed on paper, or in his head since the release of the first game?
This is one of the main problems with Shenmue 3 is that it seems so unfocused and meandering. Grinding for money and tokens should not have taken priority over the story.
Some time to consider what to do next? Yu's had 20 years. Has the story not been completed on paper, or in his head since the release of the first game?
He has a rough idea of the story, but he's always made changes to that plan when actually making the games for various reasons, including production difficulties and audience reception.
I wish instead of menu inventory at stores it was like S1 and S2 where the items are in the store and you have to zoom in on them to buy them. The stores are all detailed, but there's no reason to look through them except for in Niaowu looking for Chobu Chan.
If it was about speeding up the game then they missed the point of Shenmue. I would add an option to buy more than one of the item though so you can stock up on black garlic or bananas.
I wish instead of menu inventory at stores it was like S1 and S2 where the items are in the store and you have to zoom in on them to buy them. The stores are all detailed, but there's no reason to look through them except for in Niaowu looking for Chobu Chan.
If it was about speeding up the game then they missed the point of Shenmue. I would add an option to buy more than one of the item though so you can stock up on black garlic or bananas.
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