Has Yu said anything about retcons in a post release interview?

danielmann861 said:
Until they are officially forgotten or contradicted then I'm not ruling anything out at this point. Otherwise it's all just speculation.
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Same. Think what we have to remember is that some inconsistency is on purpose because we're dealing with an incomplete mystery.
 
... also 20 fucking years

shit's gonna change slightly even if was same exxact engine. Nostalgia can be a detriment at times or even toxic
 
I remember Cedric saying that the ending we got for S3 wasn't the one that was planned.
Maybe due to budget and/or development time. Or perhaps because Yu changed his mind.

He changes things up A LOT, I do wonder how many rewrites or changes the story went through over the years since its initial conception.
 
I think there's only one conclusive retcon here and it's the magic in the cave. To me, the magic at the end of S2 felt like fireworks. It was there to generate ooohs and aaahhhs after 3 hours of walking and talking. They were sending the series and the Dreamcast off with a bang. That said, I don't think it's removal means anything narratively. I don't think a theoretical S3 on Dreamcast would've had more magic.

To me, the biggest narrative disappointment in S3 was not getting more info from Yuan at the very end of the game. I can forgive most of the story/character shortcomings because they were attempting a lot, but I really wish they could've added one more scene to the revised ending we got because, once they're safe, there's absolutely no way in heck Shenhua wouldn't be like "...sooo, what's with that secret cave and the letter you wrote then, ay??" Not covering that feels like a huge missing piece, on the level of the Niao Sun/Lan Di stuff escalating out of nowhere.
 
orient said:
To me, the biggest narrative disappointment in S3 was not getting more info from Yuan at the very end of the game. I can forgive most of the story/character shortcomings because they were attempting a lot, but I really wish they could've added one more scene to the revised ending we got because, once they're safe, there's absolutely no way in heck Shenhua wouldn't be like "...sooo, what's with that secret cave and the letter you wrote then, ay??" Not covering that feels like a huge missing piece, on the level of the Niao Sun/Lan Di stuff escalating out of nowhere.
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Roughly along similar lines is Shenhua's motivation for remaining with Ryo at the end. She's found her missing father, so her personal reasons for following Ryo to Niaowu have become a closed loop. The prophecy stuff isn't a realistic enough motivator when she would understandably want to return to Bailu with her sick and recently kidnapped father.

That said, I think this is all an easy fix in the next game should they choose to address it. You could cover all these subjects in a simple flashback where Mr Yuan encourages Shenhua to go with Ryo to find answers about her true parental lineage. He doesn't need to have all the answers. The carving in the stone pit has already been revealed to be a generational work by his ancestors, so some of his actions can be passed off as just doing what was expected of him.

Give Shenhua a strand of mystery to tug on about who entrusted her to Mr Yuan's care, and you've got her character arc for Shenmue IV or the rest of the series sorted.
 
orient said:
I think there's only one conclusive retcon here and it's the magic in the cave. To me, the magic at the end of S2 felt like fireworks. It was there to generate ooohs and aaahhhs after 3 hours of walking and talking. They were sending the series and the Dreamcast off with a bang. That said, I don't think it's removal means anything narratively. I don't think a theoretical S3 on Dreamcast would've had more magic.
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Even then, the magic is still there to a degree...well, sort of. It's been toned down a lot for sure, but we still catch a quick glimpse of the Phoenix Mirror gathering its mystical energy and shooting out a beam towards what we presume to be the Sword (which is currently offscreen). Shenmue 3 then skips the scene where the beam is reflected from the Sword to the torches and instead just cuts straight to the torches being lit.


I headcanon this as the Sword still technically being there in the room, but it just remains offscreen and is not shown in this recap.
 
Revan said:
Even then, the magic is still there to a degree...well, sort of. It's been toned down a lot for sure, but we still catch a quick glimpse of the Phoenix Mirror gathering its mystical energy and shooting out a beam towards what we presume to be the Sword (which is currently offscreen)
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Hmm, I don't think anyone would presume it's shooting towards anything off-screen. There's zero indication of the beam taking a detour. The camera cut from the beam to the torches is instantaneous. Without prior knowledge, the floating sword does not exist in S3's version. I don't think this has any narrative impact though, to be honest.
 
Yu confirmed the mystical elements at the end of S2 were done because they weren't sure if there'd be a S3 at that point. It was kind of a "big bang" to send S2 out with.
 
This might be a bit controversial, because I'm probably going to sound pretty harsh, but some of the retconning straight up pisses me off.

Take the above explanation. My response is, "well so what?" You did it, so now you need to just go with it. Don't retcon shit, it's just jarring. The mystical element, that blew my mind 20 odd years ago as it hinted that the series could so much grander and more epic than I had first thought (and had been hinted at in Shenmue 1), was the MAIN reason I was clamoring for a Shenmue 3!

Same with the sword being shrunk and Shenhua being redesigned. These are admittedly not a huge deal to me, but I still think Yu should have been consistent. If he wanted to change Shenhua's clothes, at least just have her change her clothes early in the game. And I know he (or someone who worked on the series) said he always envisioned that the sword would be the size it was in Shenmue 3, but a designer decided to make it larger so that it looks more epic for the finale.

It's probably a bit nitpicky, but I just think they should keep things consistent regardless of "context" that surrounds previous decisions.
 
orient said:
Hmm, I don't think anyone would presume it's shooting towards anything off-screen. There's zero indication of the beam taking a detour. The camera cut from the beam to the torches is instantaneous. Without prior knowledge, the floating sword does not exist in S3's version. I don't think this has any narrative impact though, to be honest.
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Yeah, the Sword being 'there' but offscreen is purely my headcanon at work. Someone who played S2's ending could maybe interpret Shenmue 3's intro as an abridged version of the same scene with some bits not recapped.

But enough of my crazy headcanoning, what I'm getting at is: I agree when you say the only major retcon is the lack of magic in the cave i.e. S3's retcons are small. But even with that one retcon, we still get a glimpse of the mirror shooting a beam of energy that still retains a small bit of 'magic' in that scene.

Reprise said:
Same with the sword being shrunk and Shenhua being redesigned. These are admittedly not a huge deal to me, but I still think Yu should have been consistent.
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I suspect that the size of the sword presented a bit of a challenge going forward. Ryo unsheaths his sword in the cave and it's huge (gigidy). Yuan tells Shenhua to "keep it with you" and I was left wondering 'How the heck is Ryo going to walk around with that thing?' I think they wrote themselves into a corner with that one.

Hopefully, the anime will give us one consistent version of the cave scene and sword.
 
Revan said:
I suspect that the size of the sword presented a bit of a challenge going forward. Ryo unsheaths his sword in the cave and it's huge (gigidy). Yuan tells Shenhua to "keep it with you" and I was left wondering 'How the heck is Ryo going to walk around with that thing?' I think they wrote themselves into a corner with that one.
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I had considered that, but to be honest I just imagined they could just go with it and expect players to suspend their belief. I mean, how does Ryo fit hundreds of gatcha toys in his bag whilst we're on this train of thought?
 
I'm sure in an interview I read a while back that the sword was originally supposed to be a small dagger, but the guy designing it made it too big and they were out of time so they were like "I guess it's a sword now".
 
KiddMarine said:
I'm sure in an interview I read a while back that the sword was originally supposed to be a small dagger, but the guy designing it made it too big and they were out of time so they were like "I guess it's a sword now".
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Yeah, it was some number of years ago, in an official Sega interview. They interviewed the 3D model artist who made it, and he recounted that he had misinterpreted the direction from Suzuki; Making it too large. When Suzuki saw it he supposedly said, something like, 'It was supposed to be the size of a dagger, though! --Oh well.'

Something that always intrigues me about that story is that I also recall an interview discussing Shenmue and Yu Suzuki's influence on the actual hardware design of the Dreamcast. Supposedly one of the reasons development shifted away from the Saturn in the first place was because the team wanted to have a sword fight at one point in the game, and the Saturn couldn't handle it. So there was a specific effort made to ensure that the Dreamcast hardware could allow for this sword fight. This seems to suggest that there may be other swords intended to be introduced in the story.

Anyway, it feels a little bit like people are somewhat at odds with the idea of having Suzuki make the games as he envisioned, and having anything get retconned, even if it was something that wasn't intended in the first place. I always come back to the fact that circumstances made for a highly compromised set of games in Shenmue 1 and 2, even. It just gets more complicated with a sequel almost 20 years removed from them. Nothing is ever perfect, even under the best of circumstances. Should we ever get it, there are also bound to be a number of things that become more clear with the rest of the saga,
 
Personally, I don't expect anything from or out of Yu Suzuki. He's given us all more than enough. I don't think he owes me an interview. I'd just really like to hear more from him. That's all I'm looking for when I cry about interviews. I want to know what he thinks of Shenmue 3 and about the development process. I think the doc. will give me what I'm looking for.
 
Rydeen said:
Something that always intrigues me about that story is that I also recall an interview discussing Shenmue and Yu Suzuki's influence on the actual hardware design of the Dreamcast. Supposedly one of the reasons development shifted away from the Saturn in the first place was because the team wanted to have a sword fight at one point in the game, and the Saturn couldn't handle it. So there was a specific effort made to ensure that the Dreamcast hardware could allow for this sword fight. This seems to suggest that there may be other swords intended to be introduced in the story.
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That's interesting, I haven't seen that intervew. But that would tie in quite nicely with the multiple unused sword models in the game files!
https://www.phantomriverstone.com/2021/12/the-mystery-of-hazuki-handguard-and.html

For anyone who'd like to read the interview where the dagger/sword was mentioned:
https://www.phantomriverstone.com/2018/02/interview-with-shenmue-ii-designer.html
 
I did not know that there was a sword fight planned. Very interesting stuff. But it would not fit to the lore. In S2 while Ryo was looking for Yuan there were some conversations with weapon dealers to find out about Yuan's knive. in that scene they offered Ryo to buy a weapon and he declined the offer.It seems that Ryo is not very interested in bladed weapons or weapons in general.

Would be cool though if there would a fight between Ryo using the Hazuki sword and Land Di using something a chinese Dao or a Jian like in teh classic Kung Fu Movies.
 
woah, didn't know about the interview!! The dagger "retcon" which was completely non-consequential and nit-picked actually was the original intended size hahaha

If we were suppose to suspend disbelief on Ryo fitting dozens of items in pocket, sure we can too for a sword. Don't understand how the same suspension cannot apply to the size changing after 20 years and/or other small common complaints such as clothing or a tapestry.

We will go to Luoyang, but there's less impetus for teasing due to the series not being in limbo as bad as the end of Dreamcast. Suzuki has admitted as much iirc; the entire Guilin section and especially the end from Shenhua's house was somewhat rushed in to at least begin showing small portion of Yu's favorite bit
 
mjqjazzbar said:
Personally, I don't expect anything from or out of Yu Suzuki. He's given us all more than enough. I don't think he owes me an interview. I'd just really like to hear more from him. That's all I'm looking for when I cry about interviews. I want to know what he thinks of Shenmue 3 and about the development process. I think the doc. will give me what I'm looking for.
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I can't remember the interview, but I believe Yu Suzuki himself rated Shenmue 3 a 6/10
 
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