Kickstarter Update #102 - PC Gaming Show Update: New Trailer & Epic Games Store Exclusive For PC Version! Part 2

GhostTrick said:
You're right. We were promised a PC version in the Kickstarter.

And then we ordered a Steam version through fangamer. Now they have a legal obligation.

Now either they deliver it or refund. Scamming backers isnt cool.
Click to expand...
I'd love to know what the legal stuff is behind this.

How they define version of a game. For example PC and PS4 version, clear distinction between platforms. So if you ordered a PS4 version and got a PC version with no explaination/refund you could challenge that.

PC is a gaming platform.

Steam is a video game digital distribution platform developed by Valve Corporation. That is in all Valves own documentation and how it defines Steam in.

The Epic Games Store is a digital video game storefront operated by Epic Games,that how it is defined publically. So without getting into too many nuances it is one and the same with Steam in what it does and that is deliver games digitially.

The version of the PC game if delivered by Steam or Epic wouldn't change. It is the client support that would. So by changing delivery platform to deliver the reward they are fulfilling said reward.

Steam isn't defined as a gaming platform like PC, PS4, Xbox etc. There lies the issue that legally creates doubt to the arguement they must produce a Steam version to backers who ordered via fangamer. This is why it would get properly messy in court, not that I think it would get there.

That said, and I've said this many times it is morally not good that they have changed this without communication and people are, quite rightly angered by this and I hope they give everyone an Epic and then later Steam Key with all digital rewards.
 
spud1897 said:
I'd love to know what the legal stuff is behind this.

How they define version of a game. For example PC and PS4 version, clear distinction between platforms. So if you ordered a PS4 version and got a PC version with no explaination/refund you could challenge that.

PC is a gaming platform.

Steam is a video game digital distribution platform developed by Valve Corporation. That is in all Valves own documentation and how it defines Steam in.

The Epic Games Store is a digital video game storefront operated by Epic Games,that how it is defined publically. So without getting into too many nuances it is one and the same with Steam in what it does and that is deliver games digitially.

The version of the PC game if delivered by Steam or Epic wouldn't change. It is the client support that would. So by changing delivery platform to deliver the reward they are fulfilling said reward.

Steam isn't defined as a gaming platform like PC, PS4, Xbox etc. There lies the issue that legally creates doubt to the arguement they must produce a Steam version to backers who ordered via fangamer. This is why it would get properly messy in court, not that I think it would get there.

That said, and I've said this many times it is morally not good that they have changed this without communication and people are, quite rightly angered by this and I hope they give everyone an Epic and then later Steam Key with all digital rewards.
Click to expand...



It all comes down to what was sold indeed.
If on Fangamer, they were letting people choose between "PC digital" and "PC physical" which would then redeem on Steam like the system requirements subject to change claimed, they'd be fine.

The problem is, they let people choose between "Steam digital" and "Physical Steam Disc".

Making that distinction means you're making the platform is on "Steam" a characteristic, even the product you're selling, with all the features it means.

Some people here make it sounds like "it makes no difference, you receive the same product". But it just betrays their lack of knowledge of the PC platform or how a sell can include both a GOOD and a SERVICE.

If you buy a plane ticket to Hong Kong (see what I did here ?) for X plane company in the business class. But then you receive a ticket with Y plane company in the economic class. Sure, in the end, you're still going to Hong Kong. But the expectation to use X company meant you were expecting a service coming with it, or reliability.

In that case, Jimmy lied to you. So you'd be right to ask for what you paid for.
 
I really hope people get what they want but I am shocked at how much the Shenmue fans are overreacting to this…
I donate money (two month's salary) for the game to be made and I do not care about ANYTHING other than that… especially when at the time of donation no one promised such a thing (steam)...
 
Also, one more thing @spud1897 Steam IS a platform and a storefront. Steam has an SDK, it has a suit of tools that has to be integrated into games, such as achievements, matchmaking, controller support, VR support, mod support and more. It is a suit of tool that use your account as a base to link all of these features from that SDK, just like PlayStation Network and Xbox Live.
partner.steamgames.com

Steamworks - Build & Distribute Your Games on Steam

Steamworks is a set of tools and services that help game developers and publishers build their games and get the most out of distributing on Steam.
partner.steamgames.com partner.steamgames.com
 
Thomasina said:
I love Shenmue. I don't hate Shenmue. I just don't trust Ys Net and Yu Suzuki any more. They broke that trust and good will. I put forth $800 to that man so he could continue his vision and one of my favorite series. I did not foresee this happening. If that kickstarter was in effect today, with Epic's involvement, I wouldn't contribute any money and I would wait until a Steam release, if it happened.
Click to expand...

You absolutely should not blame Ys Net or Yu Suzuki for this. The publisher (Deep Silver) is responsible for all marketing and contracts related to the game. Blame Ys Net or Yu Suzuki if the game is bad.
 
I really wish some leakers or whizzle blower will ermerge. I really want to out what is going one behind the Scenes. First steam leaks the new release date, just to Change it back and then steam loses the game for one year. A really funny coinsidence.

Then the delay happens all of a sudden. Did they run out of Money and the epic deal helped them to polish the game anymore. Why did the epic deal happend all of a sudden? Many questions that will be never answered..
 
GhostTrick said:
Also, one more thing @spud1897 Steam IS a platform and a storefront. Steam has an SDK, it has a suit of tools that has to be integrated into games, such as achievements, matchmaking, controller support, VR support, mod support and more. It is a suit of tool that use your account as a base to link all of these features from that SDK, just like PlayStation Network and Xbox Live.
partner.steamgames.com

Steamworks - Build & Distribute Your Games on Steam

Steamworks is a set of tools and services that help game developers and publishers build their games and get the most out of distributing on Steam.
partner.steamgames.com partner.steamgames.com
Click to expand...
Is Steam works classed as integrated or optional?

Also would YS.NET have used it?

You see why legally this would be for all purposes a nightmare.
 
I also do not think that the critics have a Change to do any harm legally, but they have already done enough harm with bad PR. Bad PR can bring the small companies down that are involved in S3. They are not EA, Ubisoft and other giants that could survive that.

So I really hope they act quick to resolve the Problem.
 
spud1897 said:
Is Steam works classed as integrated or optional?

Also would YS.NET have used it?

You see why legally this would be for all purposes a nightmare.
Click to expand...


Of course they did. The best proof is that they integrated achievements through it.
steamdb.info

Shenmue III · AppID: 878670

Shenmue III sees the eagerly anticipated continuation of the epic story-driven saga. Take control of Ryo Hazuki, a teenage martial artist, determined to unravel the mystery behind his father's murder and to exact revenge on the killer. Shenmue III Steam charts, data, update history.
steamdb.info steamdb.info

Legally, it's not complicated at all.


Reprise said:
Okay. Sue them, let's see what happens.

Spoiler: It wouldn't even make it to court.
Click to expand...

It could. But I get it. You're being overly defensive because you don't want anyone to generate bad buzz around Shenmue III. I get it, I feel the same. But the sole party responsible here are YsNet and Deep Silver. Because they're being greedy.

Yes, I dropped the word. G.R.E.E.D.Y. It's a non issue they can solve for pretty much 0 DOLLARS.

If they cant give us Steam keys on day one, that means they sold us to Epic. That's scummy but that's fine because in any case, they can still give us Steam keys a year after release, when the exclusivity periods ends. The only reason they may not do so is IF they want backers to buy the game again on Steam, a product they already paid for. IF that's the case, then that's being greedy.
 
I have no issue with businesses being "greedy". That's free market capitalism. The whole point of running a business is to make money and the Epic deal was done to reduce risk and maximise profit. Sure, you could argue it has blown up in their faces and ironically was actually risky decision, but from a business point of view, it obviously made sense.

I would fully be in favour of Steam keys being issued to all PC backers who want them, as soon as they are available though. It shouldn't be difficult, Bloodstained gave me a Steam key (albeit a temporary one?) for Curse of the Moon when Nintendo eShop codes failed to be issued on release.
 
Reprise said:
I have no issue with businesses being "greedy". That's free market capitalism. The whole point of running a business is to make money and the Epic deal was done to reduce risk and maximise profit. Sure, you could argue it has blown up in their faces and ironically was actually risky decision, but from a business point of view, it obviously made sense.

I would fully be in favour of Steam keys being issued to all PC backers who want them, as soon as they are available though. It shouldn't be difficult, Bloodstained gave me a Steam key (albeit a temporary one?) for Curse of the Moon when Nintendo eShop codes failed to be issued on release.
Click to expand...


No, you don't get me here.

Is YsNet and Deep Silver greedy for taking a deal with Epic ? Certainly not. More money is better.

What I call greedy is if YsNet and Deep Silver refuse to issue Steam keys, at launch or a year later, to Steam backers. Because issueing keys is FREE. Litterally FREE. Steam doesn't charge them. They never did. This is why Phoenix Point backers are getting both Epic keys at launch and Steam keys a year later.

The only possible reasoning, if they refuse to do so, is that they expect backers to buy the game again on the service they were promised keys when they ordered on Fangamer. Now that is greedy.
 
I do have an issue with businesses being greedy, when it damages the reputation of Yu Suzuki and heaps negative PR on the Shenmue series. It was a terrible decision.
 
So am I the only one changing my PC physical version pledge to ps4 version and cutting their losses? I'll keep it sealed. But means I'm buying one less version now as I were going to buy digital and two physical versions one to keep sealed and another to open. Now I'll just be buying a digital version and one physical. I imagine I'm not the only one. So this is already costing them sales.
 
Dumb question time though. How can they issue Steam keys for a game that is not on Steam? How does it work? That's why I support Steam keys being given as soon as is actually possible, whether that's day one or in a year's time.

Also, I get why they may be reluctant to issue Steam keys, because they may not be able to do it on day one in place of a Epic key, which means two keys being received and the option being there for it to be a loss of sale, i.e. if someone passes one of their keys to one of their friends so they don't have to buy the game...
 
Reprise said:
Dumb question time though. How can they issue Steam keys for a game that is not on Steam? How does it work? That's why I support Steam keys being given as soon as is actually possible, whether that's day one or in a year's time.

Also, I get why they may be reluctant to issue Steam keys, because they may not be able to do it on day one in place of a Epic key, which means two keys being received and the option being there for it to be a loss of sale, i.e. if someone passes one of their keys to one of their friends so they don't have to buy the game...
Click to expand...


When you see your backer as a "lost sale", that's being super greedy. They can issue "beta" or "pre-order" keys. If they cant do it on day one, they can do it when the exclusivity period is over.

As I said, it all comes down to how YsNet see the whole thing:
Do I want to make my backers buy the game twice ?
 
Would anyone really buy the game twice though? Let's be honest, and I mean no disrespect, but the majority of backers will either switch to a PS4 version or just stick with the Epic version and suck it up. By the time the Steam version is released are you really going to still care?
 
Reprise said:
Would anyone really buy the game twice though? Let's be honest, and I mean no disrespect, but the majority of backers will either switch to a PS4 version or just stick with the Epic version and suck it up. By the time the Steam version is released are you really going to still care?
Click to expand...


Yes. Because remember there's also content coming next. I mean, I know the gaming industry is used to shitty practices, but it's not like someone's word should be meaningless to that point nowadays.

And "stop going to care". I didn't knew games had a limit date, especially Shenmue III, that'd mean no one wants to get back to it.
 
GhostTrick said:
And "stop going to care". I didn't knew games had a limit date, especially Shenmue III, that'd mean no one wants to get back to it.
Click to expand...

They do for me now :p

I play through games once and move on usually nowadays. You're right though, Shenmue is pretty special, so maybe that won't be the case for Shenmue 3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top