Magic Monaco Press Conference

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I'd say S3 began as a "Kickstarter" game, but I'm a little indifferent with that now. I look at this in the same way as I do "Kingdom Come: Deliverance," but with a little more beef added to it.
 
I actually think the 2017 Gamescom trailer was great if viewed within the context of it being a development update of a game that was pre-Alpha and a couple of years away from being ready for release. They really should not have presented it as a trailer and should have prefaced it with a disclaimer that it is pre-alpha, character models are essentially placeholders and facial animations have not yet been implemented.

I don't believe the 'showing too much, too early leads to negativity' belief. I personally believe as long as full context and disclaimers are given, then it's fine to show off what is being worked on.
 
My rudimentary French can translate that:

Press Conference Monegasque, of MAGIC Monaco is at 5:00 pm/ 17:00 at Grimaldi Forum, on February the 19th :)
 
Sheephead said:
New tweet from Cedric. Do we know what this is?


I guess nothing to do with S3, otherwise he would have tagged it?
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There's usually a secondary press conference for MAGIC after the one in Paris. This one will be for local press in Monaco I imagine.

Will likely contain no new news, as previously it's basically just been a repeat of the Paris press conference.
 
Reprise said:
I actually think the 2017 Gamescom trailer was great if viewed within the context of it being a development update of a game that was pre-Alpha and a couple of years away from being ready for release. They really should not have presented it as a trailer and should have prefaced it with a disclaimer that it is pre-alpha, character models are essentially placeholders and facial animations have not yet been implemented.

I don't believe the 'showing too much, too early leads to negativity' belief. I personally believe as long as full context and disclaimers are given, then it's fine to show off what is being worked on.
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You nailed it.
Frankly, it was the bungled communication in general that was consistently annoying the fuck out of me; from the early Awesome Japan stuff, all the way to past Magic iterations. Add to that the original lack of any real “WIP” context in the game’s various character and trailer reveals, and it basically felt like amateur hour had taken over.

In hindsight, while all this BS was going on, we thankfully had YS actually working hard on making a good game. Still, I’m curious to see the real marketing push that March will undoubtedly kick off. Let’s hope they’ve learned from past mistakes, and are able to give this delicate game the best chance possible.
 
Yeah, i think in the grand scheme of things, its probably best they messed up those first few attempts in promoting the game. Now they have the knowledge and experience of what NOT to do when marketing Shenmue 3 going forward.
 
Y'know, as someone who remembers:

  • A Kotaku contributor writing an article to mock the placeholder cover design on the physical version during the Kickstarter
  • People shitting over the visuals in the very first testing shots we saw in October 2015
  • Comments post-Gamescom '17 that "the game will look like that on release, they won't change it - guaranteed"

I think Ys Net could have slapped all the disclaimers and "pre-alpha/prototype" watermarks they liked on footage and screens, and it wouldn't have made a huge difference in the way some of these people reacted. Many of them disengaged their brains from the word go, which is why all three of those points above actually happened despite even the most basic of logic showing how flimsily justified they are.

The only way to have truly avoided the reactions we've seen, would be to have shown nothing at all until approximately this point. As we all know, that couldn't actually happen.

Lessons have probably been learned, but I'm not sure there was ever a perfect scenario where Ys Net could show unfinished materials without attracting some amount of shit. Sometimes you just can't have your cake and eat it too.

-----

As an aside I'd recommend people reading Jason Schreier's book, Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. It gives an inside look at the development of multiple games, from AAA to indie, Kickstarted to publisher funded. I'm maybe about a third of the way through and already I'm thinking of Shenmue III in the context of a lot of these development stories.

I ended up getting the Audible version for free by gaming their free trial system. I think I've basically ended up with half a dozen audiobooks that way over the years, and haven't paid for a single one.
 
Spaghetti said:
Y'know, as someone who remembers:

  • A Kotaku contributor writing an article to mock the placeholder cover design on the physical version during the Kickstarter
  • People shitting over the visuals in the very first testing shots we saw in October 2015
  • Comments post-Gamescom '17 that "the game will look like that on release, they won't change it - guaranteed"

I think Ys Net could have slapped all the disclaimers and "pre-alpha/prototype" watermarks they liked on footage and screens, and it wouldn't have made a huge difference in the way some of these people reacted. Many of them disengaged their brains from the word go, which is why all three of those points above actually happened despite even the most basic of logic showing how flimsily justified they are.

The only way to have truly avoided the reactions we've seen, would be to have shown nothing at all until approximately this point. As we all know, that couldn't actually happen.

Lessons have probably been learned, but I'm not sure there was ever a perfect scenario where Ys Net could show unfinished materials without attracting some amount of shit. Sometimes you just can't have your cake and eat it too.

-----

As an aside I'd recommend people reading Jason Schreier's book, Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. It gives an inside look at the development of multiple games, from AAA to indie, Kickstarted to publisher funded. I'm maybe about a third of the way through and already I'm thinking of Shenmue III in the context of a lot of these development stories.

I ended up getting the Audible version for free by gaming their free trial system. I think I've basically ended up with half a dozen audiobooks that way over the years, and haven't paid for a single one.
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Gaming journalism is heavily irrelavant and they know this so they target passionate communities like this for rage clicks. Most modern mainstream game journalists are not even gamers, they're people with jouralism degrees who failed to become real journalists, so they settled. Now all they do is write about politics via the lense of gaming or make clickbaity shit articles that are deliberately false. They're an elite class who forgot they're supposed to support consumer advocacy. They sit in their ivory towers getting rich doing a job ANYONE on this forum would do better. Fuck them.
 
Spaghetti said:
As an aside I'd recommend people reading Jason Schreier's book, Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. It gives an inside look at the development of multiple games, from AAA to indie, Kickstarted to publisher funded. I'm maybe about a third of the way through and already I'm thinking of Shenmue III in the context of a lot of these development stories.
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I listened to this a few months back -- it's a very good mix of development stories. Say what you will about Kotaku, but Schreier is one of the only real journalists in games media (by the traditional sense of the word). He wants to expose what happens behind the scenes, positive or negative, and I respect that.

Jigen said:
Gaming journalism is heavily irrelavant and they know this so they target passionate communities like this for rage clicks. Most modern mainstream game journalists are not even gamers, they're people with jouralism degrees who failed to become real journalists, so they settled. Now all they do is write about politics via the lense of gaming or make clickbaity shit articles that are deliberately false. They're an elite class who forgot they're supposed to support consumer advocacy. They sit in their ivory towers getting rich doing a job ANYONE on this forum would do better. Fuck them.
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YouTubers are just as bad though, when it comes to clickbait headlines and contrarian "hot takes". With YT and Twitch there's also the dirty undercurrent of sponsored content and "paid for" coverage, which is so much worse. I think you have to judge the integrity of a person or an outlet on a case-by-case basis. To say "all games journalists suck" is painting in very broad strokes.

And to be fair, there are very few game journalists "getting rich" writing about games. It's a notoriously underpaid profession, and the idea that most of them do it for the money or because they failed to become "real" journalists simply isn't true.
 
Jigen said:
Gaming journalism is heavily irrelavant and they know this so they target passionate communities like this for rage clicks. Most modern mainstream game journalists are not even gamers, they're people with jouralism degrees who failed to become real journalists, so they settled. Now all they do is write about politics via the lense of gaming or make clickbaity shit articles that are deliberately false. They're an elite class who forgot they're supposed to support consumer advocacy. They sit in their ivory towers getting rich doing a job ANYONE on this forum would do better. Fuck them.
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Yeah, well that's clearly bollocks.
 
Gaming journalism gets a bad reputation but they clearly don't help themselves. How often do we see ill informed articles that are published and then not corrected? Realtively often, more than it should be seen in all honestly.

There's certainly the clickbaity stuff, especially around the Gamescom 2017 stuff that came out. Quite clearly it was sensationalised to get people to read it and ill informed but this also happens in mainline media too. What's also not helped them is the fact that now that Shenmue 3 is looking good none of the mainline gaming sites have even mentioned it. That says volumes about the approach to Shenmue 3 as a whole.

Wider there were highligted issues in cash for reviews and people getting fired for not too complimentry reviews: https://kotaku.com/yes-a-games-writer-was-fired-over-review-scores-5893785

https://www.theverge.com/2016/7/12/12157310/pewdiepie-youtubers-sponsored-videos-ftc-warner-bros

This doesn't help but to tar all games journalists with the same brush is a little harsh. Some do write good balanced articles and I'd point to IGN Japan as a good example of this. Shame there's not lots more like it. Also with a shift in gaming behaviours and more obscure titles coming to the fore the types of reviews to these types of games have become more positive as they've become popular.

The final Shenmue 3 reviews will be very interesting and I reckon will range from 90-65 depending on the site. We shall see.
 
I never said ALL I said most and I stand by what I've said. I think gaming journalism is irrelevant and I think a majority of journalists are purposely incompetent. There are some good people still Easy Allies is a great group.
 
I'm not saying games journalism is great as a whole, either; like any form of media coverage most of it is throw-away crap, but there are great sites out there doing great work, and to dismiss those writers/producers along with the rest of them is unfair.

spud1897 said:
What's also not helped them is the fact that now that Shenmue 3 is looking good none of the mainline gaming sites have even mentioned it. That says volumes about the approach to Shenmue 3 as a whole.
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I think it's less insidious than that. The mainstream games media aren't going to report on a pre-event show for a French con just because there was one screenshot of an improved Ryo. We should wait for the actual event to judge the press coverage and reaction.

As for "corruption" in the games media, I'm less concerned about a guy being fired for a bad review (it happened like 7 years ago and is not a common occurrence) and I'm more concerned about YouTubers and Twitch streamers who have no accountability to anyone -- they can take money for covering games, no questions asked. Many of them are young and are just excited to get paid to play a game or get free shit, without considering the ethics of the situation.
 
IMO most games coverage is rubbish. Doesn't matter where it comes from, big sites like Gamespot or IGN are as prone to failure as YouTubers.

Part of it is scale. There are so many games releasing that it's probably hard to get on top of every single detail about development. That doesn't excuse the times where Shenmue III coverage has been inaccurate because nobody took even a minute to read details openly available on the Kickstarter page, or because the writer in question literally just made shit up (most egregious examples were over the budget during the early KS days).

The other part of the equation is the people behind most of this coverage are basically ascended forum posters, just given a megaphone. Many of them just use their position to cynically test out their limp-dicked attempts at dry humour, jockeying to be the A.A Gill of games. There's far too much importance placed on the opinion of people who work for a games news/reviews site, or have a popular YouTube channel. I worry that people don't trust their own tastes enough, and need to be spoon-fed an opinion because they don't want to go through the work of forming one for themselves.

For every great article or video, you have to basically wade through a mountain of shit to get there.
 
Spaghetti said:
IMO most games coverage is rubbish. Doesn't matter where it comes from, big sites like Gamespot or IGN are as prone to failure as YouTubers.

Part of it is scale. There are so many games releasing that it's probably hard to get on top of every single detail about development. That doesn't excuse the times where Shenmue III coverage has been inaccurate because nobody took even a minute to read details openly available on the Kickstarter page, or because the writer in question literally just made shit up (most egregious examples were over the budget during the early KS days).

The other part of the equation is the people behind most of this coverage are basically ascended forum posters, just given a megaphone. Many of them just use their position to cynically test out their limp-dicked attempts at dry humour, jockeying to be the A.A Gill of games. There's far too much importance placed on the opinion of people who work for a games news/reviews site, or have a popular YouTube channel. I worry that people don't trust their own tastes enough, and need to be spoon-fed an opinion because they don't want to go through the work of forming one for themselves.

For every great article or video, you have to basically wade through a mountain of shit to get there.
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This is a much more eloquent way to describe my thoughts.
 
Game journalism changed a lot. Back in the 90s the articles were written by enthusiasts and it was a niche Thing.

Today there is lots of Money behind it, and thanks to the Internet Publishing click bait articles in the Internet is a common Thing today.

Iti s a bitty though. With todays Technology it would be quite easy to put high Quality stuff akin to the old magazines in the Internet but some people prefer not to so.

But I stil think that gaming jouranalism even in it's had state now has to stay. It is not a valid Option to leave the gaming journalism to random dudes on YouTube, twitch and Twitter.

Nothing against lets Player, and influencer and so on they should be a part of the gaming landscape, but just a part. Old style gaming jouranlism has to stay. Although I hope that they will evolve to a more profesional state again and not just following Trends and put politics into their gaming coverage.

No offense to any americans here, but todays America is crazy. I cannot think of any other Country that mixes politics with enterainment. I am not sure if that is a real issue, or just a YouTube Thing, but it seems that even games in the states are seen in a political light. Everything is offensive and racist these days and that is just crazy. Makes gaming journalism even worse.


I personaly prefer print magazines over online articles though. Too bad that there are not many gaming magazines left worth reading.
 
Spaghetti said:
IMO most games coverage is rubbish. Doesn't matter where it comes from, big sites like Gamespot or IGN are as prone to failure as YouTubers.

Part of it is scale. There are so many games releasing that it's probably hard to get on top of every single detail about development. That doesn't excuse the times where Shenmue III coverage has been inaccurate because nobody took even a minute to read details openly available on the Kickstarter page, or because the writer in question literally just made shit up (most egregious examples were over the budget during the early KS days).

The other part of the equation is the people behind most of this coverage are basically ascended forum posters, just given a megaphone. Many of them just use their position to cynically test out their limp-dicked attempts at dry humour, jockeying to be the A.A Gill of games. There's far too much importance placed on the opinion of people who work for a games news/reviews site, or have a popular YouTube channel. I worry that people don't trust their own tastes enough, and need to be spoon-fed an opinion because they don't want to go through the work of forming one for themselves.

For every great article or video, you have to basically wade through a mountain of shit to get there.
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If U look at Jim sterlings comment section of shenmue videos vs his Red Dead 2 criticism vid the same people that agreed with his "Realism sucks" opinion on shenmue lambasted him when he did the same for RDR2 claiming it's "ART". o_O:rolleyes::cautious: I think there is some tribalism going on in "Gamers" community as well why we're seeing double-standards.
 
9dragons said:
Game journalism changed a lot. Back in the 90s the articles were written by enthusiasts and it was a niche Thing.

Today there is lots of Money behind it, and thanks to the Internet Publishing click bait articles in the Internet is a common Thing today.

Iti s a bitty though. With todays Technology it would be quite easy to put high Quality stuff akin to the old magazines in the Internet but some people prefer not to so.

But I stil think that gaming jouranalism even in it's had state now has to stay. It is not a valid Option to leave the gaming journalism to random dudes on YouTube, twitch and Twitter.

Nothing against lets Player, and influencer and so on they should be a part of the gaming landscape, but just a part. Old style gaming jouranlism has to stay. Although I hope that they will evolve to a more profesional state again and not just following Trends and put politics into their gaming coverage.

No offense to any americans here, but todays America is crazy. I cannot think of any other Country that mixes politics with enterainment. I am not sure if that is a real issue, or just a YouTube Thing, but it seems that even games in the states are seen in a political light. Everything is offensive and racist these days and that is just crazy. Makes gaming journalism even worse.


I personaly prefer print magazines over online articles though. Too bad that there are not many gaming magazines left worth reading.
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What makes these journalists any better than YouTuber's or whatever? I just don't get the idea of them being irreplaceable.
 
Rocksstar has a very strong fanbase in the casual gaming world, that's why RS can get away with many Things and Shenmue not.

For the fanboys the boring stuff you have to do in Redemption 2 it is ok although it has no Point, while Shenmue can't.

The weird stuff is, that boring stuff in Shemue has a Point, it helps to emulate a living world, while the stuff in Redemption 2 is just a a Thing that makes the game longer. But that's just my opinion.
 
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