Move training not working? (No bar progress on move list)

Billkwando said:
There are a few different problems here, but the move isn't supposed to evolve until the bar reaches the halfway point. Part of the issue is that the progress is being shown prematurely, and giving the evolved version of the move when sufficient progress has not actually been made, I think. I was able to eventually train all of my (non-harbor) punch and kick moves up to 100%, and the progress stayed.
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? I’m not seeing the bar change, but the move does. It evolves on the move list then while I’m practicing. It will stay evolved all day until I go home and sleep. The next morning, the moves are reset back to their basic form. Both Xbox and PS versions are doing it too.
 
ShOzO MiZuKi 10/2003 said:
? I’m not seeing the bar change, but the move does. It evolves on the move list then while I’m practicing. It will stay evolved all day until I go home and sleep. The next morning, the moves are reset back to their basic form. Both Xbox and PS versions are doing it too.
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Yes, I understand perfectly. Once the move hits the halfway point, it will turn orange and will legitimately evolve, and stay that way. Currently, you only ever see progress the next day.

Have you seen my thread here?: https://www.shenmuedojo.com/forum/i...ress-bars-how-long-to-master-fully-maxed.455/

The easiest way to keep track of your move progress, other than screenshotting, is to note which letters in the move name the progress is close to, so you have a frame of reference (ex: "Oh, it's up past the B in Shoulder Buster now")
 
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ShOzO MiZuKi 10/2003 said:
? I’m not seeing the bar change, but the move does. It evolves on the move list then while I’m practicing. It will stay evolved all day until I go home and sleep. The next morning, the moves are reset back to their basic form. Both Xbox and PS versions are doing it too.
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Yeah in training the moves evolve after a while even when they haven't actually leveled up to that experience level, it's a bug.
They revert back the next day to what they should be, but again if you start training the bug happens.
You should still be getting experience on the moves when you sleep. But be careful of saving and reloading after training but before sleeping it can sometimes make you lose the training progress which is another bug.
But like Bill says once you do acumlate enough experience they will stay in that evloved form from then on in training/battles.
 
It sounds completely broken. The workarounds barely make sense to me, and the game doesn't really provide you with a good primer on how to level your moves. Without progression bars that work, there's almost no point in training if you can't figure out what level you're at.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
It sounds completely broken. The workarounds barely make sense to me, and the game doesn't really provide you with a good primer on how to level your moves. Without progression bars that work, there's almost no point in training if you can't figure out what level you're at.
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What workarounds? The move leveling works fine (not counting the overnight training menu). Yeah it's confusing that it shows them evolved prematurely, but once you're aware of it, it's really just a bonus for that day....you get a preview of what the move will be like once it actually meets the halfway point.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with the "almost no point in training" thing. You would have to practice one move pretty much the entire day to level it completely (trust me, I've done it), so unless that's what you're doing, there isn't even a slight chance of wasted effort from practicing, if you just work on multiple moves.

If you're working on 3 moves at once, you just check each day and see if you're close to max and if you are, practice the almost maxed move less that day. If, when you get up the next morning, you see you need a little bit more progress, then do a little bit more practice.

No, it's not perfect, but there's nothing to stop you from leveling your moves if you want to, if you do it strategically (which you kinda have to do anyway if you're trying to level everything).
 
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I think it’s broken for the majority of people who won’t understand that. You’re just familiar with the games so there’s no issue for you.
 
It's not totally fucking baffling, but I think most people who aren't familiar with the system and see a lack of discernible progression will just move on with it and find the training completely uninvolving and pointless? That's how it feels to me, personally, having not played these games in years. I guess I'm totally off base and Sega should just ignore this nonissue.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
It's not totally fucking baffling, but I think most people who aren't familiar with the system and see a lack of discernible progression will just move on with it and find the training completely uninvolving and pointless? That's how it feels to me, personally, having not played these games in years. I guess I'm totally off base and Sega should just ignore this nonissue.
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I think alot of player found training kinda pointless/boring even when it worked on DC Shenmue that's why it's not in Shenmue 2 and you have other fighting activites.

Being one of the few dudes who does like training since the moves evolve and exp carries over to S2 I would hope they could get to fixing it since it's not intended behaviour in the old games.
But I'm not holding my breath on it.:coldsweat:
 
Yeah, but I don’t like hearing it’s ok it’s broken because duh it’s just so simple to understand, man. That’s not true at all. And even if it is, why should they get a pass? For some it’s a major component of the game.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
Yeah, but I don’t like hearing it’s ok it’s broken because duh it’s just so simple to understand, man. That’s not true at all. And even if it is, why should they get a pass? For some it’s a major component of the game.
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Yeah I feel what ya sayin'. It's okay because it's your problem not mine. :laughing:
It dosen't get a pass just on the fact these are sold to be replica's of the old releases, hence why I even bother to report them in the hope they get fixed to become the modern dreamcast version equivalent, if not better with the other quality of life stuff they do add.
 
mjqjazzbar said:
It's not totally fucking baffling, but I think most people who aren't familiar with the system and see a lack of discernible progression will just move on with it and find the training completely uninvolving and pointless? That's how it feels to me, personally, having not played these games in years. I guess I'm totally off base and Sega should just ignore this nonissue.
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I'm sorry I wasn't clear. That was not sarcasm on my part. I was legit agreeing with you. It's not intuitive at all and it DOES need to be fixed. I plan on buying this game for lots of people, eventually, so believe me when I say I want all of this stuff fixed.

This is my favorite game of all time, and I want to present it in its best light.

Also, the fighting is kinda my favorite part of my favorite game, so I am super serious about it getting fixed. As a matter of fact, I just tweeted to d3t about just that:



 
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I'm late to the thread but I read up a bit. I got a discussion going about this on FAQs about a month ago:

I messed around with this a bit. From what I tested it's actually Training that you have to do to see the benefits of your practice, not Sleeping. But check it out, it gets better....

Here's the step-by-step:
1.) Practice, and do a single move at least 10 times.
2.) Next, go to your bed anytime after 8pm when "Training" is available.
3.) Select "Training", and afterwards choose any Training option that you want. It doesn't matter which one you choose, but you MUST choose one of the four options to get the benefits of your practice from step #1. Backing out at this point won't do it.
After selecting a Training option you will see the move that you practiced during step #1 increase.

WARNING: After step #1, if you Save your game, Exit the game, and then Load your game...you will NOT receive the benefits of your training when you get to step #3.
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TL;DR
Using the "Training" function at night was the key to getting your moves to properly progress, not going to Sleep. Throughout my testing Sleeping never affected my moves at all.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76925784

And yeah, the thing where your moves suddenly look Expert-level but you haven't trained them that high and then they revert back to normal is very weird.
I haven't had a lot of time to test things lately so I'm not sure if the last patch fixed any of this.

The only other useful info I have is regarding how "Training" works. Note that I tested this on the Dreamcast version:
2.) With Training: so most people say that the "Training" option at Ryo's bed (nighttime only) affects what moves increase in strength for Ryo when he goes to sleep. I haven't witnessed that "increase" myself at all after sleeping, so then the question is when DO the effects of the "Training" option actually show? I myself thought QTE fights were related to it because I remember a few times when my moves increased in strength after a QTE fight, but that doesn't seem to be the complete answer. So here's what I've figured out:

During certain events of the actual STORY the strength of your moves will suddenly increase. I can already confirm the first two events in the game:
The first event is at the beginning of the game where you first talk to Fuku in the dojo and ask him about Lan Di. The moment the cutscene ends and Ryo leaves the dojo check your moves scroll. You'll notice your moves have suddenly increased in strength.
The second event is when you talk to Tom about the black car and he tells you to look for Chinese people. The moment that conversation ends check your moves. Another increase.
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TL;DR
I've heard several times that, in regards to which type of Training you have selected, Sleeping is when your moves will increase in strength but I myself have not experienced that. My moves have always increased when certain story-related events or key conversations occurred. One of them being at the beginning of the game when you first talk to Fuku in the dojo, and another is later when Tom gives you a lead to look for Chinese people.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76932736

I hope some of this helps out.
 
Darkside_Hazuki said:
I'm late to the thread but I read up a bit. I got a discussion going about this on FAQs about a month ago:



TL;DR
Using the "Training" function at night was the key to getting your moves to properly progress, not going to Sleep. Throughout my testing Sleeping never affected my moves at all.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76925784

And yeah, the thing where your moves suddenly look Expert-level but you haven't trained them that high and then they revert back to normal is very weird.
I haven't had a lot of time to test things lately so I'm not sure if the last patch fixed any of this.

The only other useful info I have is regarding how "Training" works. Note that I tested this on the Dreamcast version:


TL;DR
I've heard several times that, in regards to which type of Training you have selected, Sleeping is when your moves will increase in strength but I myself have not experienced that. My moves have always increased when certain story-related events or key conversations occurred. One of them being at the beginning of the game when you first talk to Fuku in the dojo, and another is later when Tom gives you a lead to look for Chinese people.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76932736

I hope some of this helps out.
Click to expand...

Yeah I had figured this out and wondered if it was a bug. The way I explained it in the past is that if you're not advancing the story, then you're not advancing your training, Training Menu-wise. That's why you can't loop the 2nd or 5th day in the warehouse and pump up your throws each night. I might even have a thread around here about that.

According to the ancient wisdom of Gamefaqs, you CAN pump up your training by intentionally failing the Old Warehouse No. 8 QTE, where it jumps to the next day, by doing it a bunch of times (and choosing in advance what you want to train, the night before you go). I fully intend to test this on my next playthrough.

Also, you can actually see the difference the training menu makes, when it's working, by getting there early enough to be able to back out of the bedtime menu and look at your move scroll. You can train an individual arm/leg move, then exit out and look at your moves scroll. You can then decide on a different move or go back out and choose a different group, or All. The progress is only applied when you sleep, so that's why you can mess around with it all you want before bed.

I think I'm remembering all that right. It's only been like a week since I finished S1. LOL
 
Darkside_Hazuki said:
I'm late to the thread but I read up a bit. I got a discussion going about this on FAQs about a month ago:



TL;DR
Using the "Training" function at night was the key to getting your moves to properly progress, not going to Sleep. Throughout my testing Sleeping never affected my moves at all.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76925784

And yeah, the thing where your moves suddenly look Expert-level but you haven't trained them that high and then they revert back to normal is very weird.
I haven't had a lot of time to test things lately so I'm not sure if the last patch fixed any of this.

The only other useful info I have is regarding how "Training" works. Note that I tested this on the Dreamcast version:


TL;DR
I've heard several times that, in regards to which type of Training you have selected, Sleeping is when your moves will increase in strength but I myself have not experienced that. My moves have always increased when certain story-related events or key conversations occurred. One of them being at the beginning of the game when you first talk to Fuku in the dojo, and another is later when Tom gives you a lead to look for Chinese people.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76932736

I hope some of this helps out.
Click to expand...
Nice, it's hard to tell in the HD since we don't have the light blue bar indicating what training EXP we have gathered, we just have to eye the jumps.

When I did a test I made a save before sleep checked my levels the next morning and they had gone up.
Reloaded the save and slept and noticed the progress hadn't updated. Though if you are saying changing the training to hand/legs/throws is what makes it update I might have skipped that on the reload. So it would need to be tested.
Darkside_Hazuki said:
And yeah, the thing where your moves suddenly look Expert-level but you haven't trained them that high and then they revert back to normal is very weird.
I haven't had a lot of time to test things lately so I'm not sure if the last patch fixed any of this.
Click to expand...
I've tested this on the latest ps4 patch and the moves still do it while training.
 
Darkside_Hazuki said:
TL;DR
I've heard several times that, in regards to which type of Training you have selected, Sleeping is when your moves will increase in strength but I myself have not experienced that. My moves have always increased when certain story-related events or key conversations occurred. One of them being at the beginning of the game when you first talk to Fuku in the dojo, and another is later when Tom gives you a lead to look for Chinese people.
Source: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/237007-shenmue-i-and-ii/76932736

I hope some of this helps out.
Click to expand...

It sounds like there's an increase whenever there's a change in game state, in which case I can give a fairly comprehensive list:
1. Waking up on 3rd December
2. Talk to Fuku in the dojo
3. Talk to Yamagishi (after finding out he was injured)
4. Talk to Tom (after finding out he had words with the men in the car)
5. Talk to any of the Three Blades (after talking to Tao)
6. Talk to Liu
7. Talk to Liu Sr
8. Sink the pool shot in MJQ
9. Visit Heartbeats Bar
10. Find out about Nagai Industries
11. Talk to Nagai
12. Fight night in the parking lot
13. Find out about Okayama Heights
14. Visit Tattoo Parlor
15. Receive Letter to Father
16. Fight in the construction area
17. Find out about Wang
18. Find out about Russiya China Shop
19. Get the letter translated
20. Phone the number
21. Find out about Amihama
22. Visit New Yokosuka Harbor
23. Enter Warehouse No. 8
24. Find out about the Old Warehouse District
25. Try to enter the Old Warehouse District
26. Help Hisaka look for Mai
27. Help Hisaka deliver food to the Old Warehouse District
28. Meet Chen
29. Find out about the antique shop
30. Get Sword Handguard
31. Enter Basement
32. Get Phoenix Mirror
33. Get money out of bank
34. "Idiot!"
35. "39,634 Yen"
36. Find out about boat tickets
37. Buy boat ticket
38. Collect boat ticket
39. Get phone call from Jimmy
40. Fight in Game YOU
41. Visit Asia Travel Co.
42. Ask Goro about a job
43. Meet Goro
44. Forklift training
45. Fight in Warehouse No. 3
46. Save Mark near Warehouse No. 17
47. Fight Charlie
48. QTE in Warehouse No. 1
49. Find out about Terry
50. "Terry's waiting!"
51. Find out about a motorcycle
52. "Stay with meeeeeeeeeeeeheeeeeehee!"
53. 70 man battle
54. Complete the game

So these are most (if not all) of the things that will change the game state - doing any of these things change NPC dialogue, and given that the two you've mentioned line up with two of these, it probably uses the same events for both.
 
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