PC Gamer Interview with D3T about bringing Shenmue 1 & 2 to PC/back to life.

[Kodama]

I don't do PM debates, especially with mods. I much prefer public discourse where history can be recorded. Please move this response to whatever the appropriate social topic for it is... and if you can't find one just delete it and drop the subject entirely...

And my response was all of those things.

It really wasn't, at all. You were pushing a narrative and upset that mine clashed with yours. You did nothing to respond to my question but instead attacked my character.

I'm pretty sure challenging baseless speculation/borderline conspiracy theories is level headed.

If that's what you were actually doing I'd agree. But instead what you did was accuse me of being a manipulative troll intent on stirring up hatred for these ports. You didn't actually challenge my questioning at the technical level at all, you went straight for the personal attack. Also, it wasn't baseless, as I explained my reasoning for thinking as much right in the post. And as it turns out, I was at least partially right so... not even sure what you're on about here...

That kind of stuff doesn't have a place on this forum.

I've come to learn the hard way that valid criticism and questioning are not welcome here sometimes. Quite the shame as it's a real disservice to the fans who are so passionate about these games and would like to talk about them honestly. Way too often here people with criticisms are labeled as trolls/immature/moaners/etc with no other mods standing up against that kind of nonsense. But if you criticize the game too harshly the mods have no problem stepping right in and shutting people down. It's not level headed or objective at all...

We allowed speculation on stuff like the Dark1X tweets because they actually had a reputable backing, however your post had no such thing.

My speculation was based on experience, confirmed by other users with similar experiences, and since proven at least partially true. Also it's not like the post was deleted so it too was allowed. You just berated me for it in a very uncalled for manner. No other mods mentioned anything about it, and no apology has since been given since, you're only doubling down on the rhetoric.

I'd prefer it if you'd just not succumb to personal attacks just because you don't like what I am saying, that it goes against your narrative that SEGA and D3T can do no wrong or whatever it is. If we disagree, we can discuss it like adults. If you feel what I'm saying is so wrong that nobody should read it, then delete it and move on. No reason to try and vilify people and do some trolling yourself when that's exactly what you're here to stop...

 

[Jibby]

I don't do PM debates, especially with mods. I much prefer public discourse where history can be recorded. Please move this response to whatever the appropriate social topic for it is... and if you can't find one just delete it and drop the subject entirely...

You not doing PM debates isn't my problem. You said it yourself that this discussion was off topic, so I don't get why you're still posting about it here. Telling me that I can delete the post isn't an excuse to break the rules. I'll hear no more of this discussion beyond this post unless you want PM me and continue there.

IYou did nothing to respond to my question but instead attacked my character.

accuse me of being a manipulative troll

You just berated me for it in a very uncalled for manner.

no apology has since been given since

I'd prefer it if you'd just not succumb to personal attacks

Honestly, I've never been as baffled browsing this site than I am now. You are so hung up on the idea that I've personally attacked you in some way when in reality all I've ever done is challenge and criticise certain points you've made. Disagreement and critique =/= personal attack. If you're going to voice an opinion online, you need to be prepared for the possibility of someone challenging it. You've sent heated messages my way too, but you don't see me asking for an apology.

 

[pilman]

I thought Yu is using OG assets as reference points and unreleased assets from S1 & S2 to help with development of S3??? How did Sega turn that stuff over to Ysnet for S3 if they lost em all? Or maybe I'm missing something here? Are we talking portions or Wholesale?

Assets are different than the source code. I think they were referring to textures models music scripts.

 

[B-Man]

Assets are different than the source code. I think they were referring to textures models music scripts.

This. Sega still has artwork, music, textures, models, etc. No original source code is being used for Shenmue 3. It's using Unreal Engine 4.

 

[Superrayman3]

D3T obviously tried their best but they were simply unqualified for the job. They literally couldn't even read the source code comments or any of Shenmue I's game logic. They also seemed to have quite a bit of trouble grasping the way the Dreamcast hardware worked. And it sounds like Sega offered no support for any of this. Just threw an enormous archive of data at them and told them to get to work.

That's the exact same kind of vibe I'm getting from that article and if that's actually true than SEGA is more to blame than d3t (whom I don't blame for any of this mess although those party posts they show do bug me a little bit given the current situation, SEGA made the decision to release the game as is and they alone are the ones who should be held accountable for it especially if they offered ZERO assistance with this project whatsoever, we don't know whether that's actually the case or not so take that bit as speculation at best).

 

[B-Man]

That's the exact same kind of vibe I'm getting from that article and if that's actually true than SEGA is more to blame than d3t (whom I don't blame for any of this mess although those party posts they show do bug me a little bit given the current situation, SEGA made the decision to release the game as is and they alone are the ones who should be held accountable for it especially if they offered ZERO assistance with this project whatsoever, we don't know whether that's actually the case or not so take that bit as speculation at best).

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. It sounds like it's Sega's fault, but D3T also shouldn't be publicly partying about it.

 

[orient]

I posted this on Resetera, but I think the translation stuff is being given a bit too much weight -- sometimes comments written in English make no sense. The real problem stems from not having access to the people who programmed the original game, and that isn't as simple as "just call Yu Suzuki or another planner/director on the game". No single person understands the entirety of a game's code that originally required 200+ people to develop, especially one as complex as Shenmue. Even if you decide to hunt certain programmers down, who's to guarantee they A) still work at SEGA or even the games industry B) are actually available to/want to help C) even remember what they wrote 20 years ago. I read an article in which Yu Suzuki couldn't even remember the Saturn version of Shenmue.

My takeaway was: holy shit, they made this port with a team of 10 people? Respect to d3t.

*edit* Also, the sound stuff doesn't apply to Shenmue II, where most of the audio issues are -- but the fact that they've been able to significantly improve the audio once on PC leads me to believe they can keep improving it, as long as development/patches continue.

 

[ys.]

lol, crazy to think that when I brought that up I was accused of making "misguided conspiracy theories about it being emulation for the sole purpose of artificially manufacturing more outrage"... and by a mod of all people...
But it's cool we got a bit of confirmation on that front. Here's hoping D3T keeps working and making this better. After reading this interview they seem to be more capable than I thought, and are just pressed for resources by the publisher...

I also got that impression.

I do find it unbelievable that SEGA couldn't get them ONE bilingual support person at least. I've hand translated stuff extensively, not knowing Japanese, with web tools (not Google Translate), and it's brutal. I can't even imagine.

It's crazy if they had to work like that. A contact person from the original team would have been helpful.

Also as a sidenote, there is zero confirmation of emulation in the article.

Not to keep going on about emulation or not but he seemed to say that some Dreamcast hardware features were difficult to emulate. That does sound like emulation to me? Which was also what I suspected earlier. Since the DC had specific audio hardware not found on current platforms they would likely need to emulate something. Not that it bothers me since there was no other option.

It's incredible that a company the size of Sega were so bad at archiving this stuff. Didn't they lose the source code for Panzer Dragon Saga in its entirety?

Yes, I also read that. It reminded me of this : http://www.original-gamer.com/article/4795-GTA-master-audio-tapes-almost-lost-in-Superstorm-Sandy

 

[xatruio]

Genuine answer: Because qualifications for moderators usually require one to be level headed, objective, and not prone to making inflammatory posts. Trying to paint me as a manipulative villain simply for daring to criticize(or in this case, just question...correctly) our favorite game isn't something we expect our mods to do...

4am post redacted.

Beer is a helluva drug.

My apologies.

 

[Kodama]

you have already been banned twice

False.

 

[spud1897]

Back on topic please. And for the record it's once

 

[Mittens2317]

@Peter: Is this what our little squabbles looked like? ?

On topic though, I don't think you can blame d3t for how broken these games allegedly are. Porting's very different from developing games from scratch, and as previously mentioned they're even more so at the mercy of the publisher than other games would be.

People are obviously gonna be passionate about it - and are entitled to be - but there comes a point, much like the S3 models and logo, where you just have to accept it and either wait patiently on the patches or support the modders in some way.

Having said that, I haven't played em yet, so you can expect my angry criticism in about ten months from now.

 

[Peter]

@Peter: Is this what our little squabbles looked like?

Nah, we had a bitta craic and respect at the same time. That's a dead art now. These kids will never understand.

But as said numerous times, the topic is back on track regarding the d3t interview. Keep it that way from now on please.

 

[xatruio]

So, in addition to strategic release date for lesser market competition, Sega also probably wanted the project to finally be out to the public after 3+ years of development. I remember during my long hiatus from the old Dojo, hearing about the rumours (before the Sega Europe twitter teases), but assumed they weren't involving D3T, yet.

False.

 

[spud1897]

@xatruio on topic please. Consider this a verbal.

 

[staplepuffs27]

I've defended a lot of what d3t has done here. But in regards to translation stuff, did they bite off more than they could chew? Sega is the client here, paying d3t for a service. Presumably, d3t said something like, "Sure, we can handle it no problem!" If they didn't have the resources to properly read the Japanese files, that's kind of on them. They could have put out a job posting for someone who knew Japanese, because they put up job postings on LinkedIn all the time. It's clearly within their budget.

I could very well be wrong. Just something that's been bouncing around my head. Still, major respect to them for pulling this off with such a small team.

 

[ys.]

Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but couldn't dt3 have recorded the original music straight from a Dreamcast/Xbox as mp3's and used these mp3's in the HD version instead of what they actually attempted?

That would have been possible but it seems that they tried to stay as close to the original games as possible. This approach also kept the game size down which might have influenced the decision? It's impressive that they tried this since it's a lot of work but the disadvantage is that they might not get it totally right.