Potential Shenmue 3 Retcons?

At the end of S3 they are literally on their way to the cliff temple. They know where it is because of the "map" that they have which only shows Niaowu (for some completely unknown reason) and the cliff temple, so where would they be going in between that? Furthermore, every time Ryo sets off for a new location (Hong Kong, Kowloon, Guilin, Bailu Village, and Niaowu), he arrives there in basically the very next scene, so why would this be any different? Also, how do we know there are warring factions? Niao Sun seems pretty confident that she's the new "leader" and everyone in the castle seemed pretty cool with burning Lan Di alive. Don't get me wrong, that's where I assumed the plot was heading as well and something that should definitely have been set up in S3 instead of playing Lan Di's bodyguards for jokes.

The great wall of china is pretty big. The "map" they have is just a drawing. There's all sorts of settlements and towns, encounters etc. that could be on the way. Why would they just teleport to the location that literally all the main characters are on course for a climactic showdown at, at the very start of the game? That would be so bizarre.

I took the ending to be setting up Lan Di vs. Niao Sun, one has the dragon mirror, the other the phoenix, and there now being a clear power struggle in the Chi You Men.

Why? Was it bizarre for Ryo to end up in Guilin when he said he was going to Guilin?

You mean how he said he was headed to Bailu village, left Kowloon, got on a boat, arrived in Langhuishan, asked around for directions to Bailu, met Shenhua and then spent 2 days traversing mountains to get to Bailu? Yeah, if Ryo had said "I'm heading to Bailu," and then teleported to Bailu village, it would have been weird as fuck.


Presumably because whatever happens at the cliff temple will reveal something cool and heretofore unknowable about the mirrors, the treasure, the Chi You Men, Shenhua, or any of the other mysteries that will raise the stakes and alter the trajectory of Ryo's journey in some meaningful way (and why it should DEFINITELY have been where S3 ended). If it's literally just map room-treasure and some Ziming and Sunming sprinkles, I don't see how that's 60% of the story.

I don't think Yu Suzuki is in any rush to reveal the secrets of the mirrors. How you can simultaneously complain about how little story is in Shenmue III, and also expect Yu to zip us immediately to these enormous plot reveals is really puzzling to me. He's clearly setting a slow pace, why would you expect him to suddenly shift gears and go 100mph? Even Shenmue II, which is a lot more fast-paced than Shenmue and Shenmue III, starts off pretty slowly. It'd be like if Shenmue II teleported us to Lishao Tao at the start or something, it'd be so weird and jarring.

I would say the fact that they don't show it is less important than the fact that they don't address it, and the fact that nothing "magical" really happens in S3. I mean, Ryo talks to Shenhua about her "powers" but that's basically it. If I saw a sword float in the air and deflect a laser beam, I'd certainly have some questions for the person who built that. The person that we spend the whole game looking for. We literally learn more about the mirrors from Master Chen and Yuanda Zhu than from the person who has the blueprints in his house and is the direct descendant of the man who built them! This is what leads me to believe that what we know about the mirrors is essentially it; they're a map, which is fine but not exactly something we needed to go all the way to Guilin to have confirmed for us.

I mean again, the sword is pretty clearly not retconned (beyond appearence) as Shenhua has it. The mirror still shot out a laser beam that set the rope on fire. Shenhua can talk to animals and does some crazy mind-torture shit on Yanglang. There absolutely is still the element of magic and mystery.

We don't know what the mirrors are for, and again, I don't think Yu's keen to let us know any time soon. I don't think they're just a map to treasure. Maybe we'll find that out in Shenmue IV, maybe we won't. I guess I'm just not dying to know the answers to these questions as you seem to be. I'm for sure in it for the long haul, and wouldn't mind as many games as Yu needs.
 
Why would they just teleport to the location that literally all the main characters are on course for a climactic showdown at, at the very start of the game?
Because then something fucking interesting would happen? Besides, I mean, they "teleported" to the great wall...

there now being a clear power struggle in the Chi You Men.
Under absolutely no circumstances is that clear.

You mean how he said he was headed to Bailu village, left Kowloon, got on a boat, arrived in Langhuishan, asked around for directions to Bailu, met Shenhua and then spent 2 days traversing mountains to get to Bailu? Yeah, if Ryo had said "I'm heading to Bailu," and then teleported to Bailu village, it would have been weird as fuck.
No I mean how Yuanda Zhu tells him to go to Guilin and then he goes to Guilin. It takes about 3 hours of play time to get from the docks to Bailu Village, which is perfectly reasonable for a super remote mountain town. Obviously they're not going to start right inside the cliff temple, but pretty close to it, the game implies that scroll is a "map" of some kind and they seem pretty sure of where they're going at the end. Also, I think the "cliff temple" is a known place, not literally an unknown temple on a cliff. Yuan seems to know where it is and that the Chi You Men are there.

(EDIT) Also, do you have any idea how far Guilin is from Hong Kong? There's definitely all kinds of stuff that could have happened along the way... but none of it pertains to the story so who gives a shit?

How you can simultaneously complain about how little story is in Shenmue III, and also expect Yu to zip us immediately to these enormous plot reveals is really puzzling to me.
Because Shenmue 3's story sucked and I would like Shenmue 4's story to not suck. If it does suck then I'm out.

Even Shenmue II, which is a lot more fast-paced than Shenmue and Shenmue III, starts off pretty slowly. It'd be like if Shenmue II teleported us to Lishao Tao at the start or something, it'd be so weird and jarring.
No, it'd be like if at the end of Shenmue 1 Master Chen gave Ryo a map and said follow this to Lishao Tao. You wouldn't expect Ryo to start Shenmue 2 blindly look for Lishao Tao in that case, would you? Also Shenmue 2 doesn't waste your time, most things in that game (even the boring bits) need to happen to either introduce important characters, develop Ryo, or set up plot points. You were given the goal of finding Lishao Tao, which you do within the first hour. Then you have to find Yuanda Zhu, which leads you to find the Wulinshu and Chawan signs and learn about Five Star. Once you find out he's in Kowloon, literally everything you do brings you closer to finding him and when you finally get to talk to him he reveals important plot information that you didn't already know. And then that's not even the end! Shenmue 3 isn't even close to this kind of storytelling. I spent 30 hours trying to find Yuan and I couldn't tell you the first thing about him beyond the fact that he's a stone cutter and Shenhua's surrogate father (which we also learned in S2).

We don't know what the mirrors are for, and again, I don't think Yu's keen to let us know any time soon. I don't think they're just a map to treasure. Maybe we'll find that out in Shenmue IV, maybe we won't.
I mean, if that's the case, I really don't see why this needed to be more than 3 games. Especially if S1 and 2 were originally 1 game. I personally believe that Shenmue is about far more than talking to random NPCs, fetch quests, and mini games, which is all S3 really amounted to. Like I said, if S4 is anything like S3 and we're talking about how Shenmue needs to be 6 or 7 games, I'm out.
 
Because then something fucking interesting would happen? Besides, I mean, they "teleported" to the great wall...

Plenty of interesting things can happen between the start of Shenmue IV and the climax. The great wall was clearly a location that was going to feature in Shenmue III, but was cut. Maybe it's been repurposed into a transition section a la the boat chapter? Who knows. Either way, there's no gameplay there.

We didn't teleport from Yokosuka to Hong Kong, Ryo got a boat. We didn't teleport from Hong Kong to Kowloon, Ryo got a bus. We didn't teleport from Kowloon to Guilin, Ryo got a boat. Shit, we didn't even teleport from Bailu to Niaowu, they once again travelled by boat! What makes you think Ryo's just going to teleport to the temple cliff, aside from you'd apparently like him to?

Under absolutely no circumstances is that clear.

Chinese cartel with multiple leaders. The leaders are now at odds. What else would you call it?

No I mean how Yuanda Zhu tells him to go to Guilin and then he goes to Guilin. It takes about 3 hours of play time to get from the docks to Bailu Village, which is perfectly reasonable for a super remote mountain town. Obviously they're not going to start right inside the cliff temple, but pretty close to it, the game implies that scroll is a "map" of some kind and they seem pretty sure of where they're going at the end. Also, I think the "cliff temple" is a known place, not literally an unknown temple on a cliff. Yuan seems to know where it is and that the Chi You Men are there.

Zhu tells Ryo to go to Bailu village specifically. He doesn't teleport to Bailu, because that would be fucking stupid. We travel there. Like we're going to travel to the temple in the cliffs. To me, that area is being set up as a climax, not an opening.

(EDIT) Also, do you have any idea how far Guilin is from Hong Kong? There's definitely all kinds of stuff that could have happened along the way... but none of it pertains to the story so who gives a shit?

Yeah, he took a boat down the river there. Not much to do on boat. There's plenty to come across traversing China on foot.

Because Shenmue 3's story sucked and I would like Shenmue 4's story to not suck. If it does suck then I'm out.

Hard disagree. Shenmue 3's story was great. Fair enough though, nobody's forcing you to play the games.

No, it'd be like if at the end of Shenmue 1 Master Chen gave Ryo a map and said follow this to Lishao Tao. You wouldn't expect Ryo to start Shenmue 2 blindly look for Lishao Tao in that case, would you? Also Shenmue 2 doesn't waste your time, most things in that game (even the boring bits) need to happen to either introduce important characters, develop Ryo, or set up plot points. You were given the goal of finding Lishao Tao, which you do within the first hour. Then you have to find Yuanda Zhu, which leads you to find the Wulinshu and Chawan signs and learn about Five Star. Once you find out he's in Kowloon, literally everything you do brings you closer to finding him and when you finally get to talk to him he reveals important plot information that you didn't already know. And then that's not even the end! Shenmue 3 isn't even close to this kind of storytelling. I spent 30 hours trying to find Yuan and I couldn't tell you the first thing about him beyond the fact that he's a stone cutter and Shenhua's surrogate father (which we also learned in S2).

Errrr, what? That is quite literally exactly what happens lol. Chen gives Ryo a letter of introduction with an address, literally does one better than a map, and Ryo starts looking for Lishao Tao in Hong Kong by asking directions. Again, even Shenmue II which is very fast-paced, starts of drearily slow. If the game just teleported you to Xuiying and started her introduction, that would have been fucking dumb. That's not how Yu makes games at all.

I mean, if that's the case, I really don't see why this needed to be more than 3 games. Especially if S1 and 2 were originally 1 game. I personally believe that Shenmue is about far more than talking to random NPCs, fetch quests, and mini games, which is all S3 really amounted to. Like I said, if S4 is anything like S3 and we're talking about how Shenmue needs to be 6 or 7 games, I'm out.

Yeah Shenmue definitely means different things to us then. Completely disagree. I'll play as many Shenmue games as Yu is able to make.
 
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Nothing will get in my way to Shenmue. Not even it's creator. I would play or see anything Shenmue related. But i strongly disagree about Shen3 story and especially, storytelling. Lacks badly. That's why the backlash, even from fans.
 
Chinese cartel with multiple leaders. The leaders are now at odds.
Citation needed. As far as we know Lan Di is the only leader, with him supposedly gone Niao Sun assumes the leadership role.

Zhu tells Ryo to go to Bailu village specifically. He doesn't teleport to Bailu, because that would be fucking stupid. We travel there. Like we're going to travel to the temple in the cliffs.
Dude, Bailu village is a mountain town... there is literally no way to get there except on foot. That's why. Also, you meet fucking Shenhua almost immediately, there are STORY reasons for it to happen. You don't just wander around for the fuck of it. Again, if there are (good) story reasons for Ryo to be in a place, I'm all for it, if not... SKIP!

To me, that area is being set up as a climax, not an opening.
If that's a climax, then at most that will cover 2 more concept drawings from VFRPG (simply based off the geography). How exactly is the 5th game (Suzuki's maximum number) going to ping pong around the remaining 4 concepts? Bearing in mind that according to these drawings, the most that any Shenmue game will have covered up to that point is 2 at a time.

There's plenty to come across traversing China on foot.
They're absolutely not running around China on foot, that's retarded. They're going to the cliff temple and they're presumably pretty close, or they obviously wouldn't be on foot. The great wall is huge.

Errrr, what? That is quite literally exactly what happens lol. Chen gives Ryo a letter of introduction with an address, literally does one better than a map, and Ryo starts looking for Lishao Tao in Hong Kong by asking directions.
You go directly to the address! Are you kidding me right now? The only thing that prevents you is your bag being stolen (in order to introduce us to Wong, Joy, and later Ren). Ryo asks for directions TO THE ADDRESS.

Again, even Shenmue II which is very fast-paced, starts of drearily slow.
Yea getting your bag stolen in a foreign country where you don't know anyone, losing all your money and the phoenix mirror was a real snooze fest. Didn't even have to play ONE game of hide and seek with children.

If the game just teleported you to Xuiying and started her introduction, that would have been fucking dumb.
I mean, literally no one is arguing for that.

That's not how Yu makes games at all.
Yu Suzuki made games about shooting dragons with lasers, what's your point?

Yeah Shenmue definitely means different things to us then. Completely disagree. I'll play as many Shenmue games as Yu is able to make.
He said he's gonna make 5 max and if you want to play them, you should be concerned that so many fans were put off by the one he just released because they might not be so forthcoming with their money next time. Does this seem like a happy dojo right now?
 
Here's an example.
"Ones need to becone stronger and go to somewhere far away to get lessons from a legendary master. This an all time kung fu movies cliche. Bloodsport has it. Kill Bill has it (with one legendary villain chinese master, Pai Mei.) Shenmue 1, has some random good support roles such as Yamaghishi-San, Wich teaches the Double blow to Ryo. Shenmue2 has, an amazing "learning kung fu" arch with the 4 wude, airing the books, learning about Wulinshu and Yuanda Zhu, learning moves from Han Hui and be given move scrolls, if you do succeed to air all the book on time. Buying booze and buns, catching chickens and doing the rooster step, is nothing compare to what i described. As flat as hell. All this "learning arch" could be done with master Feng. But we got nothing.
That's why Shenmue 3 is way way way behind the previous games. And please, Shenmue is a kung fu interactive movie, with odd game plays, bad voice over, bad writing and even so, exales heart and martial arts philosophy. Aside some mentions of the Mr muscles Chinese style, we got nothing. Some may love Shenmue due the game play, some may go for the free battle. But, the best part of Shenmue, is his mistic kung fu tale. At least, until Shenmue 3.
 
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Citation needed. As far as we know Lan Di is the only leader, with him supposedly gone Niao Sun assumes the leadership role.


There's always been four leaders, and Tentei. Niao Sun and Lan Di are vying for control, as per Shenmue III.

Dude, Bailu village is a mountain town... there is literally no way to get there except on foot. That's why. Also, you meet fucking Shenhua almost immediately, there are STORY reasons for it to happen. You don't just wander around for the fuck of it. Again, if there are (good) story reasons for Ryo to be in a place, I'm all for it, if not... SKIP!

Yeah, I dunno why you're assuming there's no good story reasons to travel to the temple cliff, and just teleport there. We're 40% of the way through the story. There is plenty left to tell, and about half a dozen locations to visit. X'ian, Luoyang, Mengcun, etc. etc. Even if these places are chopped up and re-arranged a la Shenmue II, there's still so much to work with. We're really in no hurry.

If that's a climax, then at most that will cover 2 more concept drawings from VFRPG (simply based off the geography). How exactly is the 5th game (Suzuki's maximum number) going to ping pong around the remaining 4 concepts? Bearing in mind that according to these drawings, the most that any Shenmue game will have covered up to that point is 2 at a time.

As I said, Shenmue II condensed parts of the story from chapters 2, 3, 4 5 and 6 from that board. There's so much material there to work with, I have no doubt things will be cut up, re-arranged, dropped, changed etc. but the skeleton of that story, and the overall arc of Ryo's journey will see us traverse these regions.

Yu has always fairly recently spoken of his desire to make 6 Shenmue games, so he's obviously thinking he has a lot to work with.

They're absolutely not running around China on foot, that's retarded. They're going to the cliff temple and they're presumably pretty close, or they obviously wouldn't be on foot. The great wall is huge.

These are just assumptions on your part, and baseless opinion. I could absolutely see Shenmue IV picking up with Ryo, Shenhua and Ren walking along the great wall, encountering problems, Chi You Men, Chai etc. and get dragged into towns and villages on the way. Even if it is a short walk to the cliff temple, whose to say it's going to just be a straight shot into the temple and instant story revelations? There is no rush whatsoever, and you're letting what you want to happen cloud your vision and see that as the only option, otherwise you're ragequitting Shenmue forever or whatever.

You go directly to the address! Are you kidding me right now? The only thing that prevents you is your bag being stolen (in order to introduce us to Wong, Joy, and later Ren). Ryo asks for directions TO THE ADDRESS.

Yeah, you seek out directions and clues, and find your way there. You're not just fucking teleported there. If we pick up the game where Shenmue III left off, and we're going around showing people the map to the cliffside temple, asking for clues etc. that's exactly what I'd expect. Could you not forsee Ryo and co. getting side-tracked, needing to travel through other settlements, villages, towns, cities etc. on the way? Or do you think the great wall of china is the yellow brick road that leads directly to the temple?

Yea getting your bag stolen in a foreign country where you don't know anyone, losing all your money and the phoenix mirror was a real snooze fest. Didn't even have to play ONE game of hide and seek with children.

But if this happened in Shenmue III you'd be saying "oh this is pointlessly delaying us from being teleported to fight Lan Di. Shit game." Even when you find Wong, great, he gives you directions to a fucking hotel lmao. Wow, such action. Or how about feeding a fucking cat in the first one. We're in Bailu village, and you expect break-neck action? Come on man, you're arguing nonsense for the sake of it now.

I mean, literally no one is arguing for that.

You're saying we should arrive at the temple in the cliffs ASAP and find out what the mirrors do. I'm comparing that to just skipping all of the build up in Shenmue II and starting at the first meeting with Lishao Tao. If you agree that that would be fucking stupid, cool, we're on the same page.

Yu Suzuki made games about shooting dragons with lasers, what's your point?

Yeah his games are dope. I don't know why you're expecting him to suddenly do a 180 and make Shenmue in a way he never has before, with us teleporting from plot point to plot point to wrap up the story as fast as possible, just because you want to find out what the mirrors do.


He said he's gonna make 5 max and if you want to play them, you should be concerned that so many fans were put off by the one he just released because they might not be so forthcoming with their money next time. Does this seem like a happy dojo right now?

He's said 6 actually. Either way, whether it's 5 or 6, if he fits his ideas and vision into them, that's fine by me. And I really don't care about anyone who was put off by Shenmue III. I personally loved it. If it doesn't sell well enough for a Shenmue IV to be made, c'est la vie. I have always maintained that I'll take 40% of the story Yu wants to tell over 100% of anything else. I'm just not attached to the idea of the saga needing to be finished.
 
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Yeah, you dislike the story of the game. You made an account 6 days ago to continuously state this in every single thread, over and over again. I get it man, it's not for you. Nobody's forcing you to play it or enjoy it. I thought it was awesome, never once felt like it was wasting my time. Sucks for you, but not everybody feels that way
I've seen you say 6 games a few times but not sure where your source is for that. I've always heard 4 or 5 games, though admittedly Suzuki has only talked about how many games he would after Shenmue 3 got green lit.
 
I've seen you say 6 games a few times but not sure where your source is for that. I've always heard 4 or 5 games, though admittedly Suzuki has only talked about how many games he would after Shenmue 3 got green lit.

I think it was this past summer, Yu was quoted in an article saying as much and it did the rounds here with lots of people ridiculing him, being shocked etc. I've been googling it but with Shenmue III dropping it's just too buried atm. I'll keep trying to dig for it, it's posted on these forums somewhere.
 
There's always been four leaders, and Tentei. Niao Sun and Lan Di are vying for control, as per Shenmue III.
There is zero mention of any of this in any of the Shenmue games. They exist as much as the "master tactician" or "Baisha village" exist; concepts that for whatever reason may come up in later games or may have been scrapped. In fact, Lan Di is actually mentioned as the leader of the Chi You Men specifically in S1 and S3. I like the idea of the four leaders stuff, it would've been awesome in S3 but alas...

Yeah, I dunno why you're assuming there's no good story reasons to travel to the temple cliff, and just teleport there. We're 40% of the way through the story. There is plenty left to tell, and about half a dozen locations to visit. X'ian, Luoyang, Mengcun, etc. etc. Even if these places are chopped up and re-arranged a la Shenmue II, there's still so much to work with. We're really in no hurry.
Because I played Shenmue 3 and have no desire to have my time wasted like that ever again. If there were good story reasons to travel to the temple cliff, then they were in S3. And there were, Niao Sun and Lan Di have the mirrors, and the Chi You Men are already at the cliff temple so there's real story momentum; perfect time for Ryo and the gang to take their time with a nice hike and ask for directions. I don't see why you think Shenmue = moving at a snail's pace, have you seen the Project Berkley video? Not one drawer was opened.

Yu has always fairly recently spoken of his desire to make 6 Shenmue games, so he's obviously thinking he has a lot to work with.
Again, he's most recently stated he wants to complete it in 4-5 and judging from the paltry story in S3 he doesn't have a ton to work with or he would presumably have put more in that game.

Even if it is a short walk to the cliff temple, whose to say it's going to just be a straight shot into the temple and instant story revelations? There is no rush whatsoever, and you're letting what you want to happen cloud your vision and see that as the only option, otherwise you're ragequitting Shenmue forever or whatever.
Like I said, it doesn't need to be a straight shot. I could easily see them having to do a few things before entering the temple (related, natch) but the revelations of the temple need to be a springboard, not an excuse to end on another obnoxious cliffhanger. The story needs to DEVELOP, can't be using the excuse that there's infinite time for sequels forever. I won't be ragequitting, I just won't have my time wasted again. Like I said, he's already got my money for S4, I will definitely beat it, but if it's anything like 3, then I have no desire to continue past that point. Beating S3 was legitimately painful at times.

Could you not forsee Ryo and co. getting side-tracked, needing to travel through other settlements, villages, towns, cities etc. on the way? Or do you think the great wall of china is the yellow brick road that leads directly to the temple?
No I think they left off with them almost at the temple the same way S2 left off with us almost at Bailu village.

But if this happened in Shenmue III you'd be saying "oh this is pointlessly delaying us from being teleported to fight Lan Di. Shit game."
If anything half as interesting as Ryo's bag getting stolen, immediately setting the tone, or a character half as memorable as Wong was in S3, I can assure you I would not be calling it a shit game. It's a shit game largely because it lacks those things.

We're in Bailu village, and you expect break-neck action?
No, I think I've made it pretty clear that I was expecting some story development and martial arts training. Was I expecting 10 hours of nonsense fetch quests and grinding? No. Shenmue isn't about action, it's about story. Even Guilin, by far the most "boring part of S1 and 2, ends with so many crazy plot revelations (Shenmue tree, mirror blueprints, missing father, magic sword, crazy quarry stuff) that S3 felt like it should have been a layup.

I'm comparing that to just skipping all of the build up in Shenmue II and starting at the first meeting with Lishao Tao.
Here: if entering the cliff temple is paced out the same way as finding Lishao Tao, and ther's as much game left after it, I'm all for it. That sounds great. Shenmue 2 is a masterpiece and what I consider the blueprint for the series. It's a shame that reviewers took a look at the HD re-release as an opportunity to shit on the first game's faults and completely ignore the sequel imo.

I don't know why you're expecting him to suddenly do a 180 and make Shenmue in a way he never has before, with us teleporting from plot point to plot point to wrap up the story as fast as possible, just because you want to find out what the mirrors do.
Again, I never said that. I wouldn't change any part of Shenmue 2 (except maybe the plank QTEs and even that provides the set up for an excellent joke and character moment) and if S3 was in any way like it, I wouldn't think it was so bad.

He's said 6 actually. Either way, whether it's 5 or 6
He's said 4 or 5.

I'm just not attached to the idea of the saga needing to be finished.
Suzuki certainly seems to be and many of the fans who made S3 possible seem to be, so it's in their interest that the story should be weighted more heavily. Every review I've read has mentioned it. If he's going to continue making these games then he's going to have to address the criticism. If you don't care, good for you.
 
There is zero mention of any of this in any of the Shenmue games. They exist as much as the "master tactician" or "Baisha village" exist; concepts that for whatever reason may come up in later games or may have been scrapped or canned. In fact, Lan Di is actually mentioned as the leader of the Chi You Men specifically in S1 and S3. I like the idea of the four leaders stuff, it would've been awesome in S3 but alas...

There are four leaders though. No reason to assume they've been cut.

Because I played Shenmue 3 and have no desire to have my time wasted like that ever again. If there were good story reasons to travel to the temple cliff, then they were in S3. And there were, Niao Sun and Lan Di have the mirrors, and the Chi You Men are already at the cliff temple so there's real story momentum; perfect time for Ryo and the gang to take their time with a nice hike and ask for directions. I don't see why you think Shenmue = moving at a snail's pace, have you seen the Project Berkley video? Not one drawer was opened.

Cool, nobody's forcing you to waste your time mate. It's okay for you to choose not to play a computer game. You're not going to be arrested for it. There's plenty of reason for the journey to include the travel to the temple, but if you're too blinded by rage and disappointment to see reason, nothing I can do about that.

Shenmue has always been a slow-paced game. I have no idea how you've come to think otherwise tbh. Even Shenmue II is very calm and languid, with short little bursts of action.

Again, he's most recently stated he wants to complete it in 4-5 and judging from the paltry story in S3 he doesn't have a ton to work with or he would presumably have put more in that game.

No, he said 4-5 games in 2015. This year he has said 6 games. He has plenty to work with, again, go watch the postmortem and look at the story materials.

Like I said, it doesn't need to be a straight shot. I could easily see them having to do a few things before entering the temple (related, natch) but the revelations of the temple need to be a springboard, not an excuse to end on another obnoxious cliffhanger. The story needs to DEVELOP, can't be using the excuse that there's infinite time for sequels forever. I won't be ragequitting, I just won't have my time wasted again. Like I said, he's already got my money for S4, I will definitely beat it, but if it's anything like 3, then I have no desire to continue past that point. Beating S3 was legitimately painful at times.

But you said you wanted us to just teleport there earlier. So you agree that would be stupid, now? And again, nobody is forcing you to play the games, or continue. You're perfectly okay to not enjoy them and not play them. Not sure why you keep reiterating that as if you're being made to play and enjoy Shenmue lmao.

No I think they left off with them almost at the temple the same way S2 left off with us almost at Bailu village.

So they're just trekking around the great wall for fun? Does it lead to the temple like the yellow brick road? What makes you think the temple is right round the corner? You're immediately setting yourself up for disappointment again.


If anything half as interesting as Ryo's bag getting stolen, immediately setting the tone, or a character half as memorable as Wong was in S3, I can assure you I would not be calling it a shit game. It's a shit game largely because it lacks those things.

Agree to disagree. I found Shenhua a much more interesting character than Wong, and I love Wong. Not everything needs to be "characters do a thing, run, chase, fight, baddies" to be interesting. I have no idea what you expected of Bailu village. How could you possibly be shocked at what we got? You played the demo a few months ago right?


No, I think I've made it pretty clear that I was expecting some story development and martial arts training. Was I expecting 10 hours of nonsense fetch quests and grinding? No. Shenmue isn't about action, it's about story. Even Guilin, by far the most "boring part of S1 and 2, ends with so many crazy plot revelations (Shenmue tree, mirror blueprints, missing father, magic sword, crazy quarry stuff) that S3 felt like it should have been a layup.

You mean like the story development and martial arts training we got from Grandmaster Feng and Master Su, about 30 minutes into the game? We got plenty, you're just blinded by rage and disappointment. I feel bad for you.

Here: if entering the cliff temple is paced out the same way as finding Lishao Tao, and ther's as much game left after it, I'm all for it. That sounds great. Shenmue 2 is a masterpiece and what I consider the blueprint for the series. It's a shame that reviewers took a look at the HD re-release as an opportunity to shit on the first game's faults and completely ignore the sequel imo.

So you agree that teleporting us to the temple and starting the game there would be fucking dumb? Cool. Agreed! Personally I think the original Shenmue blows number II out of the water, but each to their own.

Again, I never said that. I wouldn't change any part of Shenmue 2 (except maybe the plank QTEs and even that provides the set up for an excellent joke and character moment) and if S3 was in any way like it, I wouldn't think it was so bad.

You said you wanted us to teleport to the temple at the start of the game. That's not how Yu makes games, especially Shenmue.

He's said 4 or 5.

4 years ago. More recently he has said 6.

Suzuki certainly seems to be and many of the fans who made S3 possible seem to be, so it's in their interest that the story should be weighted more heavily. Every review I've read has mentioned it. If he's going to continue making these games then he's going to have to address the criticism. If you don't care, good for you.

Both the fans and Yu have waited 18 years for number 3, we'll wait as long as is necessary. If it doesn't come, oh well. You've already said you're peacing out if Shenmue IV isn't to your liking, so it's not really your concern either.
 
There are four leaders though. No reason to assume they've been cut.

Niao Sun: Lan Di, that fool! The Chi You Men belong to me, now! Hahaha!

Does that sound like there are 2 other bosses she's worried about? The "master tactician" was cut from the game, there's pretty decent reason to assume that might've been it for the Chi You Men leaders.

Shenmue has always been a slow-paced game. I have no idea how you've come to think otherwise tbh. Even Shenmue II is very calm and languid, with short little bursts of action.
Slow paced =/= boring.

No, he said 4-5 games in 2015. This year he has said 6 games.
Where? And if he changed his mind, maybe he should've put what now requires there to be game 6 into game 3.

So they're just trekking around the great wall for fun? Does it lead to the temple like the yellow brick road? What makes you think the temple is right round the corner?
I mean, if I'm honest I thought it was a completely ridiculous scene from top to bottom. Felt shoehorned because they showed the great wall before and had the environment set up.

Agree to disagree. I found Shenhua a much more interesting character than Wong, and I love Wong.
Agreed. Awesome character from the second game.

Not everything needs to be "characters do a thing, run, chase, fight, baddies" to be interesting.
Never said it did.

You mean like the story development and martial arts training we got from Grandmaster Feng and Master Su, about 30 minutes into the game?
Yea I can tell by all the Shenmue fans talking about how much story development was in this game. These forums are full of theories based on all the information we got.

We got plenty, you're just blinded by rage and disappointment.
Well you're just blinded by fanboyism and nostalgia so there!

But you said you wanted us to just teleport there earlier.
No I super didn't.

Personally I think the original Shenmue blows number II out of the water
Explains quite a lot.
 
I think it was this past summer, Yu was quoted in an article saying as much and it did the rounds here with lots of people ridiculing him, being shocked etc. I've been googling it but with Shenmue III dropping it's just too buried atm. I'll keep trying to dig for it, it's posted on these forums somewhere
I've been looking as well but I can't find it. I did find this interview from 2016 that confirms the contrary however.

If he did change his mind and say that he wants to do it in 6 games that's a bad sign. It means that he is struggling with scope creep in terms of the story, and based on Shenmue 1-3 it seems that's the case. As it stands I don't see why he would increase the number unless he had to cut out a lot from 3 last minute and now wants to try and include it in 4. Either way given how much filler was in Shenmue 3 I think Suzuki would need an editor to help with story bloat and stay focused on finishing in 1-2 more games (if fiscally feasible).

I'm curious if you find that source though.
 
Isn’t the scroll just describing the deadly move Lan Di used?
If you go through the internal animation names used in Shenmue I, it tells you what the move is. It was a long time ago when I checked this, but the animation names for showing both the stab armor and mysterious scrolls to Guizhang was something along the line of "translate_MOVENAME_scroll", in Japanese.
It's Akira Yuki's Moko Kohazan.
 
If you go through the internal animation names used in Shenmue I, it tells you what the move is. It was a long time ago when I checked this, but the animation names for showing both the stab armor and mysterious scrolls to Guizhang was something along the line of "translate_MOVENAME_scroll", in Japanese.
It's Akira Yuki's Moko Kohazan.

Well, guess that proves we'll learn it at some point.
 
Ok, so at the risk of drawing some serious flack, I feel the need to weigh in on the main story elements and plot advancement in Shenmue 3. I am not really going to talk about the game's self-contained story elements here, as it'll take way too long.

So first things first, I just want to point out something that no-one really remembers in regards to the first 2 games. We spend the bulk of Shenmue 2 searching for Yuanda Zuh and once we find him, he tells us about the Phoenix mirror the identity of Lan Di and the reason he killed Iwao. However, what a lot of people seem to forget is, that half of what Zuh tells us, we already find out in Shenmue 1. First off, Lan Di virtually tells us himself why he kill's Iwao, minus the part that he is Zhao Sunming's son. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it's about revenge. Secondly, Zuh tells us where the mirrors come from, but so does the owner of the antiques shop in Shenmue 1. The only difference is Zuh gives us the village name, not just the region; Guilin. Third; Zuh tells us what the mirrors do, yet so did Master Chen in Shenmue 1. The only difference is that they give very different accounts of what they do. What the reason for this is, we do not get know, however, I am beginning to suspect either a retcon or that Yu-san hoped we'd all forget what Chen said as it was too much info too soon. Regardless, the point I am making is that we really don't learn as much new info at the end of Shenmue 2 as a lot of people, myself included until I thought about it, as we think we do. While Zuh did tell us that Iwao and Zhao were friends, the most important thing we get from him his the next stop on our trip.

Now, onto Shenmue 3 and our first stop; Bailu. The point of travelling to Bailu village was to learn about the mirrors (at least from the players POV. Ryo went there because Zuh said Lan Di would be headed there). Which is exactly what we do. We discover when they were made (roughly 1910), who made them (Shenhua's great-great-grandfather), who commissioned them (the emperor) and why (to help hide he and his wife's treasures). However, this is perhaps all we can learn about them, because even though they were made in Bailu, the creator is long dead and his descendent has almost certainly never seen them. Not only that, but the location in which they were used is not Bailu AND we still lack the Dragon mirror.

The next point I want to raise is about Iwao. I know many people wanted to learn more about his past when we reached Bailu village; me being one of them. However, upon reflection, what could we really have learned that we did not already know? Iwao and Zhao trained in Bailu and that is all. Anything to do with the mirrors and Zhao's death did not happen there. In fact, the mirrors were not even in Bailu. The most that could have happened was that Zhao and Iwao found out about them there. Yes, we could have had more idle conversation with the few people that knew them, but the information given would probably have been of little consequence. However, this is one instance that I which will cite the budget as an issue. Yu-san could not afford excess dialogue, as voice acting in two languages is expensive, so if there were such scenes planned, I can understand why they were cut. Ultimately, there are far more important places on Iwao's trip, such as Mengcun, where we should find out far more about him. However, what we did get was a character assessment of Iwao from bid master, someone who knew him at the time. I think this is quite important as up until that point, I for one thought that Iwao killed Zhao. The letter he left for Ryo always suggested that to me. Only after talking to Feng, I'm on the fence.

So now we move on to Niaowu For me this is where we run into some problems. However, first things first and my apologies if someone has already clarified this, the reason we went to Niaowu is because it is recognised as being one of the markers on the map by Elder Yuh. These sort of maps work by showing landmarks, rather than giving directions. As Ryo and Shenhua do not know where Yuan has been taken, it is the only choice they have.

In terms of moving the main story forward, the game does make several mistakes here. However, the bulk of these are related to the rushed nature of the castle section. In that last section alone we met one of the other Chi You Men leaders, lost the Phoenix mirror to said leader, caught up with and faced off against Lan Di, witnessed a schism within the Chi You Men, learned a little bit more about Zhao's role in events and where to go next from Yuan. The problem for me is that all this happens within about five minutes. Properly spaced out over Baishi like it was probably supposed to be, then all these events would have the proper weight to them that they needed. Making it feel like a lot more had happened. Add to this the fact that the self-contained story of Niaowu felt like a repeat of Bailu's, then I fully understand why a lot of people didn't like this area and feel it did little to advance the main story.

I don't expect to change a lot of people's minds at this stage, if at all, as I can fully understand that some people still feel agrieved. However, I wanted to state my take on matters and ask everyone to do just one thing. Please can we all reserve final judgement until we at least get some sort of interviews with Yu-san that highlight some of our concerns with the game. If at that point some of you still feal that Yu-san screwed the series up beyond repair, then by all means walk away from the series with all the great memories of Shenmue 1&2 that you have. However, if he say's enough to convince you or, like me, you enjoyed Shenmue 3 regardless, then let us all look forward to Shenmue 4 together.
 
I still think III gave us some vital clues. For one, we now know that Lan Di's father wanted to protect the mirrors. He didn't want them for his own greed rather he wanted to protect them from unruly hands. We now have an inkling that the Chi You Men manipulated Lan Di for their own benefit. We now know that Niao Sun wants power over the Chi You Men.

But we didn't get anything new in III...nope, not a thing! We only got like three new vital plot points that could prove interesting going forward.

I think the thing about all of these games, and this is where I think the frustration comes from, is that we still haven't had one reliable source give us a proper answer. We've had a bunch of unreliable sources convey hearsay and conjecture, but no one solid reliable voice has actually provided us a true revelation...I mean we still don't even know if the mirrors hold the key to something mystical or just straight up treasure. Chen theorized it was something mystical. Yuanda Zhu told us it was treasure. The back story seems to suggest treasure...but could it all be a red herring?

I think by this point in the game, we expected a reliable source to fill in the burning questions...and outside of Yuan (and maybe Elder Yeh)...we didn't really get one...and even then, Yuan doesn't have all the answers.

But in terms of information? I feel like we got about as much as we got from Master Chen and Yuanda Zhu.

But we did get some vital clues moving forward. We're just still waiting for that one reliable source that can fill in the blanks and explain what the hell is happening here for real.
 
But we didn't get anything new in III...nope, not a thing! We only got like three new vital plot points that could prove interesting going forward.

Not to mention that those 3 plot points all came from just one character at the very end of the game.

We're just still waiting for that one reliable source that can fill in the blanks and explain what the hell is happening here for real.

Giving the way the story has unfolded so far, I actually doubt that we'll get one person with all the answers. It seems to me that the story is very much like a puzzle that we're collecting pieces of as we travel from place to place. The only person that might have all the answers is Tentei. However, that is assuming that the Chi You Men already know everything. However, while I have no proof as of yet, I suspect that there is a lot they don't know, hence why they keep popping up at the same places as Ryo does.
 
- Yuanda Zhu telling Ryo that Lan Di is Longsun Zhao (He is told twice in Shenmue 3 what Lan Di's name is and BOTH times he is surprised)

- Tentei (the Chi You Men true leader) is seemingly cut according to Niao Sun in the finale claiming the she is the new leader assuming Lan Di is killed in the fire. Could Ziming Hong be cut as well?

- Just all general mysticism the previous games held. Like you said, the mirrors simply lead to treasure, no flying sword and the Shenmue tree has no relevance..
I think he is still intended to be in the series as the white comma bead is still in key items. Unless he was cut at last minute and they never removed it
 
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