Shenmue 3 Sales

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's not true though. All the reasons you gave simply have no solid ground to stand on.

You need to relax. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you need to get angry and call it a joke. That just discourages any substantial discussion on the topic.
Once again, I literally used the exact same methodology that was used by Game Stat using a more reliable sample group. I took a known value from a sample group (18,000 out of 126,000,000) and applied the same ratio to the overall population.

Your suggestion that 70% of backers got their copies 5+ days late (and none of them talked about it here) and that the 18,000 people who bought the game in Japan (not to mention the rest of the physical and digital sales worldwide) bought the game but didn’t play it is what holds no ground, because that is what you’re suggesting if you think Game Stat’s Figures are accurate...
 
Once again, I literally used the exact same methodology that was used by Game Stat using a more reliable sample group. I took a known value from a sample group (18,000 out of 126,000,000) and applied the same ratio to the overall population.

Your suggestion that 70% of backers got their copies 5+ days late (and none of them talked about it here) and that the 18,000 people who bought the game in Japan (not to mention the rest of the physical and digital sales worldwide) bought the game but didn’t play it is what holds no ground, because that is what you’re suggesting if you think Game Stat’s Figures are accurate...
I never said any numbers though. I said that because of game stats calculations it makes more sense to assume most people got their copy later rather than sooner which is mostly the case with kickstarter rewards. Also since the game came out on a tuesday it isn't that ludicrous to assume they waited for the weekend to play their copy of the game. chill dude its just a game.
 
That's not true though. All the reasons you gave simply have no solid ground to stand on.

You need to relax. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you need to get angry and call it a joke. That just discourages any substantial discussion on the topic.
I feel like there's a massive misunderstanding here man, so I'd like to clarify that I'm not angry or attacking you or anything like that. I don't have any issue with you and have never had any issue with you in the past. My issue is only with the site, and Tomboz has perfectly given my rationale as to why.
 
I never said any numbers though. I said that because of game stats calculations it makes more sense to assume most people got their copy later rather than sooner which is mostly the case with kickstarter rewards. Also since the game came out on a tuesday it isn't that ludicrous to assume they waited for the weekend to play their copy of the game. chill dude its just a game.
You haven’t given any numbers, but by suggesting that the game stat figures are correct, those are the numbers you’re suggesting are accurate.

As I’ve pointed out multiple times, the exact same methodology can be used to make out like the game has sold 1m+ copies. There’s nothing to suggest that Game Stats numbers are anymore reliable, but I can say with some confidence that neither figure is accurate (and there in lies the fault with this type of sampling). If anything, the figures we have would suggest that the Game Stat number is actually less reliable.

I guess it’s tomato tomato. You think the game stat figures cast doubt on the figures we have whilst I think the figures we have cast doubt on the game stat figures. Just as you’ll say the figures we have cast doubt on the 1.1m figure I calculated, I think the 60k+ figure we have casts doubt on Game Stats number.
 
you dont know how Guiness works? As long as no one else contests your claim you're in.

Video game companies were not publicly divulging their game budgets in the 90's. It just wasnt normally done.
I think it's probably somewhere in the middle ground. I mean, I could claim I was the first human to arrive in space or that I have two spines, and I get a free world record? Cool.

Do I think SEGA's claim was met with Guinness doing years of more research on every other video game ever? No. But I think there is merit there, as they had to present documentation to get that record, and someone surely would have contradicted it by now had it been false. Without anything concrete, your claim lies in the trash heap along with most of the other expert speculation in this thread.

For all of you that claim everyone is a Shenmue apologist and wouldn't believe the game sold or reviewed badly, there are also those that would never believe any good news. I just was never aware we had so many experts on either side. Maybe look into getting into the marketing analysis business?
 
People need to stop pointing to digital sales. If it's 17th in uk physical charts, it's not going to be magically 2nd in digital charts.
you dont know how Guiness works? As long as no one else contests your claim you're in.

Video game companies were not publicly divulging their game budgets in the 90's. It just wasnt normally done.
That's not how it works at all.
It was for the first 5 days. It took me a week to get my backer copy.
You seriously waited for that? Mine rook two weeks, but I pre ordered the collectors edition of course.
 
851 of the 301,000 registered users at PSN Profiles own Shenmue 3. If the same proportion of the 94,000,000 active PSN users own the game, it works out at about 266,000 copies played (not accounting for people who bought multiple copies or bought the game but haven’t played it yet).

Likewise, 957 of the 142,000 registered users at True Trophies have played S3, which works out at about 634,000 copies played across the whole of PSN (again, not accounting for multiple copies or people who are yet to play).

Edit: 1,900 of the users on PSN Trophy Leaders have played Shenmue. Unfortunately it’s a little difficult to gage the exact number of active users due to their leaderboards being populated by a lot of people with 0 trophies, but even if the accounts that have never actually played a game are included and all 566,000 users are used in our calculation, we still end up with 316,000 PS4 players when applying the same ratio to active PSN users.
 
Last edited:
People need to stop pointing to digital sales. If it's 17th in uk physical charts, it's not going to be magically 2nd in digital charts.

Nobody is saying that. We are saying that if Digital matches or exceed the Physical performance then that is quite rosy.

For example we know there's been around 20K copies sold physically in Japan at this point. If that's 40K with digital included, from one region, that's pretty good going.

Let's say we need 200K copies for a chance at SIV, then that 40K is 20% of the target from one region. That's why we're so interested.

Seeing as PC sales can only be digital ...that's a pretty big deal too
 
@Gjb1985 we've been having the odd issue with this on our end.

When posting check the text box to make sure any residual posts aren't there and I'll talk to the web guru.
 
People need to stop pointing to digital sales. If it's 17th in uk physical charts, it's not going to be magically 2nd in digital charts.
That's not how it works at all.


I dont think anyone's saying digital sales will magically bump up the numbers like crazy. They're just saying dont ignore digital sales like they dont exist because clearly people are buying digital more and more now.

Also, like I said, video game companies just didnt make it a habit releasing their P&L and dev costs in the 90's for their games. It just wasn't done as the norm.
 
Nobody is saying that. We are saying that if Digital matches or exceed the Physical performance then that is quite rosy.

For example we know there's been around 20K copies sold physically in Japan at this point. If that's 40K with digital included, from one region, that's pretty good going.

Let's say we need 200K copies for a chance at SIV, then that 40K is 20% of the target from one region. That's why we're so interested.

Seeing as PC sales can only be digital ...that's a pretty big deal too
In Japan most sales are still not digital. It's the opposite though in Europe, where there're countries like UK where 80% is digital vs 20% retail. The same more or less in the USA.
 
Epic is currently operating at loss because they have that goldmine called Fortnite. The game is literally financing the Epic Store, which may therefore work at loss in order to reach a certain amount of registered users. Just to give a rough idea... They paid Remedy about 10 million US dollars for the exclusivity of Control. Now... I doubt Control on Epic Store sold that much (consider also that Epic keeps a very small share of the money), but at the moment they just want to get more players to download and register on the store. That's the reason behind this strategy.


Not to mention they paid out 3 million to that 16 yr old kid for winning the Fortnite tournament
 
Hadn’t heard of Gamstat before, but if you want to test it I’d search other games released around a similar time frame and see how they compare. I see the new Monkey Ball Port only has 6,000 (flop!) players—so much for a new RGG entry. Death Stranding has over a million. I dunno. Seems like it could be pretty accurate...Medievil is at abojt 200,000, but it was sold for under $30 iirc—easy to get more players. All the same, I’m surprised a remake of a fairly old PSOne game would move that many units.

Now, I agree 75K+ backed Shenmue but you have casual fans, nonfans and people who are too busy to start a new game In a month packed with huge new releases. I can easily see why many didn’t earn their “first trophy,” which seems to be how this site counts users.

All in all, I feel it might be at least somewhat accurate.
 
Last edited:
Hadn’t heard of Gamstat before, but if you want to test it I’d search other games released around a similar time frame and see how they compare. I see the new Monkey Ball Port only has 6,000 (flop!) players—so much for a new RGG entry. Death Stranding has over a million. I dunno. Seems like it could be pretty accurate...Medievil is at abojt 200,000, but it was sold for under $30 iirc—easy to get more players. All the same, I’m surprised a remake of a fairly old PSOne game would move that many units.

Now, I agree 75K+ backed Shenmue but you have casual fans, nonfans and people who are too busy to start a new game In a month packed with huge new releases. I can easily see why many didn’t earn their “first trophy,” which seems to be how this site counts users.
Game Stat is supposedly using a sample size of 7 million, which works out at 7.5% of the total number of active PSN users (people who have taken their accounts online in the past 12 months - which is 94m according to Sony).

For Game Stat to come up with an estimate of 24,000 users, they should have found 1,787 people with at least one S3 trophy in their sample group of 7m.

This is certainly possible, but given that 1,900 users out of the 566,000 users on PSN Trophy leaders have at least one Shenmue 3 trophy, it casts a lot of doubt on the reliability of Game Stats data.

Users on PSN Trophy Leaders are more than 10 times as likely to have played S3 than the sample group selected by Game Stat. The same can be said for figures taken from other sites that track trophies as per my post above.

Either Shenmue 3 is very popular with trophy hunters (this seems very unlikely given how grindy some of the trophies are and that the game is still at full price in most territories) or Game Stat’s figures are wrong.
 
But if you analyze better known or games we know have sold well, the numbers seem to make sense. Try to compare to other new releases.
 
But if you analyze better known or games we know have sold well, the numbers seem to make sense. Try to compare to other new releases.
Over longer periods of time and when dealing with larger numbers/chances, these figures can actually be very accurate. Unfortunately, when dealing with smaller numbers/chances they can be wildly inaccurate.

Imagine a group of 100 people. I think that some of them may have a rare illness (in fact, there are 3 of them, but I don’t know this). The illness is very difficult and expensive to test for and so I can only test 7 of the 100 people. These seven people are my sample group.

The chances of me randomly selecting none of the sick people in my sample group is around 80% and this result would suggest that there were 0 sick people in the full group. This is of course wrong, as there are actually 3.

The chances of me finding 1 sick person is around 18% and this result would suggest that there were 14 sick people in the full group. We again have an inaccurate result that massively overestimates the number of sick people.

Selecting 2 (1.5% -> 29 sick people) or 3 (x<1% -> 43 sick people) of the sick people in my sample group provides even more ridiculous results. Regardless of how the chances play out, our results are wrong with the most likely outcome (80% or so) being us underestimating the actual number.

Using a larger sample group certainly helps to improve the reliability of these results, but when dealing with low probabilities, these types of calculation will never be reliable (unless perhaps your sample group covers 50% or so of the total population).

Game Stat are dealing with a sample group that represents a similar proportion of the full group in the above example (7/100 vs 7m/94m) and, if Shenmue 3 sold 100,000 copies or less on PS4, a much much lower probability (0.1% vs the 3%).

As I said in my last post, aside from the methodology being seriously flawed, the figures available on similar sites cast some real doubt on the reliability of the data.

The chances of PSN Trophy Leader finding more Shenmue 3 players in their user base of less than 600,000 than Game Stat found in a sample size of 7,000,000 are incalculably low. Of course, the PSN Trophy Leader stats could be wrong, but aside from being very unlikely in and of itself as we can literally see the PSN usernames of all of the players tracked as having played Shenmue 3 and the full list of users, their data is also backed up by similar data from two other trophy sites.

Edit: It’s also worth nothing that there was a short period last December where Sony accidentally gave out the exact number of people who had obtained each trophy through their my PS life app. These figures, along with the percentage of users who had obtained each trophy which has always been available, could be used to calculate a very precise figure for the total number of registered players of any given game.

Game Stat was built around that system and so figures for a lot of older games (released pre December 2018) are pretty on the nose whereas games released after are estimated using their current sampling system and are at the mercy of its many flaws.
 
Last edited:
Today its happening a promotion event in China and Yu Suzuki is there. I hope it can help the sales.

Also I saw some Shenmue ads on the Subway here in my city (Sao Paulo). Very nice too see all of this happening.


So its finally releasing in China? Or it was already released there?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top