Shenmue 4 discussion

Reprise said:
It always astounds me how many people assume or want the Shenmue saga to end with Ryo killing Lan Di.
Click to expand...

Flew right over their heads... the general populace can't grasp the depth and meanings/connotations that Suzuki has clearly been trying to implement, since the beginning.

darksniper said:
Yeah that whole story of Ryo forgiving Lan Di for what he did and giving up on the idea makes no sense to me. As for many of us here, a lot of life events has happened between Shenmue II up to now as we were teenagers ourselves and now some of us are parents. But one thing that remained the same then and now is if someone were to murder my mother or father in front of me, I'd have no other choice but to get revenge and make the killer pay for their actions. I feel stronger about that now than I did back then.

I still think it's kind of crazy that Ryo's journey so far is basically summarized in one phrase "Get over it".
Click to expand...

I have never had thoughts or feelings like this and I never will.

If the above ever happened (*knocks on wood*, God forbid), I would want the swiftest justice imaginable; the cops come, arrest, speedy trial, prison for life in solitary (as we don't have death penalty in Canada).

Then the ****** would be considerably more miserable and lonely, etc., than he ever could be dead.

Real1 said:
My hope is that SEGA and Suzuki re-unite for Shenmue IV. That would be so sweet. SEGA must see the potential by now after seeing the KS results...
Click to expand...

This is what I'm expecting as well; just a gut feeling (I have 0 evidence of thinking this way).

Especially if it is a success, I think they'll inject some funds into development for the next game or two OR, Ys Net enters into a deal with Sega, becoming a 2nd party dev. to work on other titles and 'mue.
 
I'd like Sega to get involved as well, but I'm sure Deep Silver would want to hold on to Shenmue if Shenmue III is a success. I doubt they picked it up assuming it'd be just one title, but rather an asset to their growing library of franchises.
 
Real1 said:
Something hit me today... Will Yu Suzuki keep the Shenmue licence after 3 or will he have to fight for it again? :hmm:
Click to expand...

From what I remember, Yu Suzuki said obtaining a license was not difficult at all. If you think about it, Shenmue Online was being developed independently so I would assume as long as there is no loss to SEGA or anything that could harm their reputation, I don't see why not.


I don't know what kind of agreement YS has with SEGA but considering he apparently has access to all these assets, music, title, I would assume that it's not limited to one game but I don't want to speculate, that website might have more info.

Most companies have some sort of clause that anything developed under company time belongs to them but sometimes agreements allow certain access to those assets. Additionally it's not just Shenmue being licensed but Unreal Engine 4 is also under license which has it's own terms.
 
Last edited:
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
Flew right over their heads... the general populace can't grasp the depth and meanings/connotations that Suzuki has clearly been trying to implement, since the beginning.



I have never had thoughts or feelings like this and I never will.

If the above ever happened (*knocks on wood*, God forbid), I would want the swiftest justice imaginable; the cops come, arrest, speedy trial, prison for life in solitary (as we don't have death penalty in Canada).

Then the ****** would be considerably more miserable and lonely, etc., than he ever could be dead.



This is what I'm expecting as well; just a gut feeling (I have 0 evidence of thinking this way).

Especially if it is a success, I think they'll inject some funds into development for the next game or two OR, Ys Net enters into a deal with Sega, becoming a 2nd party dev. to work on other titles and 'mue.
Click to expand...

I agree, I would love to see Sega back fully supporting Shenmue. At the very least allowing Yu Suzuki to use Sega cameos, character skins, arcades, etc. Also helping expand the Shenmue budget.
 
It still impresses me that Yu was able to get the license for Shenmue. I think about American companies and I can’t imagine that happening.

I also don’t see Sega putting anything into Shenmue 4. Unless 3 kills it in sales and gets stellar reviews, I think Sega is done with Shenmue.
 
Sega of America was responsible for most of Sega's better decisions in the '90s, unfortunately. Sega of Japan really fucked up a lot of stuff.
 
I recommend both of Ken Horowitz's books - "The Sega Arcade Revolution" (about the entire history of Sega's arcade endeavors since its inception) and "Playing at the Next Level" (primarily about Sega of America in the 90s) for a very detailed history of Sega and its myriad centers of operation. The TL;DR would be that it's a very complicated company and no one division is primarily responsible for most of its successes or most of its blunders.
 
I would really hesitate to place blame solely on Sega of Japan for Sega’s perceived and actual failures during the mid to late 90s. The management of the company is Japanese and Sega was performing horribly in Japan during that time. It must be incredibly disheartening for developers to watch their products succeed abroad with no one appreciating them domestically. The Saturn did phenomenally well in Japan compared to their previous hardware, and up until FFVII it was pretty close with the PlayStation. It was incredibly shortsighted for them to sacrifice the American and European markets for success in Japan, but it’s understandable, especially considering how little Japanese brands typically tailor their products around foreign demand. Furthermore, I think Sega of America was in short supply of talented employees during the Saturn era since many like Al Nilsen left for Viacom (I believe), and Sony was snatching up the others.

Instead of assuming Sega of America was packed with titans of industry and genius marketeers while Sega of Japan was jealously fiddling their thumbs and plotting the company’s downfall, I’d assert that Sega’s western success in the early 90s was more the perfect confluence of events and individuals (the creation of Sonic and other great software from the Japan-side, Kalinske and Nilsen’s solid marketing expertise on the Western-side) than any one branch being better than the other. With how Japanese businesses generally intertwine in complex partnerships, Nintendo controlled the entire home gaming industry within Japan during that time, which included trade shows and alliances with companies in supporting industries, and that made it very hard for Sega to promote their products to the extent they were able to in the American market. It took a company with the resources of Sony to break Nintendo’s hold on Japan, and that shouldn’t be a knock against Sega. If Sonic or other Mega Drive software had more broad appeal within Japan, as Virtua Fighter on the Saturn did, maybe things may have worked out similarly to how it did in the United States and Europe.
 
SakuraTaisen said:
I would really hesitate to place blame solely on Sega of Japan for Sega’s perceived and actual failures during the mid to late 90s. The management of the company is Japanese and Sega was performing horribly in Japan during that time. It must be incredibly disheartening for developers to watch their products succeed abroad with no one appreciating them domestically. The Saturn did phenomenally well in Japan compared to their previous hardware, and up until FFVII it was pretty close with the PlayStation. It was incredibly shortsighted for them to sacrifice the American and European markets for success in Japan, but it’s understandable, especially considering how little Japanese brands typically tailor their products around foreign demand. Furthermore, I think Sega of America was in short supply of talented employees during the Saturn era since many like Al Nilsen left for Viacom (I believe), and Sony was snatching up the others.

Instead of assuming Sega of America was packed with titans of industry and genius marketeers while Sega of Japan was jealously fiddling their thumbs and plotting the company’s downfall, I’d assert that Sega’s western success in the early 90s was more the perfect confluence of events and individuals (Sonic and other great software from the Japan-side, Kalinske and Nilsen’s solid marketing expertise on the Western-side) than any one branch being better than the other. With how Japanese businesses generally intertwine in complex partnerships, Nintendo controlled the entire home gaming industry within Japan during that time, which included trade shows and alliances with companies in supporting industries, and that made it very hard for Sega to promote their products to the extent they were able to in the American market. It took a company with the resources of Sony to break Nintendo’s hold on Japan, and that shouldn’t be a knock against Sega. If Sonic or other Mega Drive software was more broad appeal within Japan, as Virtua Fighter on the Saturn did, maybe things may have worked out similarly to how it did in the United States and Europe.
Click to expand...
Yep. My admittedly simplistic take is that both branches had their moments businesswise, and both had their moments of fucking over the other side. While the american branch is the one that really got them going in the console space with the Megadrive, they're also the one that royally fucked up the 5th gen and killed their momentum.
 
Dietsoap said:
Yep. My admittedly simplistic take is that both branches had their moments businesswise, and both had their moments of fucking over the other side. While the american branch is the one that really got them going in the console space with the Megadrive, they're also the one that royally fucked up the 5th gen and killed their momentum.
Click to expand...

How did they fuck each other over?
 
BruceWayne911 said:
How did they fuck each other over?
Click to expand...
I’m assuming he’s referring to SoJ quashing potential deals with Sony and Silicon Graphics on the Japanese side. Also SoJ pulling access to the NiGHTS engine from the Sonic Xtreme devs is commonly cited as a petty move. Though I am personally glad Sonic Xtreme never came out, as it would have looked horrible next to Mario 64.

For SoA, I guess their hesitance to move on from the Mega Drive led to the 32X could be seen as fucking Japan over, though it really ended up fucking them both. Though the 32X was a compromise from SoA in response to Japan’s initial plan for a separate “half-step” console for the American market. So that would have been even worse. It depends on whether or not Japan knew SoA didn’t want the Saturn right away when proposing that idea to determine whether or not it was ultimately SoJ or SoA’s fault.
 
SakuraTaisen said:
I’m assuming he’s referring to SoJ quashing potential deals with Sony and Silicon Graphics on the Japanese side. Also SoJ pulling access to the NiGHTS engine from the Sonic Xtreme devs is commonly cited as a petty move. Though I am personally glad Sonic Xtreme never came out, as it would have looked horrible next to Mario 64.

For SoA, I guess their hesitance to move on from the Mega Drive led to the 32X could be seen as fucking Japan over, though it really ended up fucking them both. Though the 32X was a compromise from SoA in response to Japan’s initial plan for a separate “half-step” console for the American market. So that would have been even worse. It depends on whether or not Japan knew SoA didn’t want the Saturn right away when proposing that idea to determine whether or not it was ultimately SoJ or SoA’s fault.
Click to expand...

I thought the Japanese guys were the head honchos
 
BruceWayne911 said:
I thought the Japanese guys were the head honchos
Click to expand...
Yeah, they were. Tom Kalinske did have a lot of sway with Nakayama however, so it is possible that Sega of America’s influence was felt more than usual in Japan due to that and their increased earnings.
 
SakuraTaisen said:
I would really hesitate to place blame solely on Sega of Japan for Sega’s perceived and actual failures during the mid to late 90s. The management of the company is Japanese and Sega was performing horribly in Japan during that time. It must be incredibly disheartening for developers to watch their products succeed abroad with no one appreciating them domestically. The Saturn did phenomenally well in Japan compared to their previous hardware, and up until FFVII it was pretty close with the PlayStation. It was incredibly shortsighted for them to sacrifice the American and European markets for success in Japan, but it’s understandable, especially considering how little Japanese brands typically tailor their products around foreign demand. Furthermore, I think Sega of America was in short supply of talented employees during the Saturn era since many like Al Nilsen left for Viacom (I believe), and Sony was snatching up the others.

Instead of assuming Sega of America was packed with titans of industry and genius marketeers while Sega of Japan was jealously fiddling their thumbs and plotting the company’s downfall, I’d assert that Sega’s western success in the early 90s was more the perfect confluence of events and individuals (the creation of Sonic and other great software from the Japan-side, Kalinske and Nilsen’s solid marketing expertise on the Western-side) than any one branch being better than the other. With how Japanese businesses generally intertwine in complex partnerships, Nintendo controlled the entire home gaming industry within Japan during that time, which included trade shows and alliances with companies in supporting industries, and that made it very hard for Sega to promote their products to the extent they were able to in the American market. It took a company with the resources of Sony to break Nintendo’s hold on Japan, and that shouldn’t be a knock against Sega. If Sonic or other Mega Drive software had more broad appeal within Japan, as Virtua Fighter on the Saturn did, maybe things may have worked out similarly to how it did in the United States and Europe.
Click to expand...

When I was growing up, I had a Sega Genesis/mega drive but compared to Nintendo, it was very uncommon in my area for kids to have a genesis. Even Sega channel was very limited and we were unable to get it in our area.

By the time of Sega Saturn, I barely knew about it because it was not marketed as much as the PlayStation and Nintendo 64, I think I saw one or two ads and they were really strange. I don’t think I ever saw a Sega Saturn for sale anywhere except in a magazine ad and it was very expensive for the titles available.

By the time the Dreamcast was sold in the US, I saw literally no advertising for it until after it was released. I saw it being marketed at a mall and you could win them at a Chuck E. Cheese if you had enough tickets, but it was just a very strange generational gap because you had the n64, the PlayStation and the ps2 was being hyped for release with the Xbox far off and to top things off, by the time I would have had the money to buy one, the Dreamcast was effectively killed fast, I ended up getting an Xbox because you could not even find a Dreamcast over here, I had to borrow one from a friend which sadly he did not have Shenmue.

I was already aware of Shenmues existence by the time the 2nd game was being prepared for release in Europe because a friend had told me about it and so the idea of buying a system that you couldn’t really find, that had support cut off, and a game with a sequel that literally wasn’t available and was unknown if it would be at any point just made it very difficult, the only way I could learn about shenmue was reading about it and waiting for the Xbox release and later on buying a used Dreamcast and the first game in reverse order.

In regards to Sega, they always had very innovative technology that was way ahead of the competition in many ways such as the concept of Sega cd, blast processing, and even concepts of the Saturn and Dreamcast, the main issue was that at some point their marketing outside of some amazing genesis commercials and the Dreamcast commercials, the products were not always easy to find and even many of the products not even being available in the US. Perfect examples I can think of were the limited yakuza releases in Japan and also many games on Sega channel that were never released in the US and the lack of release of future phantasy star online outside of Japan. I think I’ve always seen Sega from the outside as this really innovative company that has kind of kept outsiders staring in awe and feeling kind of alienated.
 
pilman said:
When I was growing up, I had a Sega Genesis/mega drive but compared to Nintendo, it was very uncommon in my area for kids to have a genesis. Even Sega channel was very limited and we were unable to get it in our area.

By the time of Sega Saturn, I barely knew about it because it was not marketed as much as the PlayStation and Nintendo 64, I think I saw one or two ads and they were really strange. I don’t think I ever saw a Sega Saturn for sale anywhere except in a magazine ad and it was very expensive for the titles available.

By the time the Dreamcast was sold in the US, I saw literally no advertising for it until after it was released. I saw it being marketed at a mall and you could win them at a Chuck E. Cheese if you had enough tickets, but it was just a very strange generational gap because you had the n64, the PlayStation and the ps2 was being hyped for release with the Xbox far off and to top things off, by the time I would have had the money to buy one, the Dreamcast was effectively killed fast, I ended up getting an Xbox because you could not even find a Dreamcast over here, I had to borrow one from a friend which sadly he did not have Shenmue.

I was already aware of Shenmues existence by the time the 2nd game was being prepared for release in Europe because a friend had told me about it and so the idea of buying a system that you couldn’t really find, that had support cut off, and a game with a sequel that literally wasn’t available and was unknown if it would be at any point just made it very difficult, the only way I could learn about shenmue was reading about it and waiting for the Xbox release and later on buying a used Dreamcast and the first game in reverse order.

In regards to Sega, they always had very innovative technology that was way ahead of the competition in many ways such as the concept of Sega cd, blast processing, and even concepts of the Saturn and Dreamcast, the main issue was that at some point their marketing outside of some amazing genesis commercials and the Dreamcast commercials, the products were not always easy to find and even many of the products not even being available in the US. Perfect examples I can think of were the limited yakuza releases in Japan and also many games on Sega channel that were never released in the US and the lack of release of future phantasy star online outside of Japan. I think I’ve always seen Sega from the outside as this really innovative company that has kind of kept outsiders staring in awe and feeling kind of alienated.
Click to expand...

You know that's all bulshit, right? It was a term coined for marketing (to say that only because of, "blast processing," can Sonic move that fast), to show that the Genesis could outperform the NES in the speed department.

It wasn't just innovation, it was the fact that these were grassroots developers, coming up with new technologies, methods and techniques that were beneficial for the videogame world; its why Suzuki, Naka, Oshima, Kodama are so highly-regarded: because they were lightyears ahead of their time, on the tech side of things (hell, Naka created an emulator of NES games, on the Genesis, in 1989 simply by reverse-engineering and picking up on the code. Just ridiculous). Then on the business side, you had wonderful marketers like Kalinske and Nilsen (as mentioned) in the US, Nakayama was great for the JP side and Rosen was a fair and shrewd businessman; when he was involved with the major decisions, the company thrived. The problem with Sega was that they didn't (collectively) know how to stay at the top; same thing happened with WCW. Getting to the top is a great thing, but staying involves different strategies and different ways of thinking.

When you can't transition, that's when things can come crumbling down and since Ninty were their first, despite their inferior product, they had the assets and the backup to get back to the top... and they did.
 
Something I found odd was that both Sega of Japan and Sega of America were developing their own version of what would become the dreamcast at the same time. It seems like at times they basically acted as independent companies.
 
Truck_1_0_1_ said:
You know that's all bulshit, right? It was a term coined for marketing (to say that only because of, "blast processing," can Sonic move that fast), to show that the Genesis could outperform the NES in the speed department.
Click to expand...

Well... not exactly... as it turns out, blast processing actually was a real function of the MD/Gen which allowed it to display its entire color palette in a single, still, full-screen image. However, it wasn't particularly useful for games. But marketing did pick up the term and misconstrue its meaning to imply fast gameplay, because it is an awesome-sounding phrase. Digital Foundry did a video with a demo of the real blast processing this past March:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top